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Default Dragon Age - The Good, The Bad, The Grey Wardens

March 22nd, 2010, 22:28
Greywardens.com sends word of an article titled The Good, The Bad, The Grey Wardens, which discusses morality in Dragon Age:
DA:O makes being all good or all evil extremely difficult. There is no system to reward good decisions (or evil ones), unlike the BioWare RPGs that have preceded it. In the Mass Effectworld, you have the Paragon/Renegade scale. The closer to each extreme you fall, the greater number of options you’ll have in dialogue. In Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, there’s the Light Side/Dark Side of the force, and choosing one opens up new abilities. The decisions in DA:O themselves are not so clearly bad or good. Often something that seems like a good decision at the time has unexpected, dark consequences. One word: Landsmeet.
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March 22nd, 2010, 22:29
Bah!
The Wardens are about as morally ambiguous as the Al Qaida. A bunch of self-righteous fanatics who will happily kill anyone challenging their absolute (and rather ridiculous, even though ultimatly truthful in-game) beliefs. Hated them and hated the game for denying me the choice to show them the finger early on.
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March 23rd, 2010, 01:37
Landsmeet was a false choice, just like Fallout 3 article just posted as well.

Spoilers.

All they did was force you to choose between Alistair or Loghain, the whole game before it was cut up just to pretend it was dramatic choice? Loghain chooses to sacrifice himself instead of being executed as a traitor.

Just another false choice.

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March 23rd, 2010, 01:42
More spoilers….

You can walk away from the Landsmeet without the oldest companion (except maybe the dog) that you have and that is a "false choice"???
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March 23rd, 2010, 02:26
More spoilers,


it's BioWare. What do you expect? Each company has it's own flavor they put on the games they make. They make characters (same ones every game) and the story is about them. That's their MO. I'm fine with that, they are good at what they do, nobody does it better.
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March 23rd, 2010, 04:31
Same ones every game!? (Zloth goes out to search for the Dragon Age DLC with HK-47….)
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March 23rd, 2010, 04:41
It's called the Stone Prisoner!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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March 23rd, 2010, 14:14
Originally Posted by Moorkh View Post
Hated them and hated the game for denying me the choice to show them the finger early on.
Why did you bother to play the game since you WERE A FRICKING GRAY WARDEN. That was the whole point of it. If you didn't want to be assigned a role in a story go play Darklands.
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March 23rd, 2010, 14:58
No, you're an elven commoner, a human noble or a casteless dwarf.. that's your role in the story. You can't even try not to become a warden - and that's just lack of choices.

I feel like I could… like I could… TAKE ON THE WORLD!!!
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March 23rd, 2010, 15:31
Originally Posted by Malk View Post
No, you're an elven commoner, a human noble or a casteless dwarf.. that's your role in the story. You can't even try not to become a warden - and that's just lack of choices.
You´re "A FRICKING GRAY WARDEN" with origins of your choice.
It´s not really much different from, say, Baldur´s Gate where you´re Bhaalspawn with class/race of your choice.
Except, Dragon Age lets you play the origin vignette instead of starting the game with your joining and merely putting all your personal backstory in character sheet.

However, since the game went with the playable origins route, the joining should be certainly executed better - even though inevitable in the end, player should probably have more pronounced choices to refuse it.
Still, the game gives player plenty of opportunities to roleplay their character as someone who didn´t want to join the wardens which is good enough for me.

What you think about most, is what you become.
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March 23rd, 2010, 20:28
Originally Posted by BillSeurer View Post
Why did you bother to play the game since you WERE A FRICKING GRAY WARDEN. That was the whole point of it. If you didn't want to be assigned a role in a story go play Darklands.
To be honest, when I bought the game I wasn't aware that the Wardens were such a bunch of fanatic bastards, and my charcter origin didn't exactly drive home the point that I had to join them. In fact, the whole introduction makes their motivation seem rather ridiculous (more pragmatic views other characters propose seem more plausible) and their means simply evil (lawful evil ).
I love the game for other reasons, and so I almost screamed at my screen in rage when I played and replayed that horrible joining sequence a few times, trying to find a path more suited to my character.
They could have opted to include a set of dialogue options voicing my extreme distaste with the whole procedure and foreshadowing my coming vengeful betrayal of their cause. And they could have included the option to refuse and be killed in the process to make their lack of real choice in this a bit more convincing.

Naturally, I love Darklands. Haven't played it in ages, though, and I sure never saw it to its end. But I sure like to play just a simple, insignificant mercenary thrown into a huge world beyond his means to "save" and just going my own way. Much better than yet another absurd hero saving the world…
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March 23rd, 2010, 20:54
Originally Posted by DeepO View Post
Still, the game gives player plenty of opportunities to roleplay their character as someone who didn´t want to join the wardens which is good enough for me.
True for Origins, but Awakening doesn't. Plus, the writers obviously volunteered me to be a warden commander behind my back.

I feel like I could… like I could… TAKE ON THE WORLD!!!
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March 23rd, 2010, 21:43
Originally Posted by Malk View Post
No, you're an elven commoner, a human noble or a casteless dwarf.. that's your role in the story. You can't even try not to become a warden - and that's just lack of choices.
Bohoo. So you don't want to become a warden, what then? Duncan and Alistar hunt you down or force you to drink the blood incase you get funny ideas like Ser Jory. and if you fail the joining, both grey wardens fall in the battle of Ostagar? Therefore you don' ever meet Morigan and Flemeth etc,. It is part of the storyline. You are demanding the impossible.

hey could have opted to include a set of dialogue options voicing my extreme distaste with the whole procedure and foreshadowing my coming vengeful betrayal of their cause. And they could have included the option to refuse and be killed in the process to make their lack of real choice in this a bit more convincing.
Ok this is a valid point, but I think Ser Jory's actions speak loudly what Duncan and Alistar would have done if you thought of betraying them in the joining. Atleast the cutscene convinced me that there was turning back anymore
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March 23rd, 2010, 22:28
Ha - Jory (sp?) was a weakling. They could never have bested me (I've seen Alistair fight, mind), especially had I used the commotion of Jory's murder to strike at Duncan from behin instead of just standing there, gaping amazedly…
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March 24th, 2010, 09:05
Originally Posted by Moorkh View Post
Bah!
The Wardens are about as morally ambiguous as the Al Qaida. A bunch of self-righteous fanatics who will happily kill anyone challenging their absolute (and rather ridiculous, even though ultimatly truthful in-game) beliefs. Hated them and hated the game for denying me the choice to show them the finger early on.
Ridiculous but truthful? That doesn't make sense. How can it be ridiculous to believe the truth when you have good reasons to do so?

They would probably be evil by D&D standards, but this isn't D&D. Their roughly utilitarian beliefs are just as valid as any other moral beliefs. That's one of the interesting things about cosmologies that lack moral absolutes, there's almost always an argument to support a particular course of action.
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March 24th, 2010, 14:45
Originally Posted by Dez View Post
Bohoo. So you don't want to become a warden, what then? Duncan and Alistar force you to drink the blood incase you get funny ideas like Ser Jory.
That sounds all right. It's definitely not impossible. I never said they should let players change the storyline, but they should let them try.
Ok this is a valid point, but I think Ser Jory's actions speak loudly what Duncan and Alistar would have done if you thought of betraying them in the joining. Atleast the cutscene convinced me that there was turning back anymore
Jory pulled his sword first. If he just said something like: "Sorry, I've changed my mind.", I doubt they would kill him in cold blood.

I feel like I could… like I could… TAKE ON THE WORLD!!!
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