Do you abstain from paying $60 for PC games?

Now now, behave and be good little consumers!

Originally Posted by Icefire
How in the hell is that the same as piracy? If I buy an original disc of the game, than the publisher/developer was already paid for that game disc, unless in the rare instance it was stolen originally. It is nowhere near the same as making copies of the games and selling those off. Not even close. It is no different than selling anything else used, from a cd to a car.

They're trying to float the idea that in both cases, piracy and used sales, the publisher/developer gets nothing.

What they fail to understand or mention however is that used sales drive new sales. As much as I dislike Gamestop when they say that line they're right. A ton of people sell old games to get the money to buy new ones. A lot of other people might not buy a new game for full price without knowing they can sell it if they dislike it.

Of course if you run a digital distribution model the right way, like Steam, you can convince people the lack of resale and DRM is getting them bonuses and abilities that are worth the trade-off. I have little doubt a similar service to Steam for the consoles would be accepted on the same basis, killing off resale. I would be shocked if the next console generation does not do such a thing.

Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative
They're trying to float the idea that in both cases, piracy and used sales, the publisher/developer gets nothing.

What they fail to understand or mention however is that used sales drive new sales. As much as I dislike Gamestop when they say that line they're right. A ton of people sell old games to get the money to buy new ones. A lot of other people might not buy a new game for full price without knowing they can sell it if they dislike it.

Of course if you run a digital distribution model the right way, like Steam, you can convince people the lack of resale and DRM is getting them bonuses and abilities that are worth the trade-off. I have little doubt a similar service to Steam for the consoles would be accepted on the same basis, killing off resale. I would be shocked if the next console generation does not do such a thing.

You don't have to wait for the next generation. With Portal 2 steam will come to the PS3.

Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative
Of course if you run a digital distribution model the right way, like Steam, you can convince people the lack of resale and DRM is getting them bonuses and abilities that are worth the trade-off. I have little doubt a similar service to Steam for the consoles would be accepted on the same basis, killing off resale. I would be shocked if the next console generation does not do such a thing.

You're showing your 'box bias'

For me Steam's ability to insta-install is well worth the lack of resale, but I get a new gaming laptop every year, so I am paying for resale with time and storage. Everyone has a value proposition that is unique.

But I agree - and why wait for next gen? DLC is the tether - as is EA's 'project $10' and Sony's 'Online Pass', now used by EA/Bioware. In each of these cases you can get 'the game', but without spending extra money you are very limited. Like getting ME2 without Cerberus Network … you get to spend $15 for the privilege to buy over-priced DLC.

Originally Posted by txa1265
You're showing your 'box bias'

I don't care much about resale but I do have the mindset of buying a game as a product, in a box, and that being "it." I don't like the idea of services and subscriptions. I do buy Steamworks games and such, but only because I know I can find a Steam-less version someday if I need to.

For me Steam's ability to insta-install is well worth the lack of resale, but I get a new gaming laptop every year, so I am paying for resale with time and storage. Everyone has a value proposition that is unique.

If you have the cash to spend on a gaming laptop every year, it's probably easier to not care about Steam's ridiculous prices - especially for EU customers

A "value-proposition" of paying that much for being able to re-install directly, without having to download the client first - is certainly unique to my experience.

I have a fast connection, and I assume you must have one as well - so not having to download the game before installing saves you VERY little.

But of course, if that's the kind of thing you think is worthwhile - then it just demonstrates how far away from certain dispositions I am - in terms of what represents good value

Originally Posted by txa1265
The whole 'who pays what, from whom, and when' discussion is actually pretty interesting … and made moreso by publishers/developers who say buying a used game is the same as piracy as far as they are concerned.

Originally Posted by Icefire
How in the hell is that the same as piracy?

Originally Posted by JDR13
It's not piracy, it's just a mentality that publishers are trying to spread while looking for ways to increase their profit margins.

Now the philosopher kicks in : How did such a concept evolve in the first place ?

WHY are they actually damning second hand markets / used games as"being similar to piracy" ?

Why ? What kind of thinking is needed to come up with such a concept ?

And even worse : What does this kind of thinking tell us (of) how the companies are thinking of US - of US CUSTOMERS ?

What kind of idea of man is behind that ? As what are we … defined … by the corporate business ?

Are we no more than numbers ? Is there a bit of humanity left in there ? Is the idea of man so much distorted that we get classes which are meant to only consume and to consume only ? Cattle ?

The number of people who line up to kiss the ass of corporations is astounding really. Read any article on Kotaku about used sales or the PS3 jailbreak or whatever and there will be dozens of comments about it not being fair to the corporations and how used sales are evil.

Now, if you buy EVERYTHING used to save a buck I might think you're kind of a twit, but I fully support your right to do so.

While I certainly prefer to buy my games new, I don't look down on people who don't. It's ignorant to judge others on something like that without knowing their financial situation.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer
Now the philosopher kicks in : How did such a concept evolve in the first place ?

WHY are they actually damning second hand markets / used games as"being similar to piracy" ?

Why ? What kind of thinking is needed to come up with such a concept ?

And even worse : What does this kind of thinking tell us (of) how the companies are thinking of US - of US CUSTOMERS ?

What kind of idea of man is behind that ? As what are we … defined … by the corporate business ?

Are we no more than numbers ? Is there a bit of humanity left in there ? Is the idea of man so much distorted that we get classes which are meant to only consume and to consume only ? Cattle ?

I think it is a function of so many game companies having trouble making ends meet. Pirates are easy to blame, but difficult to target or do anything about. 2nd hand buyers feel like they are doing a legitimate transaction (and IMO they are) and are easy to blame, and more importantly, easy to target.

I doubt a company that has enough 1st hand sales to enjoy a comfortable profit margin is going to complain too loudly about 2nd hand purchases, but a company that is operating in the red, but sees their game selling well in the 2nd hand market is going to view that as a major threat.

Originally Posted by JDR13
While I certainly prefer to buy my games new, I don't look down on people who don't. It's ignorant to judge others on something like that without knowing their financial situation.

I use the Goozex trading site quite a bit - heck, ~15 of the 20 games we gave my older son with his X360 were from there! I fault no one for used games - it is no different than other media in my mind, and the economic model is the same.

The only place I judge is based on piracy.

The people holding the reigns are the people who benefit directly from the perception that anything resulting in less revenue, is immoral.

From there, it's not hard to understand how and why the average human being supports the people in power.

Perception is reality.

Lol so you learned us that you aren't a part of average human being. Very interesting to learn you are part… of what? the "elite"? Of what?