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View Poll Results - Preferred Death System?

Traditional permanent death 307 63.43%
Hardcore mode 46 9.50%
Miraculous resurrection 10 2.07%
Japanese miracle 6 1.24%
Waiting for a miracle 2 0.41%
Everyone's a medic 87 17.98%
Casper system 18 3.72%
Hybrid/Cocktail 8 1.65%
Voters: 484. You may not vote on this poll

Default Death systems

November 22nd, 2008, 17:12
The new King's Bounty has an odd twist in that it actually seems to reward you for dying (as long as you are near castle). IIRC the original King's Bounty did the same thing, but with the idea of helping you get back on your feet again. IT may have been why it took me only 10 hours to play it. In the new version I always restarted if I got that option - it feels too much like cheating.

Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
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November 24th, 2008, 09:01
The reason they make it like this is because otherwise it could be impossible to complete the game. If you were out of money, and there was no fight you could win, you'd have to restart the game after more than 40 hours of playing, I think the developer though it would be too punishing to do it in this way. You can still get game over in several boss fights, and the fights inside items etc etc.
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November 29th, 2008, 17:35
One thing I do in my bleed down system (Nwn1) is have a percent chance based on con that you will recover a few hp's and slowly recover, get divine intervention which gives you d4 x your level back, so you are only at 0 for a round, since the bleeding is still firing if hp < 1. If monsters are not still hitting you when you are down you have about a 60% chance of surviving. If you expire you have the hardcore choice to respawn in the field or the normal choice which is to respawn at the undertakers.

I remember Darklands where you age, and I remember going back to the Monster
Allocation area to collect a dead party, from Wizardry. I guess what I am saying is that death should mean something, but not be a showstopper. I am thinking of implementing a 25 deaths you must retire script. A counter starts up after 5th level. every time you die after that it falls by 1. So on respawn you get the message death count 24, 23, 22, etc…When it falls to 0 you are done.
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December 1st, 2008, 08:02
I HATE that idea, especially in your tough mods. I think if that happened to someone, they would quit the mod/game and never return. Perhaps it's my age, but I don't have time to waste; I NEVER begin a game again, that would mean all the time previously invested was wasted and I can't afford that. Hardcore is for the young. People like me with slow reaction time, etc struggle with fast combat and as you have seen, we tend to die a LOT!! Oh for the joys of TB

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December 3rd, 2008, 19:08
In Akella's "Hard To Be A God" the player character actually has to die to be able to continue in dialogue with the gods of another world, then following the outcome he returns to 'earth' now as a god but in human form. From then on it is supposed to be hard being a god (not to do wrong as a human) and to redeem situations now 'knowing' he is a god (eg: diplomacy) That was in following the excellent story by the two Strugatsky brothers, in reality the game was too easy as indeed it was a story converted into a game - you know the sort of thing - 'follow-the-story-to-finish-the-game'.

So i didn't vote, i view that the flow of some game's dictate the methodology or death requirement more than my own preferrences.
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December 17th, 2008, 15:29
Wulf, that brings up the second purpose of this poll.

With all the known ideas in a Death system, including immortality, bleeding system, etc. what would people like to see as an alternative? Are there any ideas not pursued by developers that you think would work?

Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
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December 17th, 2008, 16:55
Wanted to add to the comment I made earlier about not liking NWN2's death system. I'm playing MotB right now, and while I still like the death system of BG better, one thing I DO like about NWN2 is how the PC can be 'killed' but it doesn't end the game. That was one thing that always annoyed me about BG. It didn't matter how many Rod of Resurrections or Resurrection spells you had, even if everyone else in the party was untouched, the game ended if the PC died.

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December 23rd, 2008, 17:38
Corwin: Yeah my friend does not like it either. Considering my world too I would probably not implement such a system. Just a thought.
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December 23rd, 2008, 23:27
Yes, I think one week you died more than I did, IN YOUR OWN MOD!!

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December 28th, 2008, 11:21
Lucky Day makes an excellent gesture of topic progression so i'll give it a try.
………………………………………….. ………………………………………….. ……….
It seems we are applying real-life theology to death in games as indeed in our own lives there are only two states (a) life or (b) death.

Many modern games seem to rely on this realism and yet IMHO older games contained more of that most important of gaming elements - "fantasy" which opens up other avenues of death or dying within the main storyline of a game.

Somewhere in between 'alive' and 'dead' is a grey fantasy area of semi-dead, undead, spirits, wraiths, ghosts etc' and although there were/are games with vampire hero's or werewolf types as the main player character, the scenario's where a hero player dies and then continues after death say as a ghost are few.

For example, a hero killed butchered or poisoned by an unknown assassin could in theory (eg: magically kissed by their guardian angel) continue within a storyline as a spirit/ghost to seek out his killer, maybe having to find a magical way to come back to real life or even then to finally die real after a bitter-sweet revenge.

Obviously, faeries, nymphs, dryads, angels, and many other fantasy types fall into this unreal or 'other-life' fantasy slot.

I't sometimes nice to get away from the traditional death method, fantasy has more branching possibilities than realism within death systems when related to the main hero player character.
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December 28th, 2008, 16:31
I think why developers might shy away from such a concept is simply that some people would not prefer to play as a ghost or such. I personally would not, and if that was the inevitable outcome of dying, it would probably keep me from playing the game. It just simply isn't my cup of tea.

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December 28th, 2008, 23:03
It might work for one game and be an interesting experience, but I doubt it could be sustained beyond that.

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December 30th, 2008, 21:15
In a game like TOEE where I have complete control of all my party member's actions I like a traditional death system. In a game such as NWN2 where the computer AI takes control of my party members I like something more forgiving. i.e. If the game does not allow me complete tactical control, I resent having to deal with the results of that lack of control.
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January 21st, 2009, 01:36
How is Traditional and Jap diffrent, they both load from save points weather you offer them a choice or not.

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January 21st, 2009, 02:45
@wulf - this is exactly the sort of thing I'm getting at and my experience with NWN1 and MMORPG's makes death a legitimate part of the game - even being immortal in the case of PS:T was essential IIRC.

In a proper commercial SP setting these are ideas that have hardly been explored whereas in MMORPG's they are ideas that are necessary in order not to lose a customer. The original Wheel of Time mod in NWN1 by RobD had draconian rules such as one player, and one death per day. Let's just say that the WoT mod I took over quietly ran that one to the ground.

Imagine a pay to play game with such hardcore policies. Would you play there?

Its the Multiplayer death paradigm that makes me realize something else can be done with the Singleplayer where death can not only be an intricate part of advancing the story but even a mini-game, a creative way to play differently, or a traditional deterrent to play "correctly" but done in a different way.

[spoil] In Bioware's Pirate mod for NWN the players there must die and become undead in order win the game and not be killed under the sea.[/spoli]

@coffin - the descriptions of what we mean by the systems is clearly stated in Dhruin's first post.
# Traditional permanent death - player must load a previous save
# Miraculous resurrection - player returned to start point
# Japanese miracle - returned to previous check point (player may only save at these points)
I realize that many Japanese RPG's use more traditional systems but it was there that pushing to save points became popular, almost as if they were arcade games.

Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
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January 21st, 2009, 15:34
Yes Lucky Day - but by the very use of the word 'death' some gamers would say 'yuk' - you can see how Jabberwocky's and Corwin's reactions understandably reflect how most gamers might also react by default. In such death-role/guise situations, shakey players would probably have to be 'taken by the hand' of the game writer probably with no open-ended variables? initially until the death role concept gains acceptable gaming consent (if there's such a thing). Yet as a total death playing concept (eg; permanent) role and not temporary (as:to shape-shift etc') it may well become more usable and accepted in the future?

In the link below read about "Characters coping with death: Possession" …
how Raymond E. Feist refers to the mind of the character when close to death (in gaming) and also "ageing" rather than dying in combat…there are definitely openings for utilising the dead or semi-dead role play concept.

http://www.gamedev.net/reference/art…hAndKarma.html

Immortality and/or the ability to be killed would be dependent on storyline, even voluntary euthanasia might also be possible! - yet i suppose it must always remain credible to the story concept rather than game-play death.

Edited:- 1st March 2009

Just as an addition and to show how some undead types/themes have been utilised - here's a wiki' list of some such games and not only rpg types.

The Witcher is in there (with no description)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of…ed_video_games
Last edited by Wulf; March 1st, 2009 at 22:49.
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May 20th, 2009, 20:13
I voted "Japanese system" (though I don't play JRPGs), thinking of a system like Realms of Arkania being an improvement over 'traditional death'.

Basically it's half-way between traditional and hard-core. It means that you will never save/reload for trivial things (such as one fight, or a random event going the wrong way) and saves/reloads are for major things only… big story plot divergences and very bad defeats (like losing half your party). If you just lost one character out of six you might even continue without reloading because of the effort that goes into a dungeon and the rewards you gained make up for the loss.

It makes you think about what you're doing without being completely frustrating (dying right at the end of an iron-man game due to bad dice rolls).

Spending XP to save can also be a good idea as long as it's not too much.
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March 23rd, 2011, 02:47
This really depends on the style of game in question. For instance, in faster paced games like Mass Effect, combat is chaotic enough that you could easily be forced to redo days of game play thanks to a lucky shotgun blast under "hardcore" rules.

I think for most games a manual save system with specific (although fairly generously available) save locations works well for most games. This includes both the seemingly random globes in some Final Fantasy games, and those games that only let you save when not in a dangerous area. This significantly punishes the person that rushes blindly in, without really hindering those that put some forethought to it.
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August 30th, 2014, 22:26
-> Hardcore mode

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
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August 30th, 2014, 22:51
I like the idea of a game not "ending," i.e. loading screen, or even worse, reverting to a checkpoint *shivers*.

There is a wonderful mod for Skyrim called Death Alternative that is very well-done. You have the choice of configuring it how you want, but it can be quite dynamic. Basically, you can still be "punished" for dying based on the situation. Here's just one basic example: If bandits defeat you, you might wake up on the side of the road with all of your gold or even your equipment stolen.

It adds a nice bit of flavor and an additional gameplay layer that I greatly enjoy over simply reloading my last save. It's also easier to stomach playing a game on higher difficulty settings knowing that you won't go through a gauntlet of reloading.

Mount and Blade has a similar feature where you can be captured by the army that defeats you.
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