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Poll: Is Dragon Age a genuine successor to BG?

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Is Dragon Age a genuine successor to BG?

Default Is Dragon Age really a BG successor?

November 10th, 2009, 15:06
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
It does improve on many things, but it also takes a step backwards in others.
like what?
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November 10th, 2009, 16:00
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
like what?

- Class/Race variety

- Active party size

- Map linearity

- No ability to split party (Can't enter buildings with anything less than entire party.)

- Magic system is simpler, with less spells.

- Inventory system is dumbed down, less realistic.
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November 10th, 2009, 17:34
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
- Class/Race variety
With the chance to pick 2 of 4 specialisations for 3 classes doesn't that make 18 possible mild variations? Against according to this 18 possible class & multiclass options in BG. And DS has skill trees that (early in the game myself but as far as I can tell) allow for way more different builds than BG where the BGs had pretty well no skills unless you were a rogue.

Hard to see how the race thing is really an issue either. Elf / half elf, who cares? And no real need for gnomes and halflings. When they've made such an effort with the origin stories to really flesh out 3 races then I can't imagine why you'd even remotely wish for the old system of 6 races that only impact the game in mild differences to stats.

- Active party size
Does 6 characters with no real flanking allowances make for better gameplay than 4 with flanking? Surely once you get to the point of having enough characters that it's about team tactics then 4 or 5 or 6 really isn't that different.

- Map linearity
Haven't played that far into it, no idea on that.

- No ability to split party (Can't enter buildings with anything less than entire party.)
Was that used for real gameplay effect in BG? Otherwise who cares?

- Magic system is simpler, with less spells.
Still about 40 spells, and more spell combinations on top of that aren't there? Not to mention that non mages have a decent range of special abilities now.

- Inventory system is dumbed down, less realistic.
For me inventory management gets in the way of a good game, it really doesn't need to be realistic.
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November 10th, 2009, 19:27
JDR13's points are valid to him though, so it really doesn't matter. Everything is just an opinion but you guys sure are making me jealous I'm buying a pc, and hopefully the game, tonight at Best Buy. Dragon Age is selling out everywhere in the St. Louis area. I'm fairly certain I'm going to have to settle for a non-Collector's Edition, at least for now.

'nut
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November 10th, 2009, 21:40
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
- Class/Race variety
Ah yes, well, in all fairness, there are less literal classes, but with so many possible builds, it's not that clear:
Fighter -> Straight warrior
Ranger -> ranged or dual wield specialized build
Wizard -> Mage
Cleric -> Mage with healing. Spirit healer
Barbarian -> 2 handed warrior?
Bard -> Bard
Rogue -> Rogue
Monk -> ok no equivalent here
Did I forget one?
And as far as races go, well, considering how much more developed the selection of a race is in this game, it's not really a fair comparison.

- Active party size
Yep, true that.

- Map linearity
Well, from someone who actually prefers linear maps, this is a plus to me

- No ability to split party (Can't enter buildings with anything less than entire party.)
Could you do that in BG? lol I forgot, yes I did so I could go with my rogue and steal. Well, I can do the same thing here

- Magic system is simpler, with less spells.
True that.

- Inventory system is dumbed down, less realistic.
Don't know, I kind of prefer it like this.
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November 10th, 2009, 21:50
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
- Magic system is simpler, with less spells.
Not disagreeing, but if you play as a mage you should try doing 'spell stacking', for example grease followed by fire … causes grease fires which stick and cause much greater damage … it is a wonderful effect.

As for inventory, I think it is hard to win with inventory systems, to be honest

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November 10th, 2009, 21:51
I see some people trying hard to rationalize against simple facts here.

To each their own though, DA is a great game, that's what's important.
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November 10th, 2009, 21:51
The magic system is actually more like a fitter more robust athlete than BG2. The combinatation system is awesome for experimentation and more of ten than not many spells in BG2 werent used unlike DA. Overall i like it better.
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November 10th, 2009, 21:59
Originally Posted by Benedict View Post
Was that used for real gameplay effect in BG? Otherwise who cares?

Honestly, you've never actually played Baldur's Gate, have you?
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November 10th, 2009, 22:10
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Honestly, you've never actually played Baldur's Gate, have you?
Doesn't mean he didn't play, just missed out on some cool stuff …

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November 11th, 2009, 00:45
True, and it most definitely was a cool feature, especially if you got two seperate battles going on simultaneously in different areas, and had to switch back and forth between them.

Remembering how I used to plunder the mansions in Baldur's Gate with Imoen also makes me realize something else about DA… very rarely does anyone react to you taking something from a chest. You can just grab anything you want in broad daylight, and no one seems to care.
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November 11th, 2009, 01:31
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Remembering how I used to plunder the mansions in Baldur's Gate with Imoen also makes me realize something else about DA… very rarely does anyone react to you taking something from a chest. You can just grab anything you want in broad daylight, and no one seems to care.
I know - especially after Risen having the typical 'get off of my lawn' structure

There were a couple of spots where they do object so I was taken completely off-guard …

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November 11th, 2009, 04:53
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
I'm buying a pc, and hopefully the game, tonight at Best Buy.
Noooo!

You don't have any better options?
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November 11th, 2009, 05:19
I think not being able to enter a building with only part of your party is a result of the new 3d engine, i'm sure they would have liked to have that feature tho. I don't know many 3d engines out there that allow you to simulate 2 worlds (with physics etc) at the same time. The obvious solution is to have one persistent world that includes building interiors like gothic, but that requires a lot more processing muscle.

Favourite RPGs of all time: Wizardry 6, Ultima 7/7.2, Fallout2, Planescape Torment, Baldurs Gate 2+TOB, Jagged Alliance 2, Ravenloft: The stone prophet, Gothic 2, Realms of Arkania:Blade of destiny and Secret of the Silver Blades.
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November 11th, 2009, 10:41
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I see some people trying hard to rationalize against simple facts here.

To each their own though, DA is a great game, that's what's important.
How am I trying to rationalise against simple facts?

I've not disputed that those things are differences between BG & DA, that I grant you is fact. You expressed those as ways in which DA "takes a step backwards" though, suggesting that they are differences which in some way lead to a worse game, which is surely more a matter of opinion than fact (and so more deserving of discussion rather than simple dismissal)?

Not simply being confrontational / defensive of DA here, I'm genuinely curious to hear just what it is you got out of those particular features because I have no real recollection of really giving a crap about them. The races in particular, I remember giving a bit of thought to which gave the best statistics for my chosen build but they never really became much more than a set of statistics but with the DA system of a smaller number of races each of which is really fleshed out by an origin story I've found myself feeling an attachment to all of them.
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November 11th, 2009, 10:49
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Doesn't mean he didn't play, just missed out on some cool stuff …
I do remember a lot of faffing about with just my rogue. And discovering the exploit of boots of speed on a rogue that meant I could run in invisible, stab someone up with a massive damage bonus, run out round the corner faster than them so I could hide out of view & then repeat until dead, which kind of spoiled it for me. I think that was BG . . .

I would however be equally happy with stealth things where they just sort of ignore the fact that only one of you was a rogue. Or with stealth missions that are clearly going to be such so that I could take a party of sneaky people.

Anyway, I haven't got far enough into DA that I know how those kind of things are going to be handled, so it could end up annoying me if I can't really stealth properly because of a lack of flexibility, or if there are no stealth options at all.
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November 11th, 2009, 10:56
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Remembering how I used to plunder the mansions in Baldur's Gate with Imoen also makes me realize something else about DA… very rarely does anyone react to you taking something from a chest. You can just grab anything you want in broad daylight, and no one seems to care.
Okay, that's a bit crap.

Although to put the case for DA, when playing the dwarf commoner origin story I found myself actually wanting to steal from everyone I found up in the main town because of the way I was treated, rather than just the usual "I might get cool stuff and can always reload if caught, steal everything that isn't nailed down" tendency.

Can't remember if BG ever gave a good story type incentive to make me want to steal though.
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November 11th, 2009, 11:47
Originally Posted by Benedict View Post
I've not disputed that those things are differences between BG & DA, that I grant you is fact. You expressed those as ways in which DA "takes a step backwards" though, suggesting that they are differences which in some way lead to a worse game, which is surely more a matter of opinion than fact (and so more deserving of discussion rather than simple dismissal)?.
In my opinion, doing a similar thing in a manner that offers one choice rather than two choices is a step backwards.

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November 11th, 2009, 12:24
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
In my opinion, doing a similar thing in a manner that offers one choice rather than two choices is a step backwards.
Each to their own, to me it's about quality & usability rather than quantity.

So having three well implemented races is actively preferable to half a dozen abstract and insignificant choices. I suppose if you're looking to tap into some specific desire to roleplay a particular build then more choices are better, but for me I'd definitely trade choices at creation for a start that gives me a sense of attachment after creation, to whatever build it is.

Similarly having a smaller number of more distinct spells that any one mage build will only be able to specialise in a few of is preferable to a huge array of spells where whatever build you play you largely end up spamming the same few favourites.

Especially with the whole memorised spell thing in D&D (can't remember if the BGs had sorcerer type classes), I had a wide arsenal of spells that could potentially have been used fairly tactically but without planning what to memorise for a specific encounter (that ideally one wouldn't know about before time in most cases) I generally had a lot of the same spells in my arsenal that worked reasonably well most of the time. So for me a DA type pick from every spell you know at the time I'm guessing is going to work a lot better, particularly as there's no need to horde spells between encounters. Add that to an array of spell like options for the other party members and there looks like way more usable variety than BG had.
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November 11th, 2009, 12:37
Just to restate I'm not looking for a fight, I am really curious as to what it is people got out of the things that were different in BG. The splitting the party thing I can see where you're coming from a lot better now, but the race / class / spell / inventory thing I still can't see what there was about BG that was better. Admittedly I can't remember the inventory system at all, but then I only ever remember inventory systems that are a complete pain in the arse, all I want from an inventory system is that it doesn't annoy me.
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