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Default The Witcher 2 - Audio Interview @ The Cynical Brit

September 15th, 2010, 04:06
The Cynical Brit has a 25-minute (!) phone interview with Thomasz Gop from CD Project Red about The Witcher 2, with some crossover with a nudity issue at Rock, Paper, Shotgun to add some interest. As mentioned, the actual interview is a lengthy phone discussion and it has various video snippets overlaid in the background to give you something to watch.
At around the 14 minute mark, the interviewer asks about the criticism (and forum arguments) from a Rock, Paper, Shotgun GamesCom preview back in August. Here's a snip, if you don't recall:
Yet signs of a certain crudity remain, something uncertain and immature lurking underneath the surface confidence and maturity. The demo goes to great lengths to show a gritty, unpleasant world filled with suffering and dirtiness. And then, hey, boobs. Big, incongruously perfect, brazen breasts, gleaming like oiled whaleskin amidst the blood and grime covering every other surface in the game. The woman in question is a prisoner, supposedly being tortured. It’s supposed to be a harrowing moment – a mother who’s just lost her son and is now in grave danger, treated with monstrous disdain and the threat of hideous sexual violence.
Instead, it’s masturbation fodder, an unashamed invitation to admire a pixel-perfect fantasy figure. This women is supposed to be suffering, but I’m supposed to salivate. The camera lingers, closes slightly on those improbable appendages – even when Geralt dispatches her torturers-to-be, rescues her and she requests to cover her porn star body up again, we’re treated to a final titilatting jiggle, rather than a demure turnaround, as she pulls her unscathed dress back up. She doesn’t seem terribly bothered. The game doesn’t seem terribly bothered. It just wanted to show us some tits, because apparently that’s how you know a game is mature.
You might have seen this scene in the GameCom presentation videos. Apparently Thomasz Gop explains they've now re-thought that scene to find a more appropriate balance.
More information.
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September 15th, 2010, 04:06
I'm hooked.



Oh wait… was that a criticism?
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September 15th, 2010, 04:17
Me too!

Some people complain about the silliest things.
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September 15th, 2010, 07:22
Were can I watch that scene ?

C

edit:
bother
found it.
have to agree with tornnight
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September 15th, 2010, 09:01
What, does mature and politically correct suddenly mean the same? Someone forgot to send around the memo!

Anyway, if this is the main complaint about the game, it should be good!
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September 15th, 2010, 09:31
Porn star bodies are always a ++++

The immature here is not the game it is the reviewer that got hot over a pixelated character.
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September 15th, 2010, 09:50
Male fantasies tend to work with a male audience.

I'm in shock.
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September 15th, 2010, 10:45
Somehow the Witcher being a bit trashy at moments made me feel it was indeed more 'mature' than most games - especially since the general idea of maturity in mainstream games seems to simply translate to 'bucketloads of bloody blood all over the bloody place' while all the mature people I know still laugh to dirty jokes.

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September 15th, 2010, 11:08
Originally Posted by holeraw View Post
Somehow the Witcher being a bit trashy at moments made me feel it was indeed more 'mature' than most games - especially since the general idea of maturity in mainstream games seems to simply translate to 'bucketloads of bloody blood all over the bloody place' while all the mature people I know still laugh to dirty jokes.
I agree completely. Yes, I think the sex in the Witcher was a little on the gratuitous side, but that's only because there's so few games that portray it like that game and as such it stood out for it. I think the Witcher, in my eyes, portrayed it as realistic and something people aren't hung up about.

Sex might be like breathing in the world of the Witcher, so in that world it might not be a big deal - Why is it for us? It's a game set in a fictional world, a world with their social views, not ours.

It's not like Geralt bullied women into sex, is it? At the point I'm at in the first game, all the women have offered themselves somewhat willingly, either giving it to Geralt as a reward for helping them out or saving their lives or as part of the "natural" story progression.
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September 15th, 2010, 12:24
Yet signs of a certain crudity remain, something uncertain and immature lurking underneath the surface confidence and maturity. The demo goes to great lengths to show a gritty, unpleasant world filled with suffering and dirtiness.
This single quote just supports my view that people believe "dark & gritty = mature".

It's not obvious, but with "immature" they clearly mean those … "orbs" , whereas the rest is implicitely by exclusion from the immature" part) as being "mature".

What a mess !

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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September 15th, 2010, 12:53
Is that quoted guy complaining about tits being shown in a game, or tits looking too perfect?
IMHO that scene fits perfectly into the world of The Witcher. If you read the novels the game is based on (though it's a sequel to the saga), you'd see it clearly. And whole thing about Geralt's love affairs is right in place. Did you know that mutation that turns man into witchers rids them of feelings such as love? It also made Geralt more attracted to women. It fits into the dark and dirty world perfectly. There are no high ideals, there is no everlasting love; there's just egoism and striving to make live more enjoyable and pleasurable.
And yet Geralt had that one woman he kept coming back to. Her name was Yannefer, and she will not be in The Witcher 2.
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September 15th, 2010, 12:54
According to the interview, they've looked into (I dunno if they've carried through with it) changing the scene so it's less "sexual".

Sounds like a good idea, to me!
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September 15th, 2010, 13:40
Nudity in the scene in question was well done. Fitting given the circumstances, and not at all gratuitous.
The author of the quoted text is an idiot.

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September 15th, 2010, 13:42
Originally Posted by Dwagginz View Post
According to the interview, they've looked into (I dunno if they've carried through with it) changing the scene so it's less "sexual".
…so, instead of showing her tits they'll show her butt? Butt IS less sexual
Last edited by fijau; September 15th, 2010 at 15:14.
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September 15th, 2010, 13:54
Originally Posted by fijau View Post
Is that quoted guy complaining about tits being shown in a game, or tits looking too perfect?
Too perfect. In their opinion, I guess, these … "perfect orbs" shoul at least be covered by dirt and have a few scars.

Especially since - as the quote says - this woman is being tortured. It's not, I think they think, that breastsshould be taken out from torturing meanwhile the whole rest of the body is being tortured or so.

The demo goes to great lengths to show a gritty, unpleasant world filled with suffering and dirtiness. And then, hey, boobs. Big, incongruously perfect, brazen breasts, gleaming like oiled whaleskin amidst the blood and grime covering every other surface in the game.
Plus, the quote implies that a woman within this "dark & gritty" environment should also be dirty and gritty. If this was Dragon Age, I suppose they'd write she should be covered not only with dirt, but by blood also.

Plus several clearly visibe scars which heavily disturb the look of a otherway "perfect body".

The demo goes to great lengths to show a gritty, unpleasant world filled with suffering and dirtiness. And then, hey, boobs. Big, incongruously perfect, brazen breasts, gleaming like oiled whaleskin amidst the blood and grime covering every other surface in the game.
[…]even when Geralt dispatches her torturers-to-be, rescues her and she requests to cover her porn star body up again, we’re treated to a final titilatting jiggle, rather than a demure turnaround, as she pulls her unscathed dress back up.
This looks like a rather conservative look on this : A woman should not be proud of her body (no matter what), but rather hide it. I suppose there should be - according to the quote - rather be a Burqa there, too.

It just wanted to show us some tits, because apparently that’s how you know a game is mature.
This is exactly the reason why I call D&G games as "games for wannabe-grown-ups".

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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September 15th, 2010, 14:07
Originally Posted by fijau View Post
…so, instead of showing her tits they'll her butt? Butt IS less sexual
What I gathered from the interview is that they've looked into (or carried through with it) changing how she looks and how it's directed so that it's less "titillating". I think the key phrase was something like "We want it to look like Geralt doesn't want to have sex with her". I think that when it's put like that, you can kinda see why CDPR changed it. I recently did a quest in Vizima on TW:EE where I saved a Half-Elf from being beaten and, I assume, raped. She rewarded Geralt with sex. I think what they're trying to do is avoid that being the conclusion in this instance.

@Alrik; I think Dark & Gritty can be done well. In Dragon Age, it was done terribly. It was excessively bloody for no reason. Kill someone, shower of blood. Kill someone else, shower of blood. Kill another enemy and their head flies off (I think). It just got really boring after watching your character wade through a sea of blood.

I think where the Witcher does it right is more about the world and the story telling rather than the actions. There's humour in it (And if you play with English voice overs, a lot of unintentional hilarity), but it really is a "mature" world, unlike the psuedo-D&G worlds of games like Dragon Age and Gears of War.
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September 15th, 2010, 14:21
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Especially since - as the quote says - this woman is being tortured. It's not, I think they think, that breastsshould be taken out from torturing meanwhile the whole rest of the body is being tortured or so.
No need to go to that extend. If you're a torturer a you are torturing a woman you should at least make sure she's wearing a bra or something… that's what they're for.

I mean just imagine if a young child just happened to walk by and saw you torturing that topless woman! It would be emotionally scarred for the rest of its life by the sight of these naked breasts!

(I'm a very mature person, no?)

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September 15th, 2010, 14:29
Come on guys…

This game is about slaughtering people endlessly without giving it a second thought.

You're worrying about whether a woman with a nice body will be sexually arousing - just because she's being tortured?

That's what it's like to be a man.

If you can't seperate reality from fantasy, then no developer can help you
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September 15th, 2010, 14:43
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
a woman with a nice body will be sexually arousing - just because she's being tortured
This sounds somewhat.. disturbing…

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September 15th, 2010, 14:49
Originally Posted by holeraw View Post
This sounds somewhat.. disturbing…
Sure, if it was reality.

If I, for some reason, spent my time running around a dungeon and I found a beautiful woman in distress - I wouldn't start wanking, now would I.

I'd do everything I could to get her down, and assist her. Wow, that sounds wrong, doesn't it?

It doesn't mean she wasn't beautiful - and I'm pretty sure the concept of a helpless woman with a fantastic body does something to the average male.

But there's a difference between fantasy and reality.

I don't go around chopping heads off with my sword in real life either, and yet I'm not exactly traumatised because I've played violent games since early childhood.

You could argue it's tasteless, but I think it fits with the theme of the game. Certainly, I don't see it as an issue I could get excited about. Well… Not in a bad way
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