Tortured Hearts - Kickstarter Campaign

This project doesn't seem ready for Kickstarter (the presentation isn't tempting enough for a project that asks for $300k), and the different in game rewards for contributing makes me not want to support it ("magic potion giving 10pct of in game prices", "magical potion giving x pct XP". It seems like the sort of scheme you'll get from Bioware, and represents a lot of what is wrong with a lot of games today.

Hello,
SubBassman alerted me to this forum just now. First I would like to say that we share your concerns about the video that shows we are "real people" and not just some internet scam or illusion. We are trying to overcome our lack of video skills and equipment as fast as possible. We could tell you what we are trying to accomplish; it will be the same things we've already put in print, make a long, interesting, fun and forgiving game with great replayability. We could also try killing two birds with one stone and act out some typical conversations. This would be a little tricky as the story is conversation-driven, like PST, Wasteland, HOTU, many others, and what choices you make will affect the rest of the game; so in a video as in the game, once you go down one conversation path, the rest are closed off. As in the NWN community mods, there is no way to mess up the plot line and ruin your general progress, but otherwise you can go from area to area, add and drop henches, develop skills in a way which is much more varied than any other RPG I know of (which I admit is not too many), stop progressing and grind to your heart's content, and otherwise freak freely.
As to jumping the gun on this project, we normally are about 8000 miles apart which means one is getting up when the other is going to bed and limits our time working together. But he was able to come here briefly and visit me, and this is the opportunity we have to work with. It's too bad that NWN is now such an obsolete game. That was our main community and it's now dispersed. If a fourth of the people who ever downloaded his mods and my little mod from there alone contributed to this project, we'd be in good shape.

Falchor

I understand your concerns and we'll keep you updated here and on the kickstarter page.

Thanks SubBassman! As a former NWN modding veteran myself, I love the idea of helping kickstart some projects from former NWN modders. I look forward to your updates.

Back again--the last post was getting a little long.
About the world structure of Tortured Hearts. The cosmology is somewhat familiar, there is a "real world" of Eupherea, and there are planar side worlds. However, it is a much simpler schema than the one in D&D/NWN/PST. There are two elemental worlds, one of fire and one of ice. There is a Hell which has various layers. There is a celestial plane which is "out there" and not really visited or even described in TH, except for a small area inhabited by the Celestial Scribes; a part of it is mentioned tangentially as the place where the real prime movers exist, but for the most part it is unknown in the other planes. There are small pocket universes here and there, inhabited by powerful beings. There is an Underworld which is remarkable similar to the one the drow live in.
Eupherea is quite large place in itself. It has oceans, mountains, cities, forests, caves, islands, a desert, and a variety of citizens in several interest factions. One choke point is acquiring a ship to get away from the starting area. Another choke point is acquiring the ability for planar travel to visit the other planes; they are mentioned right from the start, but several things have to happen first.

and the different in game rewards for contributing makes me not want to support it ("magic potion giving 10pct of in game prices", "magical potion giving x pct XP".

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What sort of rewards tickle your fancy, then?

DrHoo said:

What sort of rewards tickle your fancy, then?

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The point is that I don't like "rewards" that affect game balance. There are a lot of games where you have to buy yourself an advantage to compete (or to enjoy the game at all), like Dragon Age Legends. I hate that sort of thing.

The rewards for this game is the allowance of cheating.

The rewards for this game is the allowance of cheating.

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Aha. Well, the instant mightiness is in the form of a potion which you can take or not. I can see where it would only be a reward to people who get their thrills from being as mighty as possible, as soon as possible, and therefore to you it is no reward. But, this doesn't really answer my question: what reward do you think is meaningful, as a player who prefers to take the world without alteration?

You are targeting a niche market. And this niche market are represented mainly by RPGWatch, Gamebanshee, RPGCodex web sites. You have to think about giving some interviews to these sites to reach more role playing gamers and convince them. For example when I had first seen Banner Saga, I presumed it some kind of indie JRPG so didn't bother with it. But when I had red an interview about it in the RPGCodex, my thoughts about the game changed and I pledged to the game.

Gokyabgu said:

You are targeting a niche market. And this niche market are represented mainly by RPGWatch, Gamebanshee, RPGCodex web sites. You have to think about giving some interviews to these sites to reach more role playing gamers and convince them. For example when I had first seen Banner Saga, I presumed it some kind of indie JRPG so didn't bother with it. But when I had red an interview about it in the RPGCodex, my thoughts about the game changed and I pledged to the game.

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Thank you, mate, we really appreciate it.

Anyway, none of the RPGCodex contact links work...

SubBassman said:

Thank you, mate, we really appreciate it.

Anyway, none of the RPGCodex contact links work…

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The 'Codex is still a construction site these days -
You can send a personal message to DarkUnderlord here …
(you need to login)
Just click on the Avatar to start a personal conversation.

While I could perhaps see supporting a group like SureAI, the makers of Nehrim, with Kickstart money, I really don't know that NWN modders would make the cut. Most of the tools are supplied in NWN and you only need basic scripting skills and the ability to tell a story. I had started playing both modules, but they were too drawn out to hold my interest for the duration. I'd need to see examples of strong technical skills from the group before even considering a donation. I also think you need the team before the kickstart campaign, rather than a campaign that hopes to recruit a team.

crpgnut said:

I also think you need the team before the kickstart campaign, rather than a campaign that hopes to recruit a team.

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We have the team. Those people are the core members.

DrHoo said:

Aha. Well, the instant mightiness is in the form of a potion which you can take or not. I can see where it would only be a reward to people who get their thrills from being as mighty as possible, as soon as possible, and therefore to you it is no reward. But, this doesn't really answer my question: what reward do you think is meaningful, as a player who prefers to take the world without alteration?

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You don't know how the game will be balanced, and therefore you don't know how the potions will affect the game experience. In a lot of games you have to pay for extra content to make the game playable (like Dragon Age Legends). I like games where everyone plays the same game.

I've supported eight Kickstarter projects so far. In half of them I've chosen the cheapest donation that gives me a copy of the game. In the others I've opted for things such as digital soundtracks (Wasteland + Double Fine) etc.

I would like to choose more tangible rewards (boxed versions, t-shirts), but if I payed $100 for the Special Edition Box of the Double Fine adventure I would also have to pay $15 for the shipment, $25 in import tax and $25 in handling fee.

I've spread the word to the 'Codex: link

You don't know how the game will be balanced, and therefore you don't know how the potions will affect the game experience. In a lot of games you have to pay for extra content to make the game playable (like Dragon Age Legends). I like games where everyone plays the same game.

I would like to choose more tangible rewards (boxed versions, t-shirts), but if I payed $100 for the Special Edition Box of the Double Fine adventure I would also have to pay $15 for the shipment, $25 in import tax and $25 in handling fee.

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We are not proposing to balance the game so it is unplayable without buying extras. Remember this is a Kickstarter reward, not the situation for the final product. There is no way we are going to be selling boosts like DAL. And while you might spurn a boost, others welcome it: we have to cater to a wide range of tastes. As I said, if you don't drink the potion, you are playing the same game as everyone.
Tangible rewards are nice but as you point out, they are a real hassle for someone in your situation. That's a terrible penalty for a "reward." This leaves… not too much. Digital art and music is about it. Or customizing the game. Sure it would be nice to work everyone's face/name/pet joke in, but there's only so much room, aside from a special credit sheet, and therefore it has to be limited by us.

I've spread the word to NWN-Forum, too. link

Well I liked the idea and the tech demo looked interesting. I also liked the way the dev e-mailed a personal thank you for backing it.

Hope this gets the backing it needs always nice to see some fresh ideas mixed with old school roleplay.

I agree that a video demo of gameplay may be more successful at getting funding (that's why I backed FTL) or you recruit Brian Fargo (thats why I backed Wasteland 2)

I agree that a video demo of gameplay may be more successful at getting funding (that's why I backed FTL) or you recruit Brian Fargo (thats why I backed Wasteland 2)
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Who wouldn't like to recruit Brian Fargo--or his video maker--it is to die for. Fargo appears in TH II, the NWN mod, but he hasn't responded.

DrHoo said:

Who wouldn't like to recruit Brian Fargo—or his video maker—it is to die for. Fargo appears in TH II, the NWN mod, but he hasn't responded.

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I think he's got his hands full right now (of Kickstarter cash looking at stats )