Edward Snowden and you: liberty or blissful ignorance?

What do you think about Snowden's actions?

  • It needed to be done - the government is overstepping its bounds.

    Votes: 25 92.6%
  • His actions were illegal -the programs are in place to combat crime and we don't need to fear them.

    Votes: 2 7.4%

  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
This short clip was indeed worth of watching. I couldn't have summed my thoughts better.

Agreed - someone who is a 'journalist' should place a high value on words and their meanings ... 'aid and abet' is a legal term of art. People using it on Facebook is one thing ... but a so-called journalist?

Worse yet, there was a real question he could have asked - "by aiding someone who as admitted to committing a felony, are you concerned about being subject to criminal investigation yourself"?
 
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Edward Snowden's actions have been courageous and bold and brave - from my point of view. As many of you, I live in Denmark. The ISPs have been ordered by law to obtain and hide all communication via the internet, over the mobile/cell phone system as well as the land line system (traditionel phone system). The basis for this is an EU-directive from 10 years back or so.....

When I log on to RPGWatch the time is noted, how long my stay is, and when I lock out again. Also the name of the site RPGWatch is noted. When I use my cell phone, the time is noted, where I am when I'm using it, who am I calling and how long the call is/was. And the number I'm calling is also noted.

So what Snowden has uncovered re: the USA's surveillance of the citizens and people of USA we have known for many, many years in Denmark - as well as the rest of Europe (EU).
 
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There are some big differences. In europe the ISP and phone companies are responsible for storage of the data that identifies things like the users and the time of the communication. The content of the communication does not have to be stored. Data has to be stored for a minimum of 6 months and a maximum of 2 years.
Naional implementations of this can be different throughout Europe though.
 
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So what Snowden has uncovered re: the USA's surveillance of the citizens and people of USA we have known for many, many years in Denmark - as well as the rest of Europe (EU).

In Germany that kind of surveillance caused quite an uproar among the people and was ultimately overturned by the Federal Constitutional Court. So no, not all of Europe.
 
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The local newspaper reports that Germany has seen the far highest rate of "filtering" meanwhile "anglo-american partners" have been "untouched", and several countries surrounding Germany have seen far less "filtering".

Everyone assums now that Germany is considered as a brooding point of anti-american terrorism.
 
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Well, the 9-11 guys did plan from Germany. So I have no problem at all with the USA keeping taps on certain groups and potential hotbeds of radical Islam within Germany. And I am positive our government and secret service are quite willing to support any such investigations.
However that does NOT cover blanket filtering of billions of calls and emails, and it CERTAINLY doesn't covers spying on EU institutions and similar. I am rather pro-American, but this really annoys me. USA: you are not playing nice. Maybe you don't feel you need to, but there's a price to pay for that.
 
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It amuses me that people always act so shocked when information leaks on the USA spying on other countries, or Britain's MI5 spying on G20 members. Those are just the agencies that got caught :) Everyone spy's on everyone, and I can pretty much guarantee that individual EU member-state's intelligence agencies are spying on the US, the UK, and on other EU member-states. To think otherwise, would be naive. They just haven't had leakers coming forward about their activities yet :). Remember Anna Chapman and that whole Russian spy-ring that got busted a few years ago? Just think of all the similar programs spying programs that have not been found.
 
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And it amuses me that one of the first comments in any comment section on such will always be a guy that says "Ha, everybody knew it, don't be naive". My answer is no: there are very important differences is the quality and scope of what "everybody does" and what is and was done here, and I believe the differences are highly relvant.
 
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^One of those times where I wish we had a +1 button.
 
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Have you heard of several European countries not allowing the President of Bolivia to fly over their countries because of a RUMOR Mr. Snowden could be in his machine ?

After 13 hours forcedd at the ground in Austria, with Austrian policepersons (?) inspecting the airplane, he could move on.

Full South America is now severely pissed off. They're gonna hate half Europe plus the U.S. for that.

According to the British newspaper The Guardian (which I usually trust), the U.S. indeed tried to stop him : http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/edward-snowden-asylum-live

Reactions : http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/03/bolivian-president-morales-latin-america

As a kind of "thank you" they are now offering him Asylum : http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/06/venezuela-nicaragua-offer-asylum-edward-snowden



Meanwhile, elsewhere in the U.K. … : http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk-news/2013/jul/06/home-office-police-childrens-identities-lambert
 
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Full South America is now severely pissed off. They're gonna hate half Europe plus the U.S. for that.

So nothing new there :). The reason that these European governments are not helping Snowden, is because they are doing the same kinds of things that the NSA are doing. They only act shocked and morally outraged in public to look good to voters. Imagine if they go out of their way to help Snowden, and then a leaker comes forward about one of their spy programs? They would look like total buffoons.
 
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So nothing new there :). The reason that these European governments are not helping Snowden, is because they are doing the same kinds of things that the NSA are doing. They only act shocked and morally outraged in public to look good to voters. Imagine if they go out of their way to help Snowden, and then a leaker comes forward about one of their spy programs? They would look like total buffoons.

Sounds about right.
By law (in Sweden) all communication that goes across the border is fair game for the FRA (The radio Agency of the Defence, roughly translated), that means just about all internet-traffic in Sweden and I'm sure that they spy more than that. The big Thing was that the US spied on the top levels of the EU, that's crossing the line. Imagine if a country in Europe had installed a bug in the oval office, what kind of uproar could we expect then.
 
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I have little doubt that EU members are spying on the US, and on each-other. They just have not been caught yet :).
 
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