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Default Major Explosion in Oslo - Pm's office destroyed

July 26th, 2011, 14:44
Originally Posted by Tragos View Post
It was a comment by a reader , i didn't know that reader's comments remove value from the article.
They don't, but it would have been helpful if you had mentioned the comment was from a reader when you quoted it.
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July 26th, 2011, 15:08
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Myrthos, feel free to jump off that high horse whenever you like. Certain profiles are scrutinized at airports, etc., for valid reasons.
As I pointed out in my reaction to DArtagnan (link) the reactions to what happened in Norway would be very different depending on the religious background of the person committing the act. That is what in my opinion the quote is about. If it was a Muslim all of Islam would be condemned, if it is a Christian he is just a madman.

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July 26th, 2011, 15:17
I apologize if I misunderstood. It seemed like you were agreeing with the comment that Tragos posted that implied no certain group should be profiled more than another at airports.

Of course some people do believe that, but I don't. It's all about percentages, and I think the profiling is justified, even if it's flawed.
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July 26th, 2011, 15:27
I don't like the profiling of certain groups or the country you travel from, but I don't see how else you can preserve some level of security. It is not possible to always do a 100% check, so they have to make educated guesses based on statistics.

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July 26th, 2011, 15:37
So far nordic christians have done far less terrorism than middle-east muslims. But if we some day started dropping planes on buildings in bryssels I would understand that we might get profiled in airports. So far that hasnt happened though so I dont see the need to tighten airport security.

Also unlike in middle-east there is no bigger armed extremist movement behind the nordic bombings. They really are just acts done by sole madmen.

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July 26th, 2011, 15:56
http://sultanknish.blogspot.com/2011…s-breivik.html

Breivik played role playing video games obsessively. One of his favorites was Dragon Age, one of whose characters is a Templar Knight who hacks his way to power.
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July 26th, 2011, 17:48
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
So far nordic christians have done far less terrorism than middle-east muslims. But if we some day started dropping planes on buildings in bryssels I would understand that we might get profiled in airports. So far that hasnt happened though so I dont see the need to tighten airport security.
/de-lurk

In case you're interested, here's the Europol statistics about attempted or successful terrorist attacks in Europe in 2010.

The most relevant statistic is probably this one:

Islamist: 3
Separatist: 160
Left-wing: 45
Right-wing: 0
Single-issue: 1
Not specified: 40
Total: 249

IOW, the typical terrorist is not Middle Eastern or Muslim. He's either from a separatist minority (e.g. Basque, Corsican, Irish), or of random ethnicity (left-wing, right-wing, single-issue, unspecified).

/re-lurk
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July 26th, 2011, 18:15
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
/de-lurk

In case you're interested, here's the Europol statistics about attempted or successful terrorist attacks in Europe in 2010.

The most relevant statistic is probably this one:

Islamist: 3
Separatist: 160
Left-wing: 45
Right-wing: 0
Single-issue: 1
Not specified: 40
Total: 249

IOW, the typical terrorist is not Middle Eastern or Muslim. He's either from a separatist minority (e.g. Basque, Corsican, Irish), or of random ethnicity (left-wing, right-wing, single-issue, unspecified).

/re-lurk
I didnt talk about europe but nordic countries (no separatists here). Also do you have stats for middle-east?

As for main ethnicity of nordic terrorists I have never claimed that they are islamists. The only thing Ive said is that we have few terrorists which all seem to be mainly sole countrymen gone mad.

However I do understand if i.e americans might profile middle-easterners.

But still its an interesting statistic you provided.

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Last edited by zakhal; July 27th, 2011 at 01:07.
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July 26th, 2011, 18:20
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
The most relevant statistic is probably this one:
Left-wing: 45
Right-wing: 0
I always knew you lefties were nuckin' futz.

One aspect of this that interests me is how the Enlightened Euro opinions on crime and punishment are going to hold up. There was an article that popped up very briefly on the AP about Norway's judicial already having to defend the 21 year thing. That article has since disappeared and I was unable to find it again. Closest I got was this:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/envoy/no…192223814.html
But the question remains: How will the Scandinavian nation's traditionally lenient legal system deal with what it has never faced before—a homegrown terrorist who proudly owns up to committing the worst acts of violence Norway has suffered since World War II?
There's always been that snooty condescending attitude about America's "uncivilized" approach to punishing criminals, and I'm very interested to see how it plays out now that the blood is on Euro soil. Euro user comments on various articles I've read have been downright vengeful (not that I have a problem with that). It will be very interesting to see how the "enlightened" theories hold up when they get bumped against a gruesome reality.

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July 26th, 2011, 19:34
This guy's just laughing, he doesnt give a fuck. Seriously, what's the worst that's going to happen to him? He sits in a cell for the rest of his days doing pushups, writing his book, and being a folk hero for this movement. I'm all for public execution of criminals when it comes to individuals such as this, bring out the guy w/ the black hood and 2-handed axe. He wants to be medieval? How about some medieval justice.
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July 26th, 2011, 19:42
An execution would make him right. We aren't that society.

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Okay, now roll sanity.

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July 26th, 2011, 19:47
Sure.

Better make sure he gets his pre-ordered Dragon Age III, we wouldnt want him to get bored!
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July 26th, 2011, 20:18
I'm fine with the 21 year limit. I don't see the need for longer prison sentences. The crime rate in Norway is low, also when it comes to murder.

We already have the possibility of keeping dangerous criminals locked of for as long as necessary through the extendable custody/storage system.

So, yeah. I don't see the need for harsher punishments, and I think this view will still be shared by the majority here.

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July 26th, 2011, 20:36
Murdering defenseless teenagers will get him on the lowest level in the prison hierarchy. The other prisoners will make the rest of his life hell on earth.

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July 26th, 2011, 21:13
Ah, but Euro prisons are rehabilitating country clubs according to y'all. How could there be prison violence like that in the middle of all that enlightenment?

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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July 26th, 2011, 21:34
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Ah, but Euro prisons are rehabilitating country clubs according to y'all. How could there be prison violence like that in the middle of all that enlightenment?
We have less crime and softer punishments than Texas. I think you should ponder this for a moment.

Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind. - John F Kennedy
An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind. - Mahatma Gandhi
The world is my country. To do good is my religion. My mind is my own church. This simple creed is all we need to enjoy peace on earth. - Thomas Paine
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Okay, now roll sanity.

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July 26th, 2011, 21:58
Would that be a fishy of a certainly apple-ish color?

Even if we address your logical fallacy on its own merits, you're assuming causation. That's an unsupported assumption. Poor form, perfesser! Fill in the fancy latin, if you would be so kind. Something like, "Whoopsium gottus caughtum", perhaps?

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July 26th, 2011, 22:09
EDIT: Text removed, I regret posting what I did.
Last edited by pibbur; July 26th, 2011 at 22:22.

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July 26th, 2011, 22:33
My agenda with the tangent is not to antagonize (although I'll admit that flattening JemyM's tires is probably an inappropriate tangent to the tangent). In previous discussions, the Euro approach has been held up as morally and intellectually superior. In reading numerous articles about this tragedy like all of us have, I've noticed more than a few people, self-identifying as European, putting up "hang him high" comments. My theory is that, now that "enlightened punishment" is truly being tested by real world ugliness, that false moral high ground is being abandoned at breakneck speed.

While such discussion is certainly relevant to the topic (see the global debate already underway), I have no problem with Corwin snipping it to a different thread if you or others find it inappropriate here. The thread had already wandered a fair bit from strictly news and sympathy before I started my tangent, but I've got no problem with pushing this thread back to the original intent if folks prefer. I have no desire to cheapen the tragedy.

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July 26th, 2011, 22:41
As you can see, I deleted what I wrote. I found it unfair to target you specifically.

Shake hands?

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