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Default Dragon Age 2 - Shorter but More Cinematic

March 2nd, 2011, 01:23
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I think it's safe to say that most people would be a bit surprised. We're not talking about a "classic" here. It's been less than 16 months since DA:O was released.
Not a classic, but surely one of the best RPGs i've played in the last five years or so.

Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I wasn't trying to imply that there was anything "wrong" about it. I'm just more of a variety guy myself.
It's all good, hope I didn't give you the wrong idea either.The whole 'full of shit' part was merely a jest, didn't get all fired up or anything.

Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Not hard to believe considering how long ago it was released. It's also quite short by RPG standards. Great game btw, it's easily in my top 10 as far as crpgs go.
Truly one of the best crpgs for me as well, easily makes it in my top 5.

Anyway, this is a thread about DA:2 - feel like saying one last thing before the release: I'll just wait for some reviews first, hopefully the watch will review it.
Last edited by Cerberus; March 18th, 2012 at 06:43.
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March 2nd, 2011, 01:23
Originally Posted by Nerevarine View Post
I guess the best way to make a game shorter and still hold a tremendous amount of value is to offer the freedom of playstyle and non-linear level design that Deus Ex and VTM:B are famous for; that way, replays can still feel like a new experience. For purely story-driven games without true C&C that has an actual effect on the story, length is definitely important, IMO. For example, a game that is linear and story-driven - even if has an elegant, well-written story - has to more than only 10 hours long to offer reasonable value for $50-60.
No joke, I remember replaying VTMB as a Malk and thinking it felt like a completely different game… Playing as a Malk was easily one of my most memorable cRPG experiences.

As for game length, as long as it is not substantially under 25 hours I don't see a problem(12-15 would not be long enough to entice me - especially @ $50-60).
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March 2nd, 2011, 02:33
Originally Posted by Cerberus View Post
Not a classic, but surely one of the best RPGs i've played in the last five years or so.
Oh I meant age-wise when I said that, it wasn't a reference to perceived quality. I personally found DA & Awakening to be above average, but nothing truly special.

I do think it was Bioware's best game since BG2, but that's not really saying much considering most of their games, imo, have been very average since then.
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March 2nd, 2011, 05:07
Consider DA2 and how its looking and the shift to a casual Action RPG lite type games. DA:O may be considered a classic in just 5 years. Who knows though maybe Bioware hears our belly aches and may choose to make their next game for the hardcore fans . Trying to keep it positive. But all in all DA:O & Awakenings was a good RPG.
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March 2nd, 2011, 06:18
While I don't even value game length much any more (Dhruin summed it up nicely), I am also apparently pretty hopeless at finishing games quickly. Currently clocking in 65 hours in DA:O, and I am still deep in the dead trenches and have yet to visit the Dalish…
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March 2nd, 2011, 06:55
I am currently playing Drakensang river of time which is supposedly far shorter than the original Drakensang but I think I already prefer river of time - more polished and detailed. Sadly I suspect that while DA2 will be more polished it make wholesale cuts (in the name of streamlining) in other areas. Most good sequels tend to have more of most things - i.e. more items/skills/spells/classes etc.

Favourite RPGs of all time: Wizardry 6, Ultima 7/7.2, Fallout2, Planescape Torment, Baldurs Gate 2+TOB, Jagged Alliance 2, Ravenloft: The stone prophet, Gothic 2, Realms of Arkania:Blade of destiny (not the HD version!!) and Secret of the Silver Blades.
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March 2nd, 2011, 06:58
Bioware keeps going further away from what I would like to see.

I don't want to watch a movie, I want to play a game.

Oh well Im not the target audience anyway anymore…good bye Bioware I enjoyed the infinity engine games.
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March 2nd, 2011, 07:21
Little off-topic: there is a way to unlock other difficulties in DA2 demo. Hard is really hard and nightmare is really nightmare. The main thing in nightmare is that even your melee attacks do damage your companions, if they are close enough to your warriors / rogues.
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March 2nd, 2011, 08:21
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
I am also apparently pretty hopeless at finishing games quickly. Currently clocking in 65 hours in DA:O, and I am still deep in the dead trenches and have yet to visit the Dalish…
I wouldn't consider that unusual for someone playing DA:O for the first time and not trying to rush through it.


Originally Posted by MrSanta78 View Post
Little off-topic: there is a way to unlock other difficulties in DA2 demo. Hard is really hard and nightmare is really nightmare. The main thing in nightmare is that even your melee attacks do damage your companions, if they are close enough to your warriors / rogues.
I probably speak for a lot of people here when I say I'd be interested in knowing how to do that. Can you post a link? A quick search didn't turn up anything for me.
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March 2nd, 2011, 09:04
There is a problem - I didn't find a way how to post a link to download. So there is a link where I found it: http://www.dragonage-cz.cz/index.php?id=176. Just click on the zde on the page and download the file. Then unpack it to Documents/Bioware/Dragon Age 2 demo/. After that it should be available to change difficulty and also you can edit yours character appearance. Maybe you should change the appearance at first and than you can change the difficulty. I am not sure, I didn't test it.
Warning: after moding the demo become a little bit unstable.
BioWare statement: the difficulty in this build is not the same as in the final build of game.
PS: I am after a 12 hrs night-shift, so my english skills are dumbed down
PPS: Feel free to post more english-like how to
Good night.
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March 2nd, 2011, 10:11
The length of the game may or may not be an issue, depending on what Bioware did.

If the game length is short *and* has filler dungeon like DA:O, go f*ck yourself Bioware. However, if the game is short but has no filler dungeons and packed with decent amount of NPC interactions and story (like Awakening), I'm fine with it. I've already given up hope of Bioware producing something as epic as Baldur's Gate II. I haven't played demo, but from most of people's reaction, I don't have high hope for it at all. I found out that my fiance preordered a copy for me (and also I'm getting bored of WoW) so I will give it a go when the copy arrives.

To be honest, I'm just hoping they don't f*ck up Mass Effect 3. I really enjoyed Mass Effect 2, and I just can't bear to see my female Shepard being disgraced by those evil Bioware.

While I'm at ranting mood, let me just add I hate what they did to Anders and Justice. From my ending, Anders stayed with wardens as a friend for many years, and so did Justice until he left Kristoff's body. So they are just completely ignoring my endings for them both, even if I'm to import my old game. Not happy.

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March 2nd, 2011, 13:13
Originally Posted by MrSanta78 View Post
PPS: Feel free to post more english-like how to
Thereīs a thread for it (links in the first post) right at Bioboards.
Also includes inventory/map unlock.
And itīs possible to check what gets imported from DA:O saves, though itīs unlikely it works properly.

Iīve finished the demo on "nightmare" with a rogue yesterday and the prologue part was certainly rather difficult and I had to use some cheese in ogre battle.
The second part of the demo, however, was comparably a lot easier.

One thing I noticed is that enemies donīt have significantly more HP than on normal, just do a lot more damage (at least thatīs how it seemed to me) and it takes longer to take them down mainly due to other changes (FF, less effective abilities and, I think, longer cooldowns).
As for friendly fire, from mages (and some rogue AoEīs) itīs quite without problems because all affected get highlighted when targeting.
Warrior abilities and basic attacks need to be evaluated by eye though and that makes especially 2-handers an uncomfortable choice for nightmare.
Companion caught in fireball FF = dead companion.
What I really liked is that enemies get caught in their FF as well (which was pretty helpful in ogre battle, for example).

Overall I rather liked it and with all the positioning and checking on cooldowns I had barely any time to notice the retarded animations.
But, as expected, it also makes insufficient camera, targeting implementation and overall frantic pace even more problematic.
Whether itīll be more hassle than itīs worth or not will depend on quality of encounter design and the amount of filler.

All these things shouldīve been unlocked in the demo from the get-go, thatīs for sure.
Last edited by DeepO; March 2nd, 2011 at 16:04.
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March 2nd, 2011, 14:32
I have trouble understanding this - why do people complain that a game is long (especially in the case of DA:O)? Is this not saying "I got too much software for my dollar"? Or "My new PC was great, but it just had way too much RAM".

DA:O had quality (most seem to think 'fairly good' and a lot think it was 'great') throughout most of it, so length was a plus. The complaint should surely be better phrased as "make the main campaign short eg 15 hours (so people with families can finish it without taking an annual vacation), but 80 hours with sidequests (for those who want it)"?

At BioWare this argument is surely music to their ears - I bet they'd love to give us what we wish for - say - 15 hours for $60, and then get us to pay $7 ten times for 40 minutes more each time.
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March 2nd, 2011, 15:35
Originally Posted by Gaxkang View Post
I have trouble understanding this - why do people complain that a game is long (especially in the case of DA:O)? Is this not saying "I got too much software for my dollar"? Or "My new PC was great, but it just had way too much RAM".

DA:O had quality (most seem to think 'fairly good' and a lot think it was 'great') throughout most of it, so length was a plus. The complaint should surely be better phrased as "make the main campaign short eg 15 hours (so people with families can finish it without taking an annual vacation), but 80 hours with sidequests (for those who want it)"?

At BioWare this argument is surely music to their ears - I bet they'd love to give us what we wish for - say - 15 hours for $60, and then get us to pay $7 ten times for 40 minutes more each time.
People aren't complaining a game is too long, they are complaining when the games length is artificially inflated due to filler content etc. Would you rather spend 20 hours a very good experience or 100 hours on a average game.

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March 2nd, 2011, 15:54
Originally Posted by Gaxkang View Post
I have trouble understanding this - why do people complain that a game is long (especially in the case of DA:O)? Is this not saying "I got too much software for my dollar"? Or "My new PC was great, but it just had way too much RAM".

DA:O had quality (most seem to think 'fairly good' and a lot think it was 'great') throughout most of it, so length was a plus. The complaint should surely be better phrased as "make the main campaign short eg 15 hours (so people with families can finish it without taking an annual vacation), but 80 hours with sidequests (for those who want it)"?

At BioWare this argument is surely music to their ears - I bet they'd love to give us what we wish for - say - 15 hours for $60, and then get us to pay $7 ten times for 40 minutes more each time.
Well, since work and family leave me very little time to actually pursue my gaming hobby, long games are simply in a way harder to enjoy. I like to finish games, see the whole story unfold. A sprawling game like DA:O might easily take me half a year to complete, and sometimes, I don't know, thats just a daunting prospect. A tighter game remains easier to follow. The story remains clearer in your mind, etc., and the wait to try one of the other cool games that have come out in the meantime isn't quite that long.
Note that my preferences were exactly the opposite when I had lots of free time to invest in gaming.
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March 2nd, 2011, 17:40
Originally Posted by rune_74 View Post
People aren't complaining a game is too long, they are complaining when the games length is artificially inflated due to filler content etc. Would you rather spend 20 hours a very good experience or 100 hours on a average game.
Yeah, this is probably why I disagree. IMHO, encounter design in Origins was the best I have seen anywhere in an RPG for the last 5 years, with the possible exception of NWN2. The sheer variety of the combat, in my opinion gave it replay value for 3 runs. For goodness sake, has no-one played Sacred 2 here?

In other threads I found 'filler combat' usually mean:
1) I played it on casual or normal, so all the mobs were just something that stood in the way of quest progression (OK I understand)
2) I played on the console where you can solo Flemeth with a rogue on nightmare
3) The game was too long generally - if it were cut to 12 hours, I would not have noticed repetition (OK I understand)
4) I personally used a template for combat which worked in many cases eg Cone of Cold + Stone Fist (OK I sort of understand, because for each person the 'template' turns out to be different)
5) Dungeon Siege 2 combat was more fun, therefore DA:O had trash mobs (I don't understand at all)
6) I played on PC on nightmare, with no mods, and found >25% of the fights to be trivial (this one gives me the most headaches - and please can I watch you play?) EDIT - except maybe the Fade and some chunks of the deep roads.

Sorry for the off-topic. This probably isn't the best place to go off on a tangent about DA1 level design.
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March 2nd, 2011, 19:42
The first step of making sense of what people are saying, is to pay attention to the words they use.
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March 2nd, 2011, 21:16
But this can be distorted by the use of languages which are not their native languages …

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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March 2nd, 2011, 21:18
Sometimes it can be distorted simply by having an agenda that everything must fit into…
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March 2nd, 2011, 22:37
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Sometimes it can be distorted simply by having an agenda that everything must fit into…
At this point I could care less since the game is released in a couple of days. Just wait and see what Masseffect 3 and DragoAge 3 will look like. I shudder at the thought every time.

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