Kentucky Derby ethics

Kendrik said:

Everybody is entitled to live how they want but because these fish eaters call themsleves vegetarian then I get offered fish in a restaurant as the vegetarian alternative.

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And then to have to sit there in the same dining room with all those fish eaters actually eating actual fish. What a burden.

Thank goodness we're all entitled to live how we want, like you said, Kendrik. Otherwise, if we were all playing by different rules, it might get ugly.

Squeek said:

And then to have to sit there in the same dining room with all those fish eaters actually eating actual fish. What a burden.

Thank goodness we're all entitled to live how we want, like you said, Kendrik. Otherwise, if we were all playing by different rules, it might get ugly.

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Wow, yeah you kinda missed the point of my whole post but nevermind you got your "clever" reply in, enjoy. I think I'll stop posting for a bit again .. it's not like the old days.

Considering how your original comment was intolerant of the way restaurants often tolerate and accommodate your exceptional opinions about eating meat, I'm not surprised you don't like my rejection of your opinion either.

Squeek, Kendrick have said "vegetarian restaurants" so I can see his point. After all most restaurants aren't vegetarian so whoever fancies a fish supper can't complain over the lack of choice?

Indeed Kendrick. Isn't it interesting that even such an obvious (at least on the face of it) term like "vegatarian" means different things to different people? You have mentioned fish already but I was suprised to find out that a lot of Asians (Tamils, Hindus ect) consider themselfs vegetarians even though they eat chicken!

zahratustra said:

Squeek, Kendrick have said "vegetarian restaurants" so I can see his point. After all most restaurants aren't vegetarian so whoever fancies a fish supper can't complain over the lack of choice!

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Sorry, I don't understand.

Kendrick's point is a familiar one. I wasn't rejecting the point, I was rejecting the way it was made. I thought it was an ugly characterization of other people.

Back on topic, I watched some ESPN coverage of this story, and they're saying that this kind of tragedy is uncommon statistally and that the sport's had a run of bad luck.

A lot of people seem determined to take a close look at all this, though. It'll be interesting to hear what that determines.

I'm getting hungry reading this thread!

Here's a little bit more on the main topic, from the Washington Post, calling Eight Belles' breakdown the "symptom of a problem that is getting worse" :

But Eight Belles was a tragic manifestation of a problem that is more pronounced every year. America's breeding industry is producing increasingly fragile thoroughbreds. They may not break down, but they have shorter and shorter racing careers before going to stud to beget even more fragile offspring.

The facts are irrefutable. In 1960, the average U.S. racehorse made 11.3 starts per year. The number has fallen almost every year, and now the average U.S. thoroughbred races a mere 6.3 times per year. Almost every trainer whose career spans the decades will acknowledge that thoroughbreds aren't as robust as they used to be.

There are at least two good explanations for this phenomenon. In earlier eras, most people bred horses in order to race them, and they had a stake in the animals' soundness. By contrast, modern commercial breeders produce horses in order to sell them, and if those horses are unsound, they become somebody else's problem. Because buyers want horses with speed, breeders have filled the thoroughbred species with the genes of fast but unsound horses.

As this change in the breeding world took place, the sport was allowing the use of pain-killers and other medications that are forbidden in most other countries. They allow infirm horses to achieve success, go to stud and pass on their infirmities to the next generation.

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semanticly meat, poultry and fish are all different forms of animal meat.
i respect all animals but kendrik, here's the question--do kill kill spiders, do you swat mosquitos, drive a car whose grill impales many an insect? those are animals as well and to me i've choosen to not eat mammals for almost 5 years and haven't faultered once. in my opinion that has more merit than a vegetarian who on occasion eats fish. also there is many more relations between mammals than there are other animals by a long shot. some insects are even larger than many fish. fish, insects, birds lay eggs, and are much more 'simple' life forms in every sense of the word. when you've studied and worked with insects (beetles) as much as i have i guess its only natural that the respect gainined for their existence is raised and the actions they are capable of easily on the level of sophistication as birds and fish who are also "swarm' animals though rarely do they work as proactively together as insects do.

birds fly and fish swim, so their elegance is always going to be higher regarded than insects who are often seen as annoyances at best.

i don't believe however people who eat mammals are bad or in the wrong. to me its like eating those i feel close to. (here comes the barb) to me its like dating a 2nd cousin, which why there's nothing wrong with it, theres better alternatives.

but i'm a paradox myself. i find milk disgusting these days and been drinking only soy for many years. however, soy cheese is disgusting, and i say long live california cheese!

And I say any meal that doesn't contain MEAT is not a real meal!!

well, more and more youth will be open and embrace the idea just like doing their part for the environment, and hopefully not for disney style reasons like some do "animals are so cute".
but the reality is the animals, and mammals especially, require far more resources to make a meal out of than plants, etc. so as the worlds resources become scarcer which thankfully is having light shed on the matter now, meat will become more and more a luxury which is more or less how it should be any how, instead of the heavily subsidized industry it is here in the states.

I like to think of myself as an environmentalist, but when it comes to meat or no meat, I am willing to sacrifice a little bit of mother nature for meat!