SW:TOR - No Homosexuality

pibbur · May 1, 2009

DArtagnan said:
... Then, they're weak for "caving in" as you say.

But they're not forced, they're letting themselves be manipulated - which means they're either weak because they give up - or their original stance was so weak that they don't mind changing it, because they "didn't really mean it".

...

Another way to interprete it is that they saw the error of their ways, that they listened to reason. Which is not weakness, I think.

Prime Junta · May 1, 2009

Oxlar said:
Uh, NO. Any gay person can blend in and live thier lives just fine without going all flaming pro in your face homo pollitical agenda on everyone. When your black and your neighbors are burning crosses and looking for a new 'example' during the next cross burning, you can't simply blend. When the SS went hunting jews in the streets, the jews didn't have the option of not being 'jewish' in appearance. And more importantly, blacks and jews were being killed because of their race, one of which was the government doing the extermination. Your comparing the plight of gay people, not being able to advocate gay lifestyles on a private message board to the extermination of the jews or slavery. Get f'n real.

Hitler *did* attempt to exterminate gays as well, you know. Jews suffered discrimination in almost all countries, including the US -- there were clubs that wouldn't accept them, employers that wouldn't hire them, people that wouldn't do business with them. Unless, of course, they converted to Christianity or kept a low enough profile that people didn't realize they were Jews. I'm sure there were plenty of people arguing that Jews are just fine, as long as they don't advertise their Jewish lifestyle in public. In fact, it's a pretty close analogy.

I'm all for live and let live. But I also don't want this lifestyle being advertised and flaunted to my daughter. If she grows up to be gay, then thats fine. But I prefer man and wife, mother and father, family values to be the influence for my daughter's life.

Let me fix that for you:

I'm all for live and let live. But I also don't want this lifestyle being advertised and flaunted to my daughter. If she ends up dating a Negro, then thats fine. But I prefer the idea that whites marry whites and Negroes marry Negroes to be the influence for my daughter's life.

There, that's better.

The fed should not get involved. Thats what our federalist system was meant to handle. The local governments are allowed to conform to the desires of its local population, and if you don't like your local policies then move some place that is more in line with your values. Unfortunately, the fed has completely overstepped its power and has taken this away from local governments.

Yup, "state rights" was a code word during the civil rights debate too. Racists opposed to desegregation argued that the Fed had no business getting involved, and states should be able to make blacks ride at the back of the bus if the majority so decided.

Really, you're making this way too easy for me -- you're a beautiful, living demonstration of the strength of my little analogy.

And also going into the bigot bin (and my ignore list). Plonk!

JemyM · May 1, 2009

Oxlar said:
If she grows up to be gay, then thats fine. But I prefer man and wife, mother and father, family values to be the influence for my daughter's life.

You can push all the "values" you like, but nature picks sexuality, not you, just like nature will decide whether your child is lefthanded, nearsighted, color-blind, have Asperger Syndrome or any other biological trait. Woman+Man have nothing to do with "family values", you are just calling nature "values".

Oxlar · May 1, 2009

Prime Junta said:
Hitler *did* attempt to exterminate gays as well, you know. Jews suffered discrimination in almost all countries, including the US -- there were clubs that wouldn't accept them, employers that wouldn't hire them, people that wouldn't do business with them. Unless, of course, they converted to Christianity or kept a low enough profile that people didn't realize they were Jews. I'm sure there were plenty of people arguing that Jews are just fine, as long as they don't advertise their Jewish lifestyle in public. In fact, it's a pretty close analogy.

Let me fix that for you:

There, that's better.

Yup, "state rights" was a code word during the civil rights debate too. Racists opposed to desegregation argued that the Fed had no business getting involved, and states should be able to make blacks ride at the back of the bus if the majority so decided.

Really, you're making this way too easy for me -- you're a beautiful, living demonstration of the strength of my little analogy.

And also going into the bigot bin (and my ignore list). Plonk!

F&$% you Prime! I said what I said. Deal with it. Changing my statements to make an argument for you is complete and utter BS. Quote me or don't. But altering my words in a sad attempt to paint me as something I'm not does not prove any point you may think your making.

How about you actually discuss the points I make instead of pretending I said something else. Oh yeah, it sure is easy to win an argument when its all in your head and you can pretend your opposition is saying whatever you want them to say. But its so much easier to yell at your make believe counterpoints and then run away.

Oxlar · May 1, 2009

JemyM said:
You can push all the "values" you like, but nature picks sexuality, not you, just like nature will decide whether your child is lefthanded, nearsighted, color-blind, have Asperger Syndrome or any other biological trait. Woman+Man have nothing to do with "family values", you are just calling nature "values".

Actually I believe its a both nature and nurture. While I do believe that a small percentage of the population is 'built' with those genetic dispositions, I also believe that our environment can promulgate a much higher artifical number. When our culture celebrates and advertises the gay lifestyle, it becomes an identity. And when many young people are lost without an idea of their identity, they can be susceptible to alternate lifestyles. You may think thats great! The more gay people, the merrier. I do not. That is my choice and that is the choice I will make in raising my daughter. If she has that genetic code, then there is nothing I can do about it. But don't tell me that our society does not have any impact on the number of gay people.

Hedek · May 1, 2009

I play MMOs to have a break from real life issues. For an hour or two, I become the character I play, and my only concerns are how am I going to save a fictional galaxy from an imminent threat.

Whenever someone brings something in game that reminds me of real life, it bothers me. Be it tax, tv, pro gay activism, or gay discrimination. I agree with Bioware's attempt to totally occlude this issue. That's not the right attitude in real life, one has to face problems and solve them, but in games I feel it's necessary otherwise games lose their purpose. I don't want games to be political, or advance a social agenda.

And this whole "we defend our rights and fight against discrimination wherever we find it" really annoys me. Politics have invaded every inch of our lives, even home conversations often derive towards political issues. For the love of all that is sane please keep video games out of this.

Let them be the last haven or childiishness, innocence and mindless stupidity. For my own sanity, I need such a break from time to time, and if not in video games where else can I find it?

I for one would prefer games to have neither straight nor gay people, and only fictional races. I always found in game romances kind of stupid and embarrassing at best, might as well get rid of them altogether if they simply become arguments for pro and anti gay discussions.

JemyM · May 1, 2009

Oxlar said:
Actually I believe its a both nature and nurture. While I do believe that a small percentage of the population is 'built' with those genetic dispositions, I also believe that our environment can promulgate a much higher artifical number. When our culture celebrates and advertises the gay lifestyle, it becomes an identity. And when many young people are lost without an idea of their identity, they can be susceptible to alternate lifestyles. You may think thats great! The more gay people, the merrier. I do not. That is my choice and that is the choice I will make in raising my daughter. If she has that genetic code, then there is nothing I can do about it. But don't tell me that our society does not have any impact on the number of gay people.

My best explanation of your situation is that you are a bisexual. People who are Hetero- or Homo- know that there's no such thing as choice or "lifestyle", but I can see that bisexuality can be very confusing.

Oxlar · May 1, 2009

Hedek said:
I play MMOs to have a break from real life issues. For an hour or two, I become the character I play, and my only concerns are how am I going to save a fictional galaxy from an imminent threat.

Whenever someone brings something in game that reminds me of real life, it bothers me. Be it tax, tv, pro gay activism, or gay discrimination. I agree with Bioware's attempt to totally occlude this issue. That's not the right attitude in real life, one has to face problems and solve them, but in games I feel it's necessary otherwise games lose their purpose. I don't want games to be political, or advance a social agenda.

And this whole "we defend our rights and fight against discrimination wherever we find it" really annoys me. Politics have invaded every inch of our lives, even home conversations often derive towards political issues. For the love of all that is sane please keep video games out of this.

Let them be the last haven or childiishness, innocence and mindless stupidity. For my own sanity, I need such a break from time to time, and if not in video games where else can I find it?

I for one would prefer games to have neither straight nor gay people, and only fictional races. I always found in game romances kind of stupid and embarrassing at best, might as well get rid of them altogether if they simply become arguments for pro and anti gay discussions.

I completely agree Hedek. My preference would be that sexuality and non fantasy racial associations are not present in such games at all.

Oxlar · May 1, 2009

JemyM said:
My best explanation of your situation is that you are a bisexual. People who are Hetero- or Homo- know that there's no such thing as choice or "lifestyle", but I can see that bisexuality can be very confusing.

Actually, according to many professional psychologists, male bisexuality is a myth. Your either straight or gay and living as a 'bisexual' male is simply a lie.

However, your reply didn't really address anything I said, so I don't get why you even quoted me.

JemyM · May 1, 2009

Oxlar said:
Actually, according to many professional psychologists, male bisexuality is a myth. Your either straight or gay and living as a 'bisexual' male is simply a lie. However, your reply didn't really address anything I said, so I don't get why you even quoted me.

4th edition of DSM claims no such thing and as a psychology student that's what I rely on.

Ubereil · May 1, 2009

nessosin said:
True, theres no denying that. Thats why you wont find me amongst those who want to hunt down people who are different than majority in whatever way they are. There are just few things I would protest (like giving ability to adopt children to homosexual couples) and the rest? I dont care, its their life; live and let live.

Why shouldn't homosexuals be allowed to adopt?

Oxlar said:
And when many young people are lost without an idea of their identity, they can be susceptible to alternate lifestyles. You may think thats great! The more gay people, the merrier. I do not.

Why not?

Übereil

wolfgrimdark · May 1, 2009

Oxlar said:
Actually, according to many professional psychologists, male bisexuality is a myth. Your either straight or gay and living as a 'bisexual' male is simply a lie.

However, your reply didn't really address anything I said, so I don't get why you even quoted me.

As another person involved in Psychology I will also back up that this isn't true either. Sexuality is on a scale for the most part.

Discrimination is discrimination regardless of whether it is against gender, race, religion or sexual orienatation.

Kinda sad this person, who faces it, also denies it.

Prime Junta · May 1, 2009

The nice thing is that I think there has been a sea change in culture. Homophobia is no longer socially acceptable, even if attitudes persist. This follows the same pattern as racism, sexism, or any other discriminatory patterns that used to be dominant but no longer are. The bigots have become a shrill minority rather than setting the tone and parameters of the discourse.

There was a bit of a flap recently when a pastor in the Finnish state church came out as a transsexual and went through a sex change operation -- and was supported rather than kicked out by the church as an institution and his (now her) parishioners as a group.

I have a feeling it'll be easier going for LGBT's from here on out, at least in most of the Western world.

Oxlar · May 2, 2009

Its funny how those who are pro gay agenda preach tolerance, yet they cannot tolerate any veiwpoint other than their own. My education, experiences, and morality determine my disposition towards homosexuality. I have said nothing derogatory about homosexuality. This reminds me of this whole perez hilton and miss cali fiasco. Its unfortunate how its 'my way' only mentality with you folks. You think its discriminatory to have any other opinion. Well tough. I am in no way discriminating, as I am not condoning any constitutional rights being supressed for homosexuals. And simply having an opinion on such a matter that differs from you is not discrimination in its own right.

If a private company wants to refrain from sexuality being discussed within their medium, they should very well have that freedom to do so. Like someone said in a post above, it doesn't belong in the games. I don't want to escape this world only to go play in a fantasy world where all the pollitical bullcrap is being thrust upon me. Its a friggin game, let it stay that way.

"Kinda sad this person, who faces it, also denies it."

What are you implying?

JemyM · May 2, 2009

Oxlar said:
Its funny how those who are pro gay agenda preach tolerance, yet they cannot tolerate any veiwpoint other than their own.

Disrespecting people on features they cannot change and disrespecting "viewpoints" are two completely different things.

And by the way; when you refer to marriage between man and woman "family values", you insult everyone who ever been in love.

Oxlar · May 2, 2009

JemyM said:
Disrespecting people on features they cannot change and disrespecting "viewpoints" are two completely different things.

And by the way; when you refer to marriage between man and woman "family values", you insult everyone who ever been in love.

Thats my freedom and perogative to do so. You do not get to dictate to me how I veiw the world around me. And the simple fact that others are willing to berate me for having my own personal viewpoint on the matter that differs from yours only proves my point about intolerance from the pro gay agenda crowd. You need to suck it up and deal with the fact that its ok for people to have the freedom to view the world and their environment as they see fit. Your assumed job as a thought police agent is more of an insult.

Your over dramatics and theatrical assumption of me insulting everyone who has ever been in love is laughable. Puhleeze. Perhaps you whould make a poll and ask that question and go canvas the streets for a couple months to find out what the percentage is of those who would be insulted by that statement. I would hasten to say your off the reservation on your assumption.

Ubereil · May 2, 2009

Oxlar, if you have the right to say homosexuals aren't as good as heterosexuals, then we have the right to say that you're a bigot for saying homosexuals aren't as good as heterosexuals. You do have the right to say homosexuals aren't as good as heterosexuals. And we do have the right to say you're a bigot for saying so. Just don't cry about intolerance when you have such a hard time tolerating homosexuals. It's hypocricy.

And what do you have against homosexuals anyway? If they want to live with pepole of their own gender instead of pepole of the other gender, then what's the big deal? What is the big deal?

Übereil

Thoth · May 2, 2009

Star Wars is a pretty boring setting. They just make up races and crap as they go along. I guess the old movies were good for their time, but the newer ones are atrocious.

JemyM · May 3, 2009

Oxlar said:
...

You have juridical right to your opinions, meaning you wont get jailed for them. You do not have cultural right to get respected for them. In fact, I second Ubereil's comment; we have all the right to both declare you a bigot who do not live up to the moral zeitgeist, and on top of that declare you a hypocrite for asking to be tolerated for being intolerant.

Ausir · May 3, 2009

Actually, according to many professional psychologists, male bisexuality is a myth. Your either straight or gay and living as a 'bisexual' male is simply a lie.

And according to many more psychologists, the "male bisexuality is a myth" meme is a myth.

SW:TOR - No Homosexuality

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