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Default Fallout 3 - Reviews @ IGN, GameSpy, GameShark

October 31st, 2008, 20:43
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
Half-life 2 had a unique way of story telling as all the experiance was from the perspective of you as a silent player, the dog and alyx and her dad was also memorable characters. But the story was a bit of a dissapointment anyway. It did however breath new life into the genre by adding physics and the gravity gun!



I do love RTS games While I don't personaly like starCraft at all, I am the first one to admit that it deserves all the praise it got, no other game had such a variety of raises so much multiplayer possiblity so good balance as starcraft.

The C&C games, well I love the C&C games, but I think C&C 3 got too high ratings it was the same as C&C 1, and the red alert games, the only difference was better graphics.

Warcraft, nothing to say here also, warcraft one was the start of this genre in the fantasy universe and brought many new ideas with the farms and resource management. Warcraft 2, it added a lot of new ideas to the old concept. Warcraft 3 it brought a completely new aspect where you managed a smaller army with heroes, to focus more on the ability use in combat, and less on just building huge armies. So while I am not a huge warcraft fan I also easily admit it deserved the ratings.

I guess my point is it is games and should be rated with focus on gameplay and interactive story telling, rather than graphics. If it was a graphics demo sure it updated graphics should be enough for a top rating.
Although I do like games with stories, I don't think they should necessarily be an important factor for evaluating a game. For many years, games were just 'gameplay' (you could read some backstory in some of their manuals, though I don't know what backstory there was for PacMan ) . Storytelling was just slowly introduced to gaming as the media allowed it. Sure, if I'm playing an adventure game I want a good story, but the focus is in the puzzle solving. I also want a good story in a RPG, but the focus is in the stats and customization (items, spells, etc). Story is also good in a strategy game, but what matters is the strategy options and balance.
I put story at the same level as sound and graphics, just accessories to the actual game (accessories that can definitely make a good game better, but it had to be good to start). As an example, one of the best games I've played in years is King's Bounty, yet the story is nothing special, the graphics are good but not breathtaking, sound is just ok, it has spelling errors, a bug here and there, but the actual gameplay is what makes me play and love it.
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November 1st, 2008, 04:09
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
As an example, one of the best games I've played in years is King's Bounty, yet the story is nothing special, the graphics are good but not breathtaking, sound is just ok, it has spelling errors, a bug here and there, but the actual gameplay is what makes me play and love it.
Amen brother! I've been eating, drinking, and sleeping King's Bounty for the last week. It's definitely been the surprise of the year so far.
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November 1st, 2008, 09:14
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
I put story at the same level as sound and graphics, just accessories to the actual game (accessories that can definitely make a good game better, but it had to be good to start). As an example, one of the best games I've played in years is King's Bounty, yet the story is nothing special, the graphics are good but not breathtaking, sound is just ok, it has spelling errors, a bug here and there, but the actual gameplay is what makes me play and love it.
This describes the mainstream view of what good computer games do very eloquently.
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November 1st, 2008, 09:37
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
This describes the mainstream view of what good computer games do very eloquently.
Ah yes of course, because the "mainstream" is not intelligent enough to realize that story is so much more important than everything else right?
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November 1st, 2008, 10:28
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
I think it's rather characteristic that Bioshock got all those accolades for story and content. If it was a book, it would've been a pretty mediocre sci-fi short story, and would've been roundly criticized for being derivative, repetitive, predictable, shallow, and calculated.
I doubt it. Bioshock would not be a whole novel but it's enough for a short story even if you clean out all the fighting/mutations etc. Any good sci-fi / horror has a take on current events and ideas in a different setting and Bioshock is one of those games that carry a message which if it was made into a short story would still have a point 300 years from now.
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November 1st, 2008, 10:37
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Ah yes of course, because the "mainstream" is not intelligent enough to realize that story is so much more important than everything else right?
Huh? Where did *that* reading come from? Most of my colleagues prefer mainstream games, and some of them are smarter than I am. It's a matter of taste, not a value judgment. There's nothing wrong with being in the majority on matters of taste — nor the minority, for that matter.
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November 1st, 2008, 10:40
Amen brother! I've been eating, drinking, and sleeping King's Bounty for the last week. It's definitely been the surprise of the year so far.

but the actual gameplay is what makes me play and love it.
In that case we are in agreement! I also love kings bounty the best game in years just like you guys said, it also got good ratings, which it deserved, I think however it deserves much higher ratings than any other game released this year. But that's biased hehe.

Anyway as you can see, in my description, I had said GAMEPLAY improvements and gameplay is the most importan. However I also added interactive story-telling. But I really think it depends on the game, an RPG or adventure game, you'd except a great story also, while for a game like pacman it would mostly be annoying with a story.

For example tetris or pacman, both brilliant and addictive games even today!!! they have minimal graphics, minimal sound, but great music , they are still timeless classics because of gameplay! Gameplay should be the key point of rating all games in my opinion. That's why I also ( which was not popular here ) complained about the otherwise great interactive story the witcherer.
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November 1st, 2008, 10:44
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Ah yes of course, because the "mainstream" is not intelligent enough to realize that story is so much more important than everything else right?
Yes. Mainstream consumers are simpleminded and lacks the insight to understand the depth in art and storytelling. The whole idea that you could actually use the narrative to tell the player something important is just silly, besides, most developers wouldn't be able to create a worthwhile story even if they tried. And think about their jobs, they better make games that are tried before rather than taking the risk of releasing something new. You have to understand your average gamer, they aren't interested in having to think while playing, shooting stuff up after a frustrating day at their average job is what they want. But making the game simple and void of story is not everything, in fact it's best to produce games that can be played after drinking a few beers as well.
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November 1st, 2008, 14:39
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
Huh? Where did *that* reading come from? Most of my colleagues prefer mainstream games, and some of them are smarter than I am. It's a matter of taste, not a value judgment. There's nothing wrong with being in the majority on matters of taste — nor the minority, for that matter.
My apologies PJ, I took your post out of context. I thought you were trying to pull the "I'm so much better than the mainstream, they're just a bunch of retards" routine.


I should have known that JemyM would follow up and do exactly that.
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November 1st, 2008, 18:59
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
in fact it's best to produce games that can be played after drinking a few beers as well.
I better be able to play my games after drinking a few beers!!
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November 2nd, 2008, 00:48
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I should have known that JemyM would follow up and do exactly that.
And the sarcasm was missed.
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November 2nd, 2008, 02:24
i cant even play an hour of f3 without a ctd.
what i can say so far, is that it a way too-much-too-soon game.
i've only played about 1 hour game time total, still i've already acquired an assault rifle, hunting rifle, laser pistol, flamethrower, a ripper, power armor, and more..
so far it doesnt feel desolate or wasteland at all, seems there's something around every corner.
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November 2nd, 2008, 07:40
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
And the sarcasm was missed.
You were being sarcastic? If so, I missed it too.
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November 2nd, 2008, 10:08
Originally Posted by dyze View Post
so far it doesnt feel desolate or wasteland at all, seems there's something around every corner.
Yeah, you're probably right. But you just know what the reactions would be if the world was big and empty, like Oblivion's. So I just see it for what it is: a game, and not a post-nuclear war simulator. The atmosphere and NPCs are right, so it all works out for me.
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November 2nd, 2008, 11:21
People say that in the last recent years, the number of younger people reading books constantly declines.

If this is right, then story has no place at one point anymore. Good books & novels will be adressed to a minority at one point.

That is - if the pendulum doesn't swing back again. Which could happen as well.

At some points this reminds me of the (at least here where i live) often-to-hear rant that modern music groups are so much streamlined that they don't bear anything memorable anymore.

Everything's fast food nowadays (somewhere i read the term of the "McDonaldization" of our societies), in almost all areas of living. Good restaurants with really good meals aren't visited by younger people I fear. They remain a domain of the older ones.

Which leads me to the thought if the industry isn't relying too much onm the younger, imho rather undemanding generations as potential customers. They want fast, easy to play games and probable not intellectual stuff at all.

Me, I'm feeling rather underchallenged ("unterfordert" in German language, I think "undemanded" could be a possible translation, too, but I'm not sure). I prefer complex stuff that makes me think. Therefore, I love long progressive rock music pieces than short pop songs, although short pop songs sometimes have their own grace.

Everything is sooo much oriented towards only one goal: Profits. For this goal, everything is just streamlined.

It has become the major philosophy of major companies.

Not that companies never wanted profits, that's not not true,because making profits is one of the cores of commerce anyway,

no, the point is that one of the other cores of commerce, namely pleasing the customer is imho largely neglected. Fire & Forget. Receiving support becomes a hassle, not a service.

And therefore, games are so much streamlined that they - in the optimum - don't need much support anyway, because that would frighten the profits. I'm not speaking of bugs, I'm speaking of the overall please the customer policy. Polishing a game, maybe.

Maybe this even means that the major companies which imho seem to have aimed themselves towards younger generations as the mostly preferred customers don't see just these customers as serious customers at all anymore. Maybe this is that they don't believe that ounger generations don't need the same quality of support than older generations (let's say 30s-50s) need. Maybe this is a bias of the major companies, which are used to much whining of younger generations in their forums (sometimes even withouit proper spelling) so that they just do it as if all customers were of that group.

I don't know. But these are the thoughts that go on in my mind.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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November 2nd, 2008, 14:42
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
You were being sarcastic? If so, I missed it too.
I hoped that lines like "and think about their jobs, they better make games that are tried before rather than taking the risk of releasing something new" or "in fact it's best to produce games that can be played after drinking a few beers as well" gave it away.
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November 2nd, 2008, 15:11
They probably would have, had they come from someone else. Thing is, you have expressed similar sentiments before. Here, for example:

Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
I leave this quote since it to me captures where we speak past eachother. Debating nature "as is" is a practice for intellectuals. It's not meant for a public of people who have yet to recognize the complex structures that keeps society together. It's also not meant for kids who needs clear guidelines on "proper behavior" when they are not yet old enough to understand the consequences of their behavior.
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November 2nd, 2008, 20:02
Everything is sooo much oriented towards only one goal: Profits. For this goal, everything is just streamlined.
Alrik, many things are streamlined, but certainly not everything. Look in our ever-popular "Currently Listening" thread or in Interesting links for gamers (Indie games, Abandonware, Mods) or Links and Stuff and you'll find a lot of interesting and weird stuff.

Part of the charm of indie/alternative (and scientific!) things is

1.) you have to search for it
2.) it's not for the masses

just ignore the streamlined world, if you don't like it - I am living so for years now - and I'm happy, watch less and less TV and have no problems with heart attacks

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
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November 3rd, 2008, 11:36
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
just ignore the streamlined world, if you don't like it - I am living so for years now - and I'm happy, watch less and less TV and have no problems with heart attacks
I'm doing this more and more, too.

I think I've become kind of picky over games nowadays.


But sometimes I just can't help thinking: "Oh my, what a FANTASTIC game would this have been if it hadn't been streamlined

And then I rant …


Plus, as I like thinking, I also try to make up kind of a philosophy about the current state of gaming. My dream would be to put all of my thoughts into a book - just to show "the industry" that people are actually thinking about what they do, watching them …

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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November 3rd, 2008, 18:12
Originally Posted by dyze View Post
i cant even play an hour of f3 without a ctd.
what i can say so far, is that it a way too-much-too-soon game.
i've only played about 1 hour game time total, still i've already acquired an assault rifle, hunting rifle, laser pistol, flamethrower, a ripper, power armor, and more..
so far it doesnt feel desolate or wasteland at all, seems there's something around every corner.
Really? With the exception of all the gameplay in the first hour or two (the vault and megaton) I can't find anything interesting in the gameworld. Maybe I just haven't stumbled upon the right corners but I went off exploring and for literally a few hours all I found was combat and loot. I had a hell of a time getting back across the Potomac. (I'm trying to avoid fast travel btw). I traveled mostly through the subways. I suppose it was a fun adventure in its own right, but where are the unexpected NPCs holed up somewhere with something to say or a quest to offer? Encountering raiders I would hope they wouldn't attack me every time but would chat instead. I did find an old lady near the river with a minor quest, but I covered a lot of ground to discover something that wasn't trying to kill me.

The good points about this so far:

I like being able to travel underground, and that everything is interconnected. One of my favorite aspects of Ultima 7.

The level scaling doesn't seem to be as obvious. I can tell with the Raiders, but a handful of Mirelurks can get a lvl 4 character in serious trouble fast.

It certainly seems to be a wasteland to me, but a little too empty for a game. I'm going to get back to the story and see what I can discover on the way.
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