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Default Avadon - Windows Version Released

May 4th, 2011, 21:12
Originally Posted by Brother None View Post
I'm not sure I get this remark. Avadon attempts very blatantly to emulate stuff BioWare does, only BioWare does it with better production values. It doesn't succeed as well as Geneforge and Avernum at filling a specific niche.
It was time someone implement rather deep companions other than Bioware or Obsidian taking a Bioware crown in a series.

Apart that I don't see where is your Bioware stuff:
  • Winning about DA2 an action RPG is irrelevant here.
  • Winning about map reuse like in DA2 and ME1 is irrelevant here.
  • Whining about companions being dead puppets and joke machines out of camp like in DAO, irrelevant here.
  • Whining about linear dungeons and small maps like in most Bioware games, irrelevant here.
  • whining about bland exploration with no stuff to discover in Bioware games, irrelevant here, I don't think a RPG have more good secrets to discover, perhaps some Avernum. There's also multiple tricks but I admit not many are difficult, but it's not Bioware stuff, now Bioware skip that point almost entirely.

So what, because there's 4 classes, specializations, and codex? Lol it's winks:
  • Jeff is using Codex since a long time and just copied the name and giving xp. There's nothing wrong nor major in doing it.
  • Ok only four classes remind the 3 classes of DA, and specialization remind something. But that's just words the mechanism of classes and specializations are hugely different than in DA. And specialization general idea isn't even a Bioware invention, there's at least Dungeon Lords that did it a long time before, and probably more other older RPG. For example AD&D did it even if in a strange way.
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May 4th, 2011, 21:14
Just started the game - is it normal that there are no background sounds in the houses of the city Goldcrag ?

I can hear background sounds in the streets and at the countryside.

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May 4th, 2011, 22:31
Originally Posted by Dasale View Post
I haven't fully played Avernum 6 but a large part, a question have you played Avernum 1?
Never played any Avernum, just Geneforge. Said number 6 for no special reason, just because is the last.
Maybe I'll try Avernum after Avadon.
I still haven't played Avadon, but remember when I finished playing the demo of Geneforge 5, that I was quite addicted to the TB combat, gameplay and story. I ended up, having the impression, that the interest grows on you as you're advancing. I had to buy it, immediately.
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May 5th, 2011, 02:13
Originally Posted by Dasale View Post
It's clear Jeff write a lot better than those in Eschalon. That's terrible to even one second think it's the reverse. But yes, it's more diluted writing than in a Bioware or Obsidian, certainly much less time than a little army of writers working for a Bioware/Obsidian game and for sure when those writer teams succeed their writing job, it's not often Jeff could even compare a bit.

But again, during months, I have read ton of boring whiners posts about Bioware games but that's just fake and lies. Huge dungeons, complex maps, polished fights, and more, all of that isn't that important, the proof it means nothing for those whiners or most of them.
It is terrible trying to figure out what you are saying Eschalon does a god job in the writing, I would say on the same level as spiderweb…eschalon does a lot better in the graphics department, and it's not even close.

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May 5th, 2011, 03:52
Originally Posted by rune_74 View Post
It is terrible trying to figure out what you are saying Eschalon does a god job in the writing, I would say on the same level as spiderweb…eschalon does a lot better in the graphics department, and it's not even close.
When I tried the Echalon2 demo I couldn't believe there was no widescreen mode for it which made it an automatic fail for me graphic wise.
Avadon looks a lot better to me just for that reason alone, heck even the old games I get on GOG.com all have widescreen fixes now.

But overall I really like all the improvements Jeff has done to the graphics, a much more organic look to the tile sets as well as all the interface improvements.
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May 5th, 2011, 20:02
Avadon is only 12.95 pounds on direct2drive.co.uk right now - though you should keep in mind that probably means the developer won't receive as much as if you buy directly from his own site.

It's tempting, but the demo REALLY put me off this game.

*EDIT*

It's 12.95 - sorry.
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May 5th, 2011, 20:10
My thoughts from rpgcodex (ignore all "most people here" etc directed to others):

I like it so far. It's different to Geneforge and Avernum and after 5 of the former and 6 of the latter I can't blame the guy. I doubt most people here criticising the "dumbing down" and concerning themselves more with his marketing and if he can or can't attract a more mainstream audience or whatever else than the actual game have bought all his previous titles which weren't so. Anyway, my first impression from the demo:

I'm getting the hang of it, I levelled up once and saw how the core stuff works. The game is quickly drawing me in and I can already see the sinister potential the story holds under the introductory fluff I have to go through. It might not look it, but it's been a joy to play after I got over the initial annoyances and disappointment with certain details. I like the glimpses of the setting and characters that I've seen and I don't mind not creating my party for the 100th time, they seem to start at level 1 anyway so I can evolve them as I see fit. If they're well integrated in the story is all that will matter to me and I've seen glimpses that hint this is the case as well. It's too early to say much more than that. So far I'm happy with it. If that will change in the future, if it never grows to be what it has the potential to be, remains to be seen. But if I don't like it by the end it will probably have little to do with the "dumbing down" and be all about how the setting, story, choices and challenge will be handled from now on. You know, the important bits.
http://i.picpar.com/f83427727b3e75d3…6c4ba46981.png
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Anyway, he'll probably make another series that will be more in line with the mechanics of his previous titles as well (if not continue themselves), for those who don't like this one. So the guy tried some different things after 17 years, running around screaming betrayalton is a little short sighted. Vote with your money or offer constructive criticism (based on your own experience rather than what you read on teh internets), anything else should be beneath any self respecting CRPGer. In the end you either like it, hate it and wait for something that works for you, or like parts of it and suggest how to improve the rest.
Last edited by Al3xand3r; May 6th, 2011 at 20:31.
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May 5th, 2011, 21:36
I never played the demo but learned it stops during the first main big official mission. You already have a good overview of the game at this point. But myself at this point it hadn't grow on me at full strength. It's during the second main big mission I got fully in love with the game. The game is really slow to grow in interest, it's just solid stuff and becomes more interesting as it progress, but it's slow. This is a sort of design failure, beginning of anything should grab you badly.

But the demo design is a huge error, it should have include something like first main big mission and half of second main big mission. Some players would never reach the game up to this point but at least, in my opinion, this would have let the chance to other players to see the game in a state more closer to its real potential of interest and fun.

My 2 cents for those not satisfied by the demo:
  • So if you are close to your money or want avoid support such game if you don't find it very good, then find a way, borrow it to a friend, tell your sister it's a hidden Sim, threaten your young brother if he doesn't buy it, hypnotize your grand mother to make her buy you the game, find a way so you could play the game up to second big main mission.
  • Don't use a too high resolution, with a lower resolution the game looks better and much better than Avernum at similar low resolution. It's important so you could see more details like secrets and identify stuff more easily, but also I think it's better for the mood.
  • On start or right after first dungeon, set difficulty to Hard. It's another design error, Hard is in fact Normal difficulty.
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May 6th, 2011, 00:52
Originally Posted by Dasale View Post
I never played the demo but learned it stops during the first main big official mission.[/LIST]
I've forgotten exactly where it stops but I'm sure you don't get to access the Wretch Lair. I think it would have helped a lot to be able to *complete* that first mission.

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May 6th, 2011, 00:59
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
I've forgotten exactly where it stops but I'm sure you don't get to access the Wretch Lair. I think it would have helped a lot to be able to *complete* that first mission.
That's right it's a point but in my point of view, the main point is that the second big mission shows something rather different and it would have been great to show that diversity in the demo, at least a part of that mission.
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May 6th, 2011, 16:10
Originally Posted by Brother None View Post
Not just the demo, in my opinion. The difficulty remains way too low. I'm playing it at insane right now and it's still a snooze-fest. It does get more interesting, but the difficulty doesn't start spiking until way, way into the game.
I just got done playing a little of the beginning in Torment difficulty and was summarily pounded. Sure the giant rats and spiders were no problem, but when I came upon the wretches and thugs I didn't last long.

I played as a shaman. I liked the wolf, but don't like the lack of skills. One thing that was always appealing to Jeff's games is that I could choose to put points into whatever skill I wanted or put on any armor/weapons I wanted. Sure there was a penalty for some of the skills and it may not have been wise to equip a true shaper with a sword when I could increase magic skills easier than physical ones, but it was always an option.

So far I like it. It's not exactly what I expected from a Vogel title, but it's not that far off either.

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May 7th, 2011, 04:37
I figured out the problem was the Open GL graphics with my demo. I just downloaded the Direct X version and its a night and day difference. The game looks really good. I can't believe the way it looked before with lines all over the screen and washed out blurry graphics but I still thought it was good enough to play the game, but now it is nicely polished and I can actually make out small details. Its of course not up to the standards of say Baldur's Gate's hand painted backgrounds, but its damn good for an indie game!

I'm surprised they don't give the Direct X version as the default for Windows version, it shouldn't be as hard to find as it was for me. You have to go to an obscure "support and updates" page to find this version, and then download it separately and move it into the Avadon folder. It really shouldn't be this much trouble to do all this in my opinion, it might put off casual people from buying the game.

My little rant over with, I'm really enjoying the demo. Its a lot better than I thought it would be given the negative comments about it. To me, its a must buy for an old school rpg player. It reminds me of Basilisk Eschalon game, but with a big difference, you can have more than one person in your party, which makes combat much more interesting.
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May 9th, 2011, 00:43
Wow … seldom has the phrase "We have met the enemy and he is us" been more applicable …

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May 9th, 2011, 01:22
Originally Posted by Dasale View Post
Apart that I don't see where is your Bioware stuff:
Your comparisons are all about BioWare's most recent creations which I don't think is where Jeff is coming from, other than maybe DA:O. The comparison comes from the fact that Jeff has said himself in his blog numerous times that he admired this or that from what BioWare was doing and now does a lot of it in Avadon. Companions, meaningless dialog choices, a jump-in-and-go-along character system, protecting the player from his own choices. Avadon is kind of like Avernum with a big gooey BioWare paste all over it.

I just got done playing a little of the beginning in Torment difficulty and was summarily pounded. Sure the giant rats and spiders were no problem, but when I came upon the wretches and thugs I didn't last long.
I guess that's just a difference in approach. You know the part where you're supposed to avoid a TON of wretches and sneak around instead? I did that first playthrough, but now for giggles I figured I'd go in and fight them headon, on Torment difficulty. Dozens of wretches later, I had got through using a skill only about half a dozen times and no items whatsoever.

I really am not a fan of this game's difficulty or combat structure.

So far I like it. It's not exactly what I expected from a Vogel title, but it's not that far off either.
It's not. That's what's kinda getting snowed under. It still offers a lot of what many people like about Vogel games. But after his last two, I can't help but feel a bit let down.
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May 9th, 2011, 09:41
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Wow … seldom has the phrase "We have met the enemy and he is us" been more applicable …
Clarify, please.
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May 9th, 2011, 11:22
I figured out the problem was the Open GL graphics with my demo. I just downloaded the Direct X version and its a night and day difference. The game looks really good. I can't believe the way it looked before with lines all over the screen and washed out blurry graphics but I still thought it was good enough to play the game, but now it is nicely polished and I can actually make out small details. Its of course not up to the standards of say Baldur's Gate's hand painted backgrounds, but its damn good for an indie game!

I'm surprised they don't give the Direct X version as the default for Windows version, it shouldn't be as hard to find as it was for me. You have to go to an obscure "support and updates" page to find this version, and then download it separately and move it into the Avadon folder. It really shouldn't be this much trouble to do all this in my opinion, it might put off casual people from buying the game.

My little rant over with, I'm really enjoying the demo. Its a lot better than I thought it would be given the negative comments about it. To me, its a must buy for an old school rpg player. It reminds me of Basilisk Eschalon game, but with a big difference, you can have more than one person in your party, which makes combat much more interesting.
Aha, that's probably the problem I had too!!! any link to the directX version???
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May 9th, 2011, 13:25
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
Aha, that's probably the problem I had too!!! any link to the directX version???
ftp://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/win/AvadonDX.zip

Avadon is, graphically, not a very demanding game. However, some systems, due to hardware or video driver problems, have been having trouble running it at an acceptable speed. Other systems have displayed odd or corrupted graphics. Should the game not run correctly for you, follow the steps below:

If you are using the newest version of Avadon, you might have a corrupted game file. Uninstall the game, redownload the installer, and reinstall. Don't skip uninstalling!
Open the Settings window on the title screen. Set Game Area Size to Small and Graphics Extra Details to Don't Draw.
If these steps don't help, try running the DirectX version of Avadon. This can be downloaded here. Move it into Program Files/Spiderweb Software/Avadon and run it.
Download the newest versions of your video card drivers and install them. Do this even if you think you have the newest version. Driver files and settings can sometimes become damaged or corrupted.
Don't run any other applications at the same times as Avadon.
If your system is fairly old or underpowered (particularly if it has 256 MB RAM or less, an Intel GMA graphics processor instead of a video card, or a video card over six years old), the game will probably always run slowly. Using Fast Graphics Mode will help.
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May 9th, 2011, 15:31
Originally Posted by Brother None View Post
Avadon is kind of like Avernum with a big gooey BioWare paste all over it.
QFT. I have only played the demo, but that was enough for me. Very disappointed. This is exactly the kind of evolution (devolution, IMO) in cRPGs I don't want to see. Especially in indie cRPGs. This will be the first game by Mr Vogel in recent 10 years (or so) that I will not purchase, even if for supporting a cRPG indie. I will not support this.

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May 9th, 2011, 21:20
Originally Posted by Brother None View Post

I really am not a fan of this game's difficulty or combat structure.
What's the word? Sibylline? Perhaps you can elaborate?

Myself I'm not 100% satisfied with the fights. But I'm not 100% satisfied of the fights in the whole Avernum series, at least those I played. In Avadon I quoted some clear JRPG influence there wasn't in Avernum if I remember well. Ie boss or mid boss fights with tricks, and a large part of the fight is to find the trick or tricks and then the fight becomes quite more easy.

I prefer much more a more global tactical approach, but have a mix is quite cool, I'd say for boss fights the JRPG approach is used a bit too often for my taste. And from that point of view my first playthrough (I'm probably not far from the end) didn't made me discover that much tactical points. I'll be laugh for that, but I found quite more in DA2.

For sure in a game like Avadon there's an element quite major which is the ability to block enemies. Also there's a fairly good range of effects, and using special abilities/spells is an important element, and managing the cooldowns is a point too, and more. But overall, good tactical value, much better than all RPG without a party, but not that impressive. Possibly the party of three didn't help.

But to be clear about it, fights and tactics are just an element, and for me Avadon have some quite great parts, and a quite nice design diversity, Avernum series is quite pale in comparison for this point of view of diversity.

EDIT: Here an example which is for me a lack of tactical diversity, there's lacking stances like one defensive, and so on. There's lacking more blocking diversity like there's in DAO. Or I noticed some enemies have a two square range but I haven't found a single weapon that offer this, too bad for the tactical possibilities.

EDIT2: Here more missing possibilities for increasing tactical choices, I didn't noticed any beam effect. I didn't noticed any jump above possibilities, there's teleport that' it. I didn't notice any barrier/wall effects. And quite more, only looking at the deepest Roguelike would show the plenty of missing possibilities from a tactical point of view. Here a last one, bouncing effects.
Last edited by Dasale; May 9th, 2011 at 21:32.
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May 9th, 2011, 22:46
Originally Posted by Von Paulus
ftp://www.spiderwebsoftware.com/win/AvadonDX.zip
The DX version looks a loooooot better! Why would he put the crappy openGL version as the main download ??! that is a mystery to me.
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