|
Your continuous donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » NWN 2 » Storm of Zehir

Default Storm of Zehir

June 2nd, 2009, 22:57
Originally Posted by booboo View Post
I finally decided to give this another expansion chance - I've endured the excrutiating slog that is the overland map - I have a thief with high spot, hide, move silently etc and ended up trying to fleel from pursuing monsters when I was spotted. Still had way too may pointless encounters. So, finally,I get to the 'end game', back in the S. lands…and suddenly everything becomes harder!? EL17 monsters everywhere - my party is only level 12 even though I have done everything required.
Dunno man, I'm about level 12 and still haven't even gone north of Neverwinter. No problems with random encounters either. My rogue/ranger can usually hide from most encounters and/or evade, and if not, tanglefoot bags work too. I did choose 'exp' as award for the magic nodes thing, so that's 2000 free exp I got so far there.
wolfing is offline

wolfing

wolfing's Avatar
Wonders what SasqWatch is

#41

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,234

Default 

June 3rd, 2009, 20:04
Ah crap! so what i'm reading is that 12th level is way too low to tackle the end of the game…So I'll have to exit from the temple and go muck about until I get level 13,14 and 15 (and probably 16) at least. That is a *huge* number of XPs! I did a fair number of side quests besides the required ones, probably slightly less than usual - as I tended to avoid the overland map itty bitty quests…seems like the discovery aspect *is* something you need to do to get enough experience i.e. finding new locations, doing a bit of dungeoneering etc etc. I'm close to just throwing this back in the cupboard - I have never had this happen with any NWN title or expansion (or previous Bioware, Black Isle etc titles). I don't really have the energy to backtrack and go and scrutinize every tavern and corner of the world looking for quests. And I still don't see the point of the overland map encounter system to be honest - exploration is all fine and well, but unless you have a ranger or survival maxed character (i.e. forced choices) you spend huge amounts of time running away or engaged in pointless combats which do not advance the story. And unless you have special feats/items you cannot sleep in any cave/interior you have cleared out which is a major bummer and illogical to boot. Sure, the NWN system of sleeping anywhere was silly - by BG had a good compomise system where you could sleep and risk a random encounter in enemy territory (esp spaces you cleared) and still get spells etc. And some 3rd party modules had 'safe areas' in practically any location - which were great to find. I enjoyed some aspects of this expansion, but not enough to convince me to invest any more time. Thanks for the help guys.
booboo is offline

booboo

booboo's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#42

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 946

Default 

June 4th, 2009, 15:32
Originally Posted by booboo View Post
Ah crap! so what i'm reading is that 12th level is way too low to tackle the end of the game…So I'll have to exit from the temple and go muck about until I get level 13,14 and 15 (and probably 16) at least. That is a *huge* number of XPs! I did a fair number of side quests besides the required ones, probably slightly less than usual - as I tended to avoid the overland map itty bitty quests…seems like the discovery aspect *is* something you need to do to get enough experience i.e. finding new locations, doing a bit of dungeoneering etc etc. I'm close to just throwing this back in the cupboard - I have never had this happen with any NWN title or expansion (or previous Bioware, Black Isle etc titles). I don't really have the energy to backtrack and go and scrutinize every tavern and corner of the world looking for quests. And I still don't see the point of the overland map encounter system to be honest - exploration is all fine and well, but unless you have a ranger or survival maxed character (i.e. forced choices) you spend huge amounts of time running away or engaged in pointless combats which do not advance the story. And unless you have special feats/items you cannot sleep in any cave/interior you have cleared out which is a major bummer and illogical to boot. Sure, the NWN system of sleeping anywhere was silly - by BG had a good compomise system where you could sleep and risk a random encounter in enemy territory (esp spaces you cleared) and still get spells etc. And some 3rd party modules had 'safe areas' in practically any location - which were great to find. I enjoyed some aspects of this expansion, but not enough to convince me to invest any more time. Thanks for the help guys.
Actually I checked this morning and I was wrong, my group wasn't 12, but just starting 11. Now they're still 11 and I've done some exploration on the north side of the bridge, so you may not be as bad as you think (also, remember that if you're looking into characters of special races like Yuan-ti, they are bound to be 1 or 2 levels lower than normal races because of ECL)
I don't know why you think survival is a 'forced' thing. For years people complained that skills were not important for these games, and when one comes that does use them, you don't like it? I disagree, I do like it as it is. It's not forced really, I mean, you have 6 characters in the party, one of them probably has survival as class skill, just select him as the leader for the map and you're set.
I actually applaud the 'no rest everywhere' approach. That's the one thing I hated about the previous incarnations (OC main culprit), it adds planning for your adventuring. Should you blast those 5 gnolls with your last fireball? what if there are 5 ice trolls in the next room? This happened all the time when I played p&p D&D, I enjoy that a lot. Could it have been better? maybe, but this is much better than the OC style.
wolfing is offline

wolfing

wolfing's Avatar
Wonders what SasqWatch is

#43

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,234

Default 

June 4th, 2009, 20:01
I agree about not being able to sleep everywhere, I just think that if you have decimated all the local flora and fauna, you should be able to, at least in a closed environment like a cave etc. Haveing to trek all the way bvack to a town with an inn (and traverse many) overland encounters..,.well, I don't find that enoyable. As for skills: sure make them relevant, but iI felt that I was forced to spend valuable skill points (still not enough clearly) on survival which did not actually conicide with the role I saw for my characters. (My thief shoudl excell at thiefy things, not have to double as a tracker - cross class too. ouch)
I did, however, like the increased use of skills for negotation etc, and the fact that you could use the skills of the best person in your party - way overdue that!
As for the party I have: I picked up standard in-game NPCs and played human myself - the party lagged behind somewhat (a deep gnome and planetouched), but are now almost all the same level. The XP gap seems quite small once you get to mid-levels. It's clear from comments by others, though, and my own experience that I'm way behind a good level (taking my human PC as example) for this last stretch - and it shows. My 12th level paladin has a +20-22 attack bonus - and he's struggling to hit. And even with an AC of 33 when buffed he gets smacked far too often, for lots of damage (I've always suspected that the 'random' number generator they use is not so random!!!) Anyway, I may go back and fiddle - but I've just bought King's Bounty so I'm goingto give that a whirl first.
booboo is offline

booboo

booboo's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#44

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Posts: 946

Default 

June 8th, 2009, 15:39
As I wrote in the spoiler tag on the previous page, the ending is a huge step up in difficulty. It was a roadkill for my party - I simply got butchered every time I tried. I completed most of the game, but my party leader was so good at avoiding combat, I hardly had to fight.

I still haven't completed SoZ (final fight remaining), so I wouldn't know how. You should probably be level 17-18 or so I guess.

I am considering making a new party at some point, and go all out power builds just to annihilate the final boss.
Maylander is offline

Maylander

SasqWatch

#45

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen
Posts: 5,423
Send a message via MSN to Maylander

Default 

June 8th, 2009, 18:19
Right now I'm just entering the temple, not sure how advanced in the game that is, my party is level 14 and haven't found anything particularly difficult, but I think I'll find out in my next session
wolfing is offline

wolfing

wolfing's Avatar
Wonders what SasqWatch is

#46

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,234

Default 

June 9th, 2009, 15:27
ok, I see what you mean LOL!!! It's like they forgot to include content for levels 13-14, what a jump. The random battles are nothing though, but the temples and dungeons on the north part of the temple are tougher (basically I have to take a rest after each dungeon while I would just rest after 3 or 4 dungeons before), with one exception…
Spoiler

But I'm loving it!
wolfing is offline

wolfing

wolfing's Avatar
Wonders what SasqWatch is

#47

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,234

Default 

June 11th, 2009, 14:59
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
As I wrote in the spoiler tag on the previous page, the ending is a huge step up in difficulty. It was a roadkill for my party - I simply got butchered every time I tried. I completed most of the game, but my party leader was so good at avoiding combat, I hardly had to fight.

I still haven't completed SoZ (final fight remaining), so I wouldn't know how. You should probably be level 17-18 or so I guess.

I am considering making a new party at some point, and go all out power builds just to annihilate the final boss.
Ok I got to the final fight, my party is level 16. I've tried it about 4 times and not a chance (never got the final dude to even 'injured'). I read around the web and found some interesting strategies I'm going to test. Not going to throw the towel just yet!
(by the way, one of the things I found is exploiting a bug that gives you free exp near the end… don't think I'll go that route, but thought you might rather do that than starting all over from scratch)
wolfing is offline

wolfing

wolfing's Avatar
Wonders what SasqWatch is

#48

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,234

Default 

June 12th, 2009, 11:03
Let me know how it goes. I experienced the same - most of the game was a breeze, but that final fight.. sheesh. Especially the big dude: I couldn't even hurt the guy, and he was killing anything I put up against him in one or two rounds, no matter how well they were protected with spells and what not.

The next time I play SoZ, I will:
1) Make a min/max party
2) Bring only three or four to make levelling faster (xp is divided here, like in the old D&D games such as BG1-2).
4) Get to 17-18 before filling the party with NPCs (let's say I play most of the game with four characters, then fill up with two NPCs after reaching 17-18) and then enter the temple. The NPCs can be upgraded to instantly reach a higher level (costs a fair amount of gold, but money is hardly the issue).
Maylander is offline

Maylander

SasqWatch

#49

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen
Posts: 5,423
Send a message via MSN to Maylander

Default 

June 16th, 2009, 15:34
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Let me know how it goes. I experienced the same - most of the game was a breeze, but that final fight.. sheesh. Especially the big dude: I couldn't even hurt the guy, and he was killing anything I put up against him in one or two rounds, no matter how well they were protected with spells and what not.
6 more attempts… 6 more failures I refuse (for now) to believe my party of lvl 16 can't handle that fight, yet all sites I found that talk how they beat the fight is with groups of like lvl 18-21. I still have a couple of strategies to try, but so far I've been blasted/sliced/smashed/kicked/bitch-slapped and the closest I've come is killing everything but the super big dude (barely injured) and one of the "just big" dudes (injured).
It also sucks that there is no enchanting/crafting room anywhere near so I can do some final enchantments (I might use the console to summon one as a mini-cheat, more like design "fix")
wolfing is offline

wolfing

wolfing's Avatar
Wonders what SasqWatch is

#50

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,234

Default 

June 17th, 2009, 17:39
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
6 more attempts… 6 more failures I refuse (for now) to believe my party of lvl 16 can't handle that fight, yet all sites I found that talk how they beat the fight is with groups of like lvl 18-21. I still have a couple of strategies to try, but so far I've been blasted/sliced/smashed/kicked/bitch-slapped and the closest I've come is killing everything but the super big dude (barely injured) and one of the "just big" dudes (injured).
It also sucks that there is no enchanting/crafting room anywhere near so I can do some final enchantments (I might use the console to summon one as a mini-cheat, more like design "fix")
3 more attempts, 3 more failures (sigh), but I had an idea on the way to work today, going to try it in the evening. Do you know if the door gets locked after the fight starts? Maybe I can do what I did against the vampire lords/mind flayer, kill a few, leave the room, lick my wounds and head back, trying to take one or a few at a time and run away.
wolfing is offline

wolfing

wolfing's Avatar
Wonders what SasqWatch is

#51

Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,234

Default 

June 18th, 2009, 09:55
It's been a while, but I think it does. I don't think you can exit the room after a certain point (perhaps at all - is it ever possible to leave that final chamber, even before starting the fight?).
Maylander is offline

Maylander

SasqWatch

#52

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Bergen
Posts: 5,423
Send a message via MSN to Maylander

Default 

June 18th, 2009, 11:39
It's been a while, but I managed to beat the encounter at a fairly low level - maybe level 12 or 13 (after a bunch of failures). I can't remember all details anymore, so my description might be a bit vague at points - sorry. Anyway, my winning strategy was like this:

Spoiler
KasperFauerby is offline

KasperFauerby

Sentinel

#53

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 433

Default 

May 8th, 2010, 23:07
I've played through SoZ twice, and my party has never gotten past level 16 before the final boss. On my first play through, I heard how hard the final boss was supposed to be, so I started grinding like a JRPG until I gained 1 level and decided that was too boring. The final boss can be a challenge, and I found success using the 'drink a boatload of potions' strategy.
Nerzugul is offline

Nerzugul

Traveler

#54

Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1

Default 

May 3rd, 2011, 05:40
Reposting from the other thread…

I am thinking hard about a party for NWN 2, Storm of Zehir. Trying to devise a good set up for allocating skills to get all the teamwork feats and other bonuses, and having sufficient crafting skills/feats to craft anything.

Can anyone recommend a particular party?

I'm thinking…

Leader
Human Rogue x / Ranger 3
- rogue skills, craft trap, bluff, hide, move silently, survival, appraisal?, dual-wielding, tumble
Gold Dwarf Fighter x / Weapon Master ?
- intimidate, taunt
Aasimar Cleric
- diplomacy, heal, listen, spot, concentration, craft alchemy
Sun Elf Wizard x / Arcane Scholar of Candlekeep 5?
- main crafter, craft armor, craft weapons, spellcraft, search, lore, concentration, tumble
Thrasher is offline

Thrasher

Thrasher's Avatar
Wheeee!
RPGWatch Donor

#55

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 9,987

Default 

May 5th, 2011, 22:58
Still designing my party. To get all the skills and selected Team Feats, the rules are not well documented and I had to do some research. Apparently, unmodified skill level is what qualifies you for Team feats. Bonuses from abilities, or feats don't count. That makes it a little more difficult to build a party.

I had to drop most of the non-human races to get the skilled feat. Had to shuffle around skills, a bit, but now seem to have skills well covered, skill points left over. Probably need another round of shuffling to further optimize out the wasted skill points.

Global constraints: All members get at least 1 point in concentration to qualify for the Group Trance feat and at least 2 points in survival to get the Camp Routine, Improved feat.

Leader
14S 16D 10C 10W 16I 10Ch
Human Rogue 14 / Ranger 3 / Swashbuckler 3
Skills: Bluff, Craft Trap, Disable Device, Hide, Move Silently, Open Lock, Search, Set Trap, Sleight of Hand, Spot, Survival, Tumble
Key Feats: Able Learner, Weapon Finesse (free), 2 Weapon Fighting (free), Improved 2 Weapon Fighting, Greater 2 Weapon Fighting, Crippling Strike, Insightful Strike, Blindfight

17S 13D 15C 10W 10I 10Ch
Human Fighter (thinking of adding Weapon Master to multi-class, would need to up Int to 13)
Skills: Craft Armor, Intimidate, Taunt
Key Feats: Able Learner, Blind Fight, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, will probably add the combat expertise and mobility trees to qualify for Weapon Master

10S 10D 12C 16W 16I 12Ch
Human Cleric - Law Domain (for free Iron Will feat) and Plant (for free Woodland Stride feat and the barkskin spell - both feats needed to qualify for Teamwork benefits)
Skills: Concentration, Craft Alchemy, Diplomacy, Heal, Listen, Spellcraft
Key Feats: Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Magical Arms and Armor, Able Learner, Spellcasting Prodigy, Blind Fight, Extend Spell

10S 14D 14C 10W 18I 8Ch
Sun Elf (to qualify for the group trance teamwork feat) Wizard 10 / Arcane Scholar of Candlekeep 10
Skills: Appraise, Concentration, Craft Weapon, Lore, Spellcraft, Tumble (with lots of skillpoints leftover)
Key Feats: Spellcasting Prodigy, Empower Spell, Extend Spell, Toughness, Craft magical Arms and Armor, Craft Wondrous Items, Spell Penetration.

It's not clear if both spellcasters need to take both the magical crafting feats to create both kinds of items with either of their spells. The rulebook and many online references aren't clear on that.

3 evenings of party tweaking and I haven't even started yet. This can be the most fun part for me…

BTW, for reference, a fantastic tool for creating characters and seeing what's possible is the NWN 2 Character Build Calculator

http://nwvault.ign.com/View.php?view…er.Detail&id=9
Thrasher is offline

Thrasher

Thrasher's Avatar
Wheeee!
RPGWatch Donor

#56

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 9,987

Default 

May 16th, 2011, 20:08
Well I've just about finished the first world map area (maybe a third of the game). You, know, I think I understand the dislike, but not the hate. The only thing I didn't like were the bounty quests; many hours wandering around for particular random monster spawns, and hoping for drops… Otherwise, pretty fun. I'm liking the random map treasures that pop up based on the skills of whoever is leading the party.

Lots of skills used in NPC dialogues provides more information providing nice background flavor, but few consequences.

Most of the encounters were about the right challenge level. Except for one…

Spoiler
Thrasher is offline

Thrasher

Thrasher's Avatar
Wheeee!
RPGWatch Donor

#57

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Studio City, CA
Posts: 9,987
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » NWN 2 » Storm of Zehir
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:19.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch