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Default Dragon Age 2 - News Roundup #6

March 12th, 2011, 19:16
This is a thread about Dragon Age 2. If you want to discuss piracy do it somewhere else.
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March 12th, 2011, 19:33
Actually, it was more nuanced than just piracy - and Dragon Age 2 was very much a part of it.

But, I guess it's a touchy subject even for an open-mindedly moderated site like the Watch.
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March 12th, 2011, 20:26
I can see where you're coming from, and your sentiments are noble, but your arguments are fundamentally flawed, because you're only looking at the way piracy affects the "suits." (For the purposes of my argument, I'm going to keep referring to a nonspecific "you" when I refer to pirates. I'm not making any accusations)

You say you'd rather give the money directly to the developers: Nothing's stopping you. You could do a little research and send a nice letter with a check in it to your favorite programmer or artist, and actually back your words up with action. The fact that this doesn't happen just tells me that you're cloaking your laziness and selfishness in idealistic anti-capitalism. Furthermore, by buying a game, you are giving money to developers, artists, programmers, beta testers, etc.: The money that a video game company makes allows it to hire and retain talent. Yes, most of the profits are concentrated in the "suits" and that sucks, but the people doing all the work willingly signed on with the company. They got hired, signed a contract, and put long hours into what they produce, in order to make a living. By pirating a game, you pat yourself on the back and tell yourself that you're not giving money to suits that don't need it, but you're also taking money away from EA/Bioware (or whoever) employees that live on budgets, have kids and mortgages, and who are saving for their retirement. You also harm other gamers who play by the rules and actually purchase games, because developers are forced to place blanket restrictions/protections on their games in order to protect their investments, or, in a worst case scenario, they begin to develop their titles for console platforms which are at least perceived to be more secure than PCs. We all know our general feelings on consolization and DRM, and it is simply common sense that DRM, at least, wouldn't exist as it is now if people weren't stealing games. I'd be willing to bet that there'd be more PC exclusive titles, as well.

If you don't want to pay top dollar for a video game when you're worried about its quality, or if you've been repeatedly burned by a developer/publisher with their recent title releases, might I suggest waiting until the title is less expensive, more reviews have come out, and all of the bugs have been worked out of it? Maybe stop buying the product entirely? This is an argument that I hear time and time again from pirates, and I see a lot of ego-centrism in their reasoning: The only thing keeping them from buying the game at a later date is their desire for instant gratification. Case in point: I played The Witcher back in 2008, and I hated it, mainly for the writing. The parts that I could understand were so poorly written that I just couldn't keep up an interest in the game. I also took issue with some of the game's attitudes toward women, but I digress. When the Enhanced Edition came out, I heard a lot of good things about it, but since I had already purchased the title, I wasn't going to spend another $30 US on it. Instead of stealing it, I just waited for a sale, and I got it for about fifteen bucks. I haven't played it yet, but even if it still sucks, it's not like I blew the bank on it.

And while I'm on the point, we're not entitled to be able to play the game in its entirety before buying the game and finding out it sucks, just like we're not entitled to drive a car for 25,000 miles to find out whether or not the transmission is any good, or whether or not there's a manufacturer recall on it. Video games and music seem to have a lot of this "I just steal it to see if I like it, and then I buy it" mentality. The fact that I'm calling shenanigans on that argument notwithstanding, there isn't a business on the planet that is successful under that kind of warped honor system. If you've purchased a few titles from Bioware that didn't live up to your expectations, then either wait until subsequent titles are cheap enough to waste money on, or don't buy them at all.

So, as much as I can understand how one could convince themselves that piracy isn't harmful, or that it's some kind of socioeconomic statement, I don't buy it, because there hasn't been a single argument I've heard yet that holds up to any kind of critical thinking. Not paying for what someone else has produced, especially when it comes with a price tag, is theft, no matter how someone tries to justify it. Now, depending on what is stolen, and who stole it, we can argue whether the crime was moitvated by greed or self preservation. In the case of software piracy, the simple fact that you can't eat or drink a download, or cover yourself with it to escape the harshness of the elements, leaves only one possible motivation: greed. Which, of course, makes any argument demonizing the greed of Corporate America incredibly hypocritical.
Last edited by Captain Buzzkill; March 12th, 2011 at 20:45.
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March 12th, 2011, 20:26
Originally Posted by Gorath View Post
This is a thread about Dragon Age 2. If you want to discuss piracy do it somewhere else.
Sorry…I was in the middle of the post, and didn't see what you wrote.
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March 12th, 2011, 21:28
Well, another time in another thread

Oh, and if that's what you call putting aside your personal prejudices - then we must have different notions on that subject. Being too passionate can make you blind. If I were to express my opinion about the obvious hypocrisy of the average "law-abiding" consumer, particularly regarding the actual legality of his combined lifestyle - then we'd have a very fruitless debate very quickly
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March 12th, 2011, 21:34
I think the overall issue is some people (like myself) see it as a simple wrong. It's always wrong, games are not a need they are a want, it is never okay to take them without paying. For people like me it is very hard to even consider any justification because we don't see it as justifiable in any way what-so-ever.

Anyway, that's my last word.
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March 12th, 2011, 21:39
Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative View Post
I think the overall issue is some people (like myself) see it as a simple wrong. It's always wrong, games are not a need they are a want, it is never okay to take them without paying. For people like me it is very hard to even consider any justification because we don't see it as justifiable in any way what-so-ever.

Anyway, that's my last word.
I realise that's your position, but it's not a position that lends itself well to outside-the-box thinking.

If it's automatically wrong, then it's useless to even argue about it.

Such a position is like saying you've considered all possible angles, and there's no way it could even theoretically be a good thing - so that's that.

I don't think in that way about many things, as I've found that such certainties are generally more comfortable assumptions than a wholesome look at the realities of life.
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March 12th, 2011, 21:40
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
Trying to ignore how much I hated all the marketing and PR crap from EA around this game and trying to just look at the game itself, I am finding it entertaining and good but not great.
At this point I am giving it a 7.5 as somewhat of a random average of various components.
I'm having a similar experience. I chose to rent the PS3 version and treat it like a console-y action game. I'm playing as an archer-leaning rogue and just machine-gunning my way through the baddies, with the occasional pause to reset tactics, etc. Played this way, and with extremely lowered expectations (that's the key), the game is a solid 7.5 action RPG (i.e., an entertaining rental, if more than a tad uninspired). I played Dragon Age: Origins on the PC and found it quite enjoyable. This is not that game.
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March 12th, 2011, 21:44
Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative View Post
If games like Dragon Age 2 are so bad in your opinion that they will "ruin the industry" then you have no need to play them.
Exactly.

Buying it will make EA or Bioware just believe you like it.

And pirating and STILL playing it has a similar effect : "the game must be so good he/she/it refuses to buy it BUT STILL PLAYS IT !"

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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March 12th, 2011, 22:01
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Pirating a game or simply not buying it, is exactly the same in the eyes of the dev/publishers. They have no idea whether you play it or not, so it's a lost sale regardless.
They might not know exactly who is pirating, but the numbers can be tracked.
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March 13th, 2011, 08:33
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I realise that's your position, but it's not a position that lends itself well to outside-the-box thinking.
And sometimes "outside-the-box thinking" is just a way to muddle simple truths. There is a great line in The West Wing where the chief of staff says "he's a murderer so we have to end him, the construction worker comes to this obvious conclusion before the Nobel prize winner because the genius over-thinks it."

I'm paraphrasing of course.

Taking something that is not a need and created by another without paying them for their work is always wrong. I see it as a black and white issue. I do not think that is a failure of critical thinking or, as we call it in sociology, an example of second-level thinking. It's just a plain and simple wrong.
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March 13th, 2011, 10:53
Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative View Post
And sometimes "outside-the-box thinking" is just a way to muddle simple truths. There is a great line in The West Wing where the chief of staff says "he's a murderer so we have to end him, the construction worker comes to this obvious conclusion before the Nobel prize winner because the genius over-thinks it."

I'm paraphrasing of course.

Taking something that is not a need and created by another without paying them for their work is always wrong. I see it as a black and white issue. I do not think that is a failure of critical thinking or, as we call it in sociology, an example of second-level thinking. It's just a plain and simple wrong.
No need to repeat your position, as I already got it.

As I said, I don't think in black and white terms - but I'm not saying my way is superior or more helpful.

It's not a competition.

To me, to support a point of view - you have to present why, and if you don't - there's no amount of repeating that you're right or that others are wrong that will change anything - no matter what was said on a TV show.

I don't care if you're a construction worker or a deity. Either you can support your point of view with rational arguments or you can't.

But obviously, this isn't the place for it. Gorath pointed out that it's a DA2 thread - and that's that.
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March 13th, 2011, 12:56
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
As I said, I don't think in black and white terms - but I'm not saying my way is superior or more helpful.
For the record I am not someone who thinks in black and white terms generally, I tend to be well known for seeing both sides. My education and profession both concentrate on seeing a lot of sides and the causes of opinions and such.

I just don't think taking creative works without compensating the creators is justifiable due to the very nature of creative work.
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March 14th, 2011, 21:20
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Originally Posted by purpleblob
And what might be that Awesome button I am missing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMcVZQI6ybw
This.

I mean, the guy is so adamant, that the only explanation MUST be that a button is missing.
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