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Default Henry Louis Gates Jr.'s Arrest

August 12th, 2009, 15:19
Acting in a different way with a pregnant woman, a 3 years old kid or a 84 years old grannie has nothing to do with racial profiling.
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August 12th, 2009, 18:24
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
But there is a difference between over-reaction and career-ending racist brutality. Many folks here have insinuated that. And I really believe that they are wrong.
Sometimes it's appropriate to take something and put it under a microscope in order to get a good look at it, and this incident is definitely one of those times, I think.

This officer's police department will certainly be doing that, won't they? Does anyone here really think they are satisfied with what happened? They may come to this officer's defense, like they did with Gates, but the folks who consider themselves professionals will certainly be the most critical.

And when they do they will immediately notice what the rest of us noticed, that the officer was white and the old woman was black. Myself, I hope they go out of their way to suspect racism. Why the hell not?

In my mind, suspecting racism isn't racism. Recognizing it isn't racism. Raising an objection to it in order to deal with it fairly and intelligently isn't racism. But having zero tolerance for the subject of racism…. That I think sometimes could be due to racism.

Like it or not there still is such a thing as racism in this country and our society ought to be conscientious of it. Anyone who doesn't like that, well that's just too bad.

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August 12th, 2009, 18:32
Squeek, this has got to stop. I've been agreeing with you way too much lately. We're supposed to be slinging snide comments at each other (or, alternatively, pretending that the other doesn't exist), not standing shoulder to shoulder fighting the good fight, remember? Stick to the script already, you rodent!
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August 12th, 2009, 18:40
What can I say? Great minds think alike (and sometimes you get lucky).

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August 12th, 2009, 20:52
Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
And when they do they will immediately notice what the rest of us noticed, that the officer was white and the old woman was black. Myself, I hope they go out of their way to suspect racism. Why the hell not?
Funny, skin color was certainly not the first thing I noticed, nor did it even occur to me, and it would have been the same if the roles were reversed also.


Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
In my mind, suspecting racism isn't racism. Recognizing it isn't racism. Raising an objection to it in order to deal with it fairly and intelligently isn't racism. But having zero tolerance for the subject of racism…. That I think sometimes could be due to racism.
Oops, you seem to have left out "automatically assuming racism", as that seems to be common here as well.
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August 12th, 2009, 20:57
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Funny, skin color was certainly not the first thing I noticed, nor did it even occur to me, and it would have been the same if the roles were reversed also.
That's you, you're talking about, and I'm sure you're right.

Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Oops, you seem to have left out "automatically assuming racism", as that seems to be common here as well.
That's you again you're talking about, right? Or can you read other people's minds? You don't like what occurred to you, and you're attributing it to others.

Of course, all of our opinions have been expressed in writing, so feel free to dispute that by quoting the folks you claim have "automatically [assumed] racism."

Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on. But it don't snow here. It stays pretty green. I'm going to make a lot of money, then I'm going to quit this crazy scene. — [Joni Mitchell]
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August 12th, 2009, 21:02
Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
That's you, you're talking about, and I'm sure you're right.
So then, you're saying you can't look at people without seeing color? Well at least admitting it is the first step….


Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
That's you again you're talking about, right? Or can you read other people's minds? You don't like what occurred to you, and you're attributing it to others.

Of course, all of our opinions have been expressed in writing, so feel free to dispute that by quoting the folks you claim have "automatically [assumed] racism." Good luck.

Are you kidding? Nearly all of your posts have focused on color. In fact, that's all you seem to be able to talk about…
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August 12th, 2009, 21:09
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
So then you're saying you can't look at people without seeing color? Well at least admitting it is the first step…..
I don't understand the connection you're making. What does your opinion of yourself have to do with me?
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Are you kidding? Nearly all of your post have focused on color. In fact, that's all you seem to be able to talk about…
Are you saying any reference to racism automatically assumes racism and that's why it's wrong? If not, maybe you can make a specific case for your accusation instead of making broad references and general assertions.

Or you could always just get pissed off and have a tantrum like the previous poster who didn't like being challenged to get specific.

Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on. But it don't snow here. It stays pretty green. I'm going to make a lot of money, then I'm going to quit this crazy scene. — [Joni Mitchell]
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August 12th, 2009, 21:18
Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
I don't understand the connection you're making. What does your opinion of yourself have to do with me?.
I'm saying you don't seem to have the ability to look at people without seeing color first and foremost….and that's just sad.


Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
Are you saying any reference to racism automatically assumes racism and that's why it's wrong? If not, maybe you can make a specific case for your accusation instead of making broad references and general assertions.
No, I'm saying that it seems to be your first choice to blame racism. Like in the Gates case for instance, where you cried racism from the beginning, even before all the facts were in.

Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
Or you could always just get pissed off and have a tantrum like the previous poster who didn't like being challenged to get specific.
Or I can be like you, and keep pretending to be too ignorant to understand what I'm saying.
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August 12th, 2009, 21:22
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I'm saying you don't seem to have the ability to look at people without seeing color first and foremost….and that's just sad…(snip)…Or I can be like you, and keep pretending to be too ignorant to understand what I'm saying.
I suppose I'll just have to accept that as your response. Fair enough.

Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on. But it don't snow here. It stays pretty green. I'm going to make a lot of money, then I'm going to quit this crazy scene. — [Joni Mitchell]
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August 12th, 2009, 21:54
I'm going to break my promise just this one because you're so utterly full of shit, Squeek.

The first reference to the lady's skin color:
Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
Like Gates, this victim was old, black and walking with a cane. Each police officer was white and ended up calling for backup. And like the Gates episode, this is also a disgrace.
The first accusation of what the cop was thinking:
Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
Body slam that black bitch! Use a cop move on her! Kung Fu her ass!
A clear statement of what you're thinking:
Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
But I did point out that both cops were white and both victims were black. If you think that means those cops were probably racist, then I don't blame you since that does seem like an obvious possibility.
And finally, a blatant and undeniable accusation:
Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
I do suspect that this particular cop may have had more sympathy for this feeble old lady if she had been white.
You owe JDR an apology for wasting his time with your lies.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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August 12th, 2009, 21:59
Originally Posted by Squeek View Post
I don't understand the connection you're making. What does your opinion of yourself have to do with me?Are you saying any reference to racism automatically assumes racism and that's why it's wrong? If not, maybe you can make a specific case for your accusation instead of making broad references and general assertions.

Or you could always just get pissed off and have a tantrum like the previous poster who didn't like being challenged to get specific.
That's it, Squeek, I'm getting tired of you.

I did get specific. I QUOTED YOU. You JUST SAID YOU HOPED THEY SUSPECT RACISM. But hey, since apparently you've been doing nothing but eating lead paint since you were five, here it is, again:

Originally Posted by Squeek

And when they do they will immediately notice what the rest of us noticed, that the officer was white and the old woman was black. Myself, I hope they go out of their way to suspect racism. Why the hell not?
Originally Posted by squeek
I do suspect that this particular cop may have had more sympathy for this feeble old lady if she had been white. And I suspect Crowley has an easier time dealing with irate people who aren't black and accusing him of racism.
Originally Posted by squeek
There's a mystery! Old…confused…unresponsive….

Body slam that black bitch! Use a cop move on her! Kung Fu her ass!
Originally Posted by squeek

Like Gates, this victim was old, black and walking with a cane. Each police officer was white and ended up calling for backup. And like the Gates episode, this is also a disgrace.

This police officer should turn in her badge. She might want to consider career opportunities in professional wrestling instead.
Originally Posted by squeek
On the one hand you see no justification for this particular guy, Gates, to have suspected he was being treated unfairly by this particular cop due to his race. Yet on the other hand you think "anyone can come up with [a similar] instance" where they were being treated unfairly by cops due to their race and that you know you could from your own personal experience.

If that adds up for you, then I'm not surprised you can relate to Crowley. Please do us all a favor and never become a cop.

With Gates, you assumed the cop was racist. You said that flat out. With this chick, you automatically assumed the old woman being black was a factor. It seems pretty god damn apparent that any white cop doing anything with a black suspect is going to make you accuse the cop of racism at this point.

Seriously, quit being such a feckless little shit, Squeek. I quoted you previously and then you made a cheap shot at me telling me to go 'take my meds'? Seriously, go screw yourself and die. Don't you ever say anything similar to that again. Ever. Do you understand me now, or are you going to do your typical intellectual cowardly dodge and act like you have been unfairly accused of things because you are too much of a little coward to actually stand by the shit that comes out of your mouth?
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August 12th, 2009, 22:17
OK … I'm sorry I got involved - consider this a warning shot to all involved (including myself). Cut it out - we've just gotten personal, and it has to end here and now.

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August 12th, 2009, 22:49
Originally Posted by Rithrandil View Post
I did get specific. I QUOTED YOU.
Keep better track of the conversation, buddy. You didn't quote what I had already said. You quoted what I went on to say afterwards in response to someone else's reasonable request for me to elaborate. That was lame and seemed to confuse you. The fact of the matter is, I do have a point of view and don't mind expressing it at all. It just happens to be a shade of gray (and you hate shades of gray, it seems).

If you prefer to be intolerate my points of view and choose to take offense at them instead of engaging them in earnest, then that's your choice, and I'll accept that. But you can take your insults and shove 'em. Why should I bother with anyone who behaves like that?
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
You owe JDR an apology for wasting his time with your lies.
If conversation about racism could only be all one way or the other, if opinions could only be expressed in black or white, then I suppose you might say that I "assumed racism." But in the real world one can suspect racism and discuss that suspicion without assuming anything. And there are varieties of racist attitudes at a variety of levels to consider.

Defying someone to prove they're not thinking what you insist they must be thinking is an odd way to disagree with someone, IMO. Here's what I'm thinking: I do suspect that race factored into both these situations, but I don't assume it. After considering them, that's what I think is most likely.

In this particular case, when I wonder why the lady cop acted so oddly, I suspect she might have been uncomfortable with the fact that the little old lady was black. She might have acted with less fear if the lady had been white. That's racism, but a different kind of racism than the racism I also referred to in other parts of this thread.

The harsher racist characterizations were aimed at your argument, dte — yours, Rith's and JDR13's. I can't know, and I certainly would never insist, but some of your comments seem more racist to me than what I suspect of either Gates or the lady cop.

Oh, I wish I had a river I could skate away on. But it don't snow here. It stays pretty green. I'm going to make a lot of money, then I'm going to quit this crazy scene. — [Joni Mitchell]
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August 12th, 2009, 22:54
You were warned.

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August 13th, 2009, 01:48
I'm closing this thread to avoid more flaming!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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