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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Gamasutra - Can A Good Game Be A Bad Sequel?

Default Gamasutra - Can A Good Game Be A Bad Sequel?

September 22nd, 2011, 06:10
Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative View Post
Playing the game itself in a demo does not make it clear how it plays? Watching an hour+ video on a site like giantbomb does not make it clear how it plays? Of COURSE those things do, that's not an opinion it is a fact. If one chooses to ignore that stuff and buy the game purely because of the words on the box, that's on them.



I think they did that, they just didn't make a sequel exactly like the original. That's not misdirection, that's just change. I'm thrilled Morrowind was not exactly like Arena and I hope Skyrim is not exactly like Oblivion. The titles are just words on boxes, gameplay is what matters. I don't care at ALL if Syndicate is not an isometric tactical shooter, what I care about is that it is a good GAME. If someone buys it just because of the name on the box they are, frankly, an idiot. I feel no regret for their loss.
Wasn't there a thread around here about last words?

I think you need to re-learn the difference between fact and opinion. Everyone else doesn't interpret information the way you do so yes, someone could play the demo or watch a video and still not quite know what they were getting into or to what degree.

Also, as has been noted several times some people pre-ordered before the demo and most of the videos.

Stating that you think people are an idiot because they buy something with a name on the box is an opinion (and yeah names are important otherwise companies like EA wouldn't scramble so much to keep cranking out games with the same names).

Okay your turn for last word now.
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September 22nd, 2011, 08:21
Originally Posted by Motoki View Post
someone could play the demo or watch a video and still not quite know what they were getting into or to what degree.
I grant you that it's not the same as playing the entire game, but I don't know how you could argue that playing an hour long demo or watching an unedited hour long video of gameplay is not VERY informative. It certainly would have told anyone that DA2 was faster paced, less tactical and had a new art style, for example.

Also, as has been noted several times some people pre-ordered before the demo and most of the videos.
I know that. And those people took a risk that it would not be a good game, or would be a very different game. There is no contract in place that says a sequel needs to play exactly like its predecessor, and certainly a reboot doesn't have to. This is the thing I don't agree with, buying because of the name on the box. That's just dumb, I'm sorry. I haven't seen you come back with a real argument that says why that is not a dumb thing to do.

And yes, EA use old names for brand awareness. That's not the same as promising you identical gameplay, and even if it was you still are the final decider who chooses to purchase a game. How much research you do before that purchase directly impacts your satisfaction level.

Okay your turn for last word now.
If you don't enjoy the debate stop participating in it.
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September 22nd, 2011, 08:47
Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative View Post
Playing the game itself in a demo does not make it clear how it plays? Watching an hour+ video on a site like giantbomb does not make it clear how it plays? Of COURSE those things do, that's not an opinion it is a fact. If one chooses to ignore that stuff and buy the game purely because of the words on the box, that's on them.



I think they did that, they just didn't make a sequel exactly like the original. That's not misdirection, that's just change. I'm thrilled Morrowind was not exactly like Arena and I hope Skyrim is not exactly like Oblivion. The titles are just words on boxes, gameplay is what matters. I don't care at ALL if Syndicate is not an isometric tactical shooter, what I care about is that it is a good GAME. If someone buys it just because of the name on the box they are, frankly, an idiot. I feel no regret for their loss.
idiots huh, arrogant much?

I think your forgetting this is a video game. I just bought a new truck and spent 3 months online researching and test driving until I found the one I wanted.

This is a video game and a sequel no less from a company saying stuff like they listened to there fans and made changes based on their feedback or that despite changes to make it more accessible they would stay true to their core fans. sounds good but both lies imo. I never heard them once say that other than being party based and in the da universe this will be a totally different game.

Also being a sequel many people will intentionally try to hear as little as possible to avoid spoilers because most sequels continue the story. You know like mass effect from the same developer. Bioware knows this, they aren't dumb and the capitalized on it.

How is one supposed to find out all about the game and still avoid spoilers? it's virtually impossible with spoiler laden previews. You can barely read headlines anymore iv'e seen some listing the character's that are returning for me3 from me2. I don't want to know this stuff. As I said bioware knows this and pulled a fast one. And the worst part is they pulled a fast one on their most loyal fans that pre-ordered very early.

So shame on bioware not shame on us idiots.
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September 22nd, 2011, 10:56
Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative View Post
If you don't enjoy the debate stop participating in it.
I don't see it as a debate, I see it as you being arrogant, rude, stubborn, disrespectful and insulting not to mention completely unwilling and/or unable to concede that others may perhaps see things different than you.

In particular, your use of calling people idiots is uncalled for. Perhaps hanging out at the Codex has rubbed off on you but this isn't the Codex. There are other ways to get that point across without being blatantly offensive and inflammatory. You could say that people were overly optimistic or even naive and it would convey the same message without the rudeness.

Or perhaps social skills really aren't your thing.
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September 22nd, 2011, 21:12
Buying a game without looking into it much at all is a dumb thing to do. That's not an arrogant statement no matter how much you guys want it to be, it's a fact.
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September 22nd, 2011, 21:28
I was going to write this polite reply explaining how saying something is a 'dumb thing to do' is a value judgement and different that saying someone is statistically and demonstrably 'dumb' (ie scored low on an IQ test) and that both in fact are rude ways of putting it, but you know what?

I give up. You're right. We're idiots. You're a genius who had it all figured out. EA is a kind and considerate company that would never intentional deceive anyone for financial gain.

You win at teh internetz. kthanxbai
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September 22nd, 2011, 23:31
Originally Posted by Motoki View Post
I was going to write this polite reply explaining how saying something is a 'dumb thing to do' is a value judgement and different that saying someone is statistically and demonstrably 'dumb' (ie scored low on an IQ test) and that both in fact are rude ways of putting it, but you know what?

I give up. You're right. We're idiots. You're a genius who had it all figured out. EA is a kind and considerate company that would never intentional deceive anyone for financial gain.

You win at teh internetz. kthanxbai
Don't worry about it, I think he's just projecting…

Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative View Post

That said a lot of the most disappointing sequels of all time, such as Dragon Age 2 or Invisible War, are flawed games in their own right. Even if DA2 was called something else the repeated content, MMO style sidequests and lack of any real choices would still be annoying and obvious. Even if Invisible War was called something else the small areas, technical issues and unbalanced upgrades would still be frustrating.
Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative View Post
Yes, they try to fool you with marketing and they use sequels to get automatic sales from loyal fans. None of that absolves you of any responsibility to check out the product before you buy though, sorry. It's still on you in the end.

And the changes to DA2 were extremely obvious well before launch to anyone who looked into it.
Well, that's a quite a different tune… When not to long ago you had this to say,

Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative View Post
The simple fact of the matter is that they released a demo of the game, I played it, and I liked it. You act like that is some failing on my part, that I am missing the obvious FACT that it's a bad game, and that is what makes you a smug bastard.
Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative View Post
The quality of the demo and game is an opinion, not a "truth" decided on by you.
Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative View Post
I like both games.

Of course I don't get the whole "OMG Dragon Age 2 is so dumbed down" thing. I consider it streamlined but still very tactical and it fixes a lot of Dragon Age's chunkiness.
Originally Posted by DoctorNarrative View Post
Same here.

Variety is good if you ask me. DA2 will feel like a badass and fun tactical RPG and then hopefully later in the year I will play Dead State, which will be more thoughtful and slow. Both should be great!
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September 23rd, 2011, 01:12
Thanks masterkromm that tells me all I need to know about doctornarrative. What a joke.
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September 23rd, 2011, 08:25
How does that have anything to do with my point? I liked the game, yes, even though it was worse than the original. Whether you like the demo or the game is an opinion, certainly. What does that have to do with buying games based on nothing but the name on the box?
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