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Default Planescape: Torment - Retrospective @ Eurogamer

August 26th, 2009, 17:55
To me, IWD was like "pearls for the swine", such a GREAT athmosphere and mood … They could have done sooooooo many things out of that … so many underlying themes … it was just great … and then only combat. Yuck.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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August 26th, 2009, 17:58
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
No one will argue about it being fundamentally a dungeon crawler, but it seemed like you were trying to claim it didn't have a plot/story at all, which is not the case.
If you look, I actually said that it didn't have a "real" story. Not that it didn't have any story, merely that the story was just a token effort.

Anyway, what was it I was supposed to read the manual for? You still haven't explained.

Because you didn't seem to be grasping it, that's why… and yes, I was reading your words just fine.
I think you'll find it's you who haven't been grasping the fact that I have been grasping it. Probably because you haven't been reading things properly

Your opinion is completely subjective, just like mine, and I have no problem with it. What I do have a problem with however, is when someone tries to take something that is subjective, and state it as a fact.
What opinions have I stated as fact? I've stated that IWD has no real story. No real plot, characterisation, original world building, dialogues, choices & consequences etc, but that it is an extremely polished implementation of D&D combat and general art & music assets. None of which seems to be meeting with much disagreement.

I've also stated my own opinion and enjoyment of the game, and my amazement at other people's opinions.

Not sure where I've stated my opinions as the definitive facts, even though frankly I think you should all recognise that my opinions really are always right.

See, now that wasn't so hard….
Nor was it necessary to clarify in such detail something that should IMO be implicit unless people are saying something else.
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August 26th, 2009, 17:59
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
To me, IWD was like "pearls for the swine", such a GREAT athmosphere and mood … They could have done sooooooo many things out of that … so many underlying themes … it was just great … and then only combat. Yuck.
I'm much the same, if someone reaches for something ambitious and then produces a sloppy bugfest I'll get quite forgiving, but if someone produces something beautifully implemented and polished but doesn't take the time to slap a decent dialogue and plotline on top of it then it just feels like such a waste.
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August 26th, 2009, 18:14
Originally Posted by Benedict View Post
If you look, I actually said that it didn't have a "real" story. Not that it didn't have any story, merely that the story was just a token effort.
Really?

Originally Posted by Benedict View Post
I stand by the view that it had nothing else. Story? No.



Originally Posted by Benedict View Post
Anyway, what was it I was supposed to read the manual for? You still haven't explained.
Forget it….

Originally Posted by Benedict View Post
I think you'll find it's you who haven't been grasping the fact that I have been grasping it. Probably because you haven't been reading things properly .
Um….ok


Originally Posted by Benedict View Post
What opinions have I stated as fact? I've stated that IWD has no real story. No real plot, characterisation, original world building, dialogues, choices & consequences etc, but that it is an extremely polished implementation of D&D combat and general art & music assets. None of which seems to be meeting with much disagreement.
"so utterly lacking in anything else at all"
"polished turd"
"Freedom to roleplay? No."
"Replayability? No."
"not very good"

Yes, those are opinions….being stated like facts.

Originally Posted by Benedict View Post
Not sure where I've stated my opinions as the definitive facts, even though frankly I think you should all recognise that my opinions really are always right.

Why can't you always be that humerous?
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August 26th, 2009, 18:29
IWD is a turd.










Well, at least its first 2/5 or so. A lot of repetitive combat and not really much of anything else.
Somewhere during the second half of Dragonīs Eye the game finally starts to get more interesting and the rest of the game is mostly much stronger, especially Severed Hand and Dornīs Deep whose lower part is probably the best part of of the game, which is very unusual since ending parts are usually the weakest in crpgs. Iīve played it for the first (and only) time rather recently so I still remember the names .

That said, the game contains a lot of more-or-less hackīnīslash and its story is thin and extremely linear (with the exception of aforementioned Lower Dornīs Deep) so I doubt I will replay it soon, if ever.

There is mod called Icewind Dale NPCs which somwhat manages to offset IWDīs "Less talk, more fight!"
stance by giving a player 5 NPCs who chat and comment along the ride, similarly to BG2īs ones.
Its character are rather plain, down-to-earth, no Mary Sues so they donīt disturb the flow, just make the playthrough more lively. I can only recommend it.
In fact, existence of this mod was the only reason why I finally decided to give IWD a try .

OT: Planescape: Torment rulez!
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August 26th, 2009, 18:38
Originally Posted by DeepO View Post
There is mod called Icewind Dale NPCs which somwhat manages to offset IWDīs "Less talk, more fight!"
stance by giving a player 5 NPCs who chat and comment along the ride, similarly to BG2īs ones.
Its character are rather plain, down-to-earth, no Mary Sues so they donīt disturb the flow, just make the playthrough more lively. I can only recommend it.
In fact, existence of this mod was the only reason why I finally decided to give IWD a try

Bah…. I don't want constant jibber-jabber in every game I play, sometimes I just want to concentrate solely on kicking ass . If I want talking NPCs then I'll go play BG or PST.

Variety is the spice of life.
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August 26th, 2009, 18:41
There you go. Variety is the spice of life. For what it's worth I really liked IWD and IWD 2. Not as much as PS:T, but they still were a lot of fun.
Last edited by Thrasher; August 26th, 2009 at 19:02.
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August 26th, 2009, 18:55
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Variety is the spice of life.
Haha, yeah, thatīs why I played IWD with the mod in the first place.
I mentioned it as a quite viable option for people who neglect IWD because itīs mostly only about combat.
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