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RPGWatch Forums » Games » Drakensang » Drakensang » vs Dragon Age?

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December 1st, 2009, 22:46
Originally Posted by RivianWitch View Post

Another thing I like about DA, is the difficulty setting - 4 settings, where in Drsang you cannot set it. You struggle on at the same setting, right through.
Hell yeah thank god for that. I would have quit the game already because I couldn't beat Branka. I laughed, I literally sat there and laughed (in a bitter you've got to be freaking kidding me sort of way) when I finally (after about twelve tries) got her down to fifty percent and she split into four Brankas!

I put it down to easy and beat her effortlessly. Might as well have been god mode, but at least I didn't have to quit playing because of that.
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December 1st, 2009, 22:49
Originally Posted by Gorath View Post
Respawn? Where?
It's been a while since I played but I remember a forest and groups of bandits popping up here and there. And I remember a huge dungeon full of rats that I kept battling my way into, then I'd have to leave and come back because it was too hard. And I had to fight all the rats over again.

I may be mistaken though because it's been ages since I played it.
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December 1st, 2009, 22:52
You remember correctly. Also the dragonkin on the final assault on the mountain. There were many such respawns, but only the ones on the Mt were truly annoying.
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December 2nd, 2009, 15:00
Funny, one of the things I didn't like about the game were the respawning areas. I like 'clearing' places, and hated having to fight a bunch of bandits again and again in that forest.
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December 2nd, 2009, 16:00
Originally Posted by human_male View Post
Drakensang 2 is almost out? Wasn't there supposed to be an expansion for the first game? What happened to that?
They changed everything and put all efforts into Drasa 2.

The expansion was skipped, seemingly.

Edit : Another spawning area is one cave around Tallon - or both caves.

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December 3rd, 2009, 11:01
RoT is officially only DraSa 1.5.

My guess is that Radon Labs is already working on the next Drakensang, but it won't be announced for quite some time.
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December 4th, 2009, 14:21
Originally Posted by Gorath View Post
My guess is that Radon Labs is already working on the next Drakensang, but it won't be announced for quite some time.
I'm sure of that, because in a podcast the Watch reported earlier, Bernd Beyreuuther spoke of several more things to come … Although he didn't say what …

But I strongly believe that this franchise is just too good for not to be further followed …

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December 4th, 2009, 14:46
I certainly hope so, and look forward to each new entry!

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December 4th, 2009, 16:39
The system requirements of Drakensang 2 have been revealed two days ago: http://forum.dtp-entertainment.com/v…?f=195&t=14554

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December 7th, 2009, 19:45
Drakensang's TDE ruleset was something new and refreshing for me. Dragon Age on the otherhand felt so familiar…
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December 7th, 2009, 19:52
And least there is some documentation out there on thr TDE rules. Whereas DA, well, there's just the DA forums…..
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December 24th, 2009, 23:45
I finished some time ago Drakensang and played the first parts of DAO. The comparison is very pertinent, I have been surprised by the numerous similarities of both titles on some features that aren't so common usually.

The amount of money behind each title doesn't remove anything to the pertinence of the comparison, money never been enough to make a very good CRPG and Drakensang get enough time and money to not be a low budget game at all.

For example let take the fights and make comparison of a series of features linked to fights.

Fights:
Design of each fights:
  • DAO benefits of a higher care in this area to implement many fights so they get little features making them more interesting and more unique. But also the game avoid multiply easy fights looking too similar.
  • Drakensang also benefits of a care in fights design, many fights get their unique features but it's not pushed as deep than in DAO and sometimes Drakensang falls in the flaw of multiplying small repetitive fights and some area with regeneration of monsters increase this flaw. Overall the fight design is still very good even if strangely some players don't notice it.

Level of difficulty:
  • Both games put more challenges into the fights than we have been used to get in modern CRPG and that's a very good point.
  • DAO go even a bit further than Drakensang and that's good because it's not over a "too difficult" limit.

Pauses abuse:
  • For both games, the fights challenge and relative complexity of their system tend to involve an intensive use of pauses to solve some difficult points of some fights. But for both it ends to work rather well despite the pausing stress some fights could involve. That pausing thing isn't the perfect design but overall it work rather well for both games.

Camera management:
  • Both game have a rather similar camera system, that's weird because it's an uncommon one.
  • Both don't offer a tactical view really efficient for the fights, both because ranges are very long. For both it involves similar problems like finding an aiming hole to aim a target, and so on.
  • But for both overall it is working despite the problems and this camera system bring some plus that are rather pleasant once you are used to such system.
A (classical) design hole:
  • For both the overall system is complex enough to involve interesting fights.
  • But that's where you see DAO is the new born here, in DAO many fights become much more easy by using the old and simplistic tactic of having all heroes attacking one monster at same time and once killed, all attacking another, and so on.
  • Drakensang has a more complex fight system that struggle against this common flaw. This is achieved by involving huge penalty to a character attacked on the back and this is even increased by the injuries system.

Injury system:
  • Both use an injury system, it's a little weird they share this feeature.
  • In DAO, injuries only happen when a character fall during a fight, and the penalties are less huge than it can be in Drakensang. So in DAO this injury system is less a part of the fights design than e more general element of role playing in DAO.
  • In Drakensang injuries can happen during a fight and can be a very important element of fights. This increase fights depth but overall seems not fully well balanced because the penalties involved are quickly huge so the point is more to avoid them or clean them asap implementing only a parallel healing process to the standard health healing. It's still a plus for the fights depth.

Buffer spells elegantly replaced by Sustained spells:
  • Drakensang jump right into one of a old weakness of CRPG and even more of modern CRPG, the abuse of buffer spells. It ends in long and tedious series of buff cast to regen a buffer set of prepare a fight.
  • DAO brought an excellent system, new for me, to avoid very well this problem. It's by using state spells that keep on and reduce the max mana. That replace elegantly the buffer spells problem.

Magic during fights:
  • I haven't played enough DAO to have good overview of its magic system, but my first feeling follow.
  • Both games have limit and don't offer a wide choice you can find in some other CRPG.
  • In Drakenseng the summoning is very developed and offer many choices. But the summoning choices tend to be mainly stronger summons as you increase your spell power. It's still very nice to get summons with different graphics and features but it's not as diversified than it could be. Still in comparison it's much better than in DAO.
  • In Drakensang there's a large choice of buffer spells but DAO offer a much better system with the sustained spells. Also DAO seems to have polished more spells supporting during fights by making them significant because they are strong enough and/or target a whole area and/or target the whole team.
  • In Drakensang spells support during fights tend too often to not be efficient enough but few of the spells. This reducing a lot the real spell choices during a fight. DAO put more care to offer spells affecting the whole party or an area or with an effect strong enough.

Conclusion:
The holes in the new born system of DAO is counter balanced by a quite stronger effort in designing each fight differently. Still Drakensang doesn't demerit on this matter and offer an overall system more deep and more tuned but with a magic system that need to be improved. DAO magic system seems a bit more deep but the gap with Drakensang isn't very significant, both could offer more tuning and more tactical diversity. One important plus in DAO is the replacement of buffer spells with sustained spells, what's a weakness in Drakensang becomes a strength in DAO. For both the higher difficulty than it's used to be in modern CPRG is a very welcomed design approach. For both the overall fight system is more deep than often in modern CRPG but for both there's a lot of place for improvements, additions and more tuning.
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December 25th, 2009, 05:14
A very thorough comparison Dasale, thank you.
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December 26th, 2009, 13:46
… Which leads me to the question : Who took details from the other one … ?

I don't think that's impossible, and since Drakensang is there longer than Dragon Age, I think they might have been taking some details from there, rather than anything from other RPGs (Wounds, for example).

But all in all it's just a guess.

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December 27th, 2009, 06:37
Yes, I noticed the similalrities as well.

Considering the super long development of DA, I'd be surprised if it borrowed from Drakensang. But who knows…
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December 27th, 2009, 08:02
But what are the similarities list? And how many of them find their source in NWN2 series? Also for similarities of DAO with another game, I'd say that I'd look too to Dungeon Lords class system. For me even if you could consider this class system as a draft, it was still the best class system I ever played.

Similarities I quote between Drakensang and DAO but also with NWN2:
  • Camera control system: If I remember well NWN2 or MoTB had one option that was rather close to the camera control system of Drakensang and DAO. But those both games pushed it further by forcing the player to adapt to the new control scheme.
  • Party of 4: An old classic but bring back in mainstream by NWN2.
  • Party roster: Party members not in active team but available and continuing gaining xp, already in NWN2 series, eventually more in MoTB about the xp management. Quote that DAO pushed it further by allowing change at any time the active team.

Some shared design less clearly linked to NWN2 design:
  • Stamina system with special attacks: No stamina in NWN2, not a new design in CRPG, still a noticeable similarity.
  • Sustained states: States was already an old design in NWN2 but not with a stamina or mana use. DAO push it further than Drakensang by using too sustained spells, smart replacement for buffer spells.

Some similar design but the source could be more Dungeon Lords for DAO, and perhaps (or not) Dungeon Lords get some influence from Dark Eye p&p:
  • Talents: Even the interface design is close but DAO is even more close to Dungeon Lords with class specializations and talents links with class specialization.
  • Class specialization: In fact it's more templates and requirements in Drakensang but there's one real global specialization, magic vs non magic. In case of DAO the class specialization is very close to Dungeon Lords system. Since Dungeon lords it's an approach I expected to see more in CRPG, DAO is the first I quote that did it. DAO has only the initial class specialization and 2 specializations of 1 level requiring a master, when Dungeon lords had in fact 3 tiers specializations and was allowing 5 choices, plus there was some special specializations available in parallel. What I like in this approach is it's an excellent merge of classes specializations not offered by old school talents system, with more freedom than old school classes approach.
  • Spells like Talents: It's both interface design but also the overall approach, that looks somehow similar between Drakensang and DAO, but in fact it's also rather close to Talents in Dungeon Lords

There's certainly more similarities between Drakensang and DAO, those are those I quote and remind.

EDIT: Quote that if Drakensang benefits of a long time tuned system from a RPG p&p design, it will certainly start suffer to this links rather soon because of some more static design it will probably involve when DAO by broking any links has much more freedom for evolving in future.
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December 27th, 2009, 13:45
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
I don't think that's impossible, and since Drakensang is there longer than Dragon Age, I think they might have been taking some details from there, rather than anything from other RPGs (Wounds, for example).
Wounds are not exactly a new concept. I'm sure that we could find wounds in some of the classic single player RPGs if we looked hard enough but I know for a fact that wounds have played a major role in some MMORPGs (e.g. Star Wars Galaxies) long before Drakensang existed.
Overall it seems to me that both games, DA and DraSa, actually borrow quite heavily from the almighty WoW in the way that the interface is designed, in the way you interact with the game world and the way that status effects, skill usage etc. are handled. WoW has definitely established some standards that every RPG developer (who wants to be successful) is adhering to these days (like the way you control the camera by holding down the RMB, the way you can arrange and customize your toolbars by dragging and dropping, the way that buffs and debuffs are applied and displayed etc. etc. etc…. it's all very WoW-ish in a lot of the more recent RPGs).
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December 27th, 2009, 18:38
And yet in the official Drasa2 forums some people even want more … Someone wants an auto-target function for fighting against some "mobs" … *shudder*

I wish Gamasutra would release an article with the headline "why must everything be like WOW in terms of UI nowadays ?"

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December 27th, 2009, 20:08
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
I wish Gamasutra would release an article with the headline "why must everything be like WOW in terms of UI nowadays ?"
Hehe it doesn't require Gamasutra to answer that question. Even dumb little me can answer that and the simple answer is: Because it works!
Seriously, think about WoW what you will (I'm not a player or fan of the game either) but one has to acknowledge the fact that Blizzard pretty much nailed it. Regarding the UI they've reached a level that is pretty close to perfection. It is convenient, easy to learn and extremely customizable. It is most definitely a good thing if other developers copy Blizzard's style in that regard.
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December 27th, 2009, 22:52
Originally Posted by Dasale View Post
[*]Drakensang has a more complex fight system that struggle against this common flaw. This is achieved by involving huge penalty to a character attacked on the back and this is even increased by the injuries system.
Actually, you do get a backstab penalty and flanking penalty in DAO. Look at the circle around your character - the black part at the back is the backstab weak spot, and you will also often see flanking weak spots on the sides.

Personally, I much preferred the magic system, and general combat gameplay in DAO. The overdone TBS feeling of the "turns" in the Drasang combat got on my nerves, and magic tended to be seriously slow in regard to how many turns it took. (I had it set on pause per turn - since I'm a heavy micromanager)
I got a more flowing feel with DAO, even though I manually paused every few seconds with the harder fights.

The magic in DAO is ultimately more powerful than that in Drasang, I even gave up trying to do magic with my main in Drasang, and just equipped him with a weapon after summoning and buffing.

The magic in DAO is so cool that I'm planning a replay soon with my main as a mage.
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