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Default The Wall Street Occupation

October 5th, 2011, 15:56
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Not on capital bn but on excessive profits. Remember "privatizing profits and nationalizing losses" bit?
Ohh, I definitely remember that and am 100% against it. There has been a lot of talk of wealth taxes and such though as well.

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October 5th, 2011, 15:59
Originally Posted by peko View Post
Regarding that photo I found this blogpost suggesting it's fake. Have a look and judge for yourselves.

http://blog.timparkinson.net/2011/09…and-photoshop/
Good find.



Yet another reason no one is going to take these idiots seriously.

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October 5th, 2011, 16:03
Originally Posted by peko View Post
Regarding that photo I found this blogpost suggesting it's fake. Have a look and judge for yourselves.

http://blog.timparkinson.net/2011/09…and-photoshop/
Its a fake.

Looks like Jason’s truthiness is suspect on most things he states. The image was created by Scott Lickstein and folks can purchase a signed print for fifty bucks from his site:

http://scottlickstein.com/news/occupywallstreet-2.html

Who knows what Wettstein’s motivations are. Maybe he’s attempting to make #OWS supporters look like jerks.
If Jason's motivation was to make the protesters look like idiots (as bninja plainly puts out in previous post) he succeeded.

@ Jason…you have done a grave misjustice to the cause. How is anybody supposed to take us seriously when you post deceptive images ? This is not child’s play and people are being beaten and maced, yet you are at home safe playing with Photoshop. I use Photoshop as well and am damn good at it, but I would never stoop to deception. Shame on you from someone who would be there protesting if I did not live in the deep South.

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October 5th, 2011, 16:13
Fake for sure but, as it was pointed out in comments on the blog, since the movement (blogger calls them "group") haven't created the image you can't accuse them of "blatantly lie to defend their beliefs".
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October 5th, 2011, 16:28
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Fake for sure but, as it was pointed out in comments on the blog, since the movement (blogger calls them "group") haven't created the image you can't accuse them of "blatantly lie to defend their beliefs".
Given that the group has little in the way of leadership, you can't really say they are clear of it either. Easily someone at the protest could have asked this guy to mock it up for him/her. Which gets back to the fundamental problem that they have no leadership and no concrete demands.

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October 5th, 2011, 16:34
Originally Posted by blatantninja View Post
Which gets back to the fundamental problem that they have no leadership and no concrete demands.
Isn't that how most of the "grass roots" movements start?
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October 5th, 2011, 17:00
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Isn't that how most of the "grass roots" movements start?
I'm sure some do, but usually, at least from the ones I have seen, it centers around one specific demand. In Egypt, for example, their specific demand was the ouster of President Mubarak and new elections. Yes, there were lots of other interests as well, but that was really the concrete objective they were rallying around, and it didn't take months to come up with.

So far the only thing I've gotten from the OccupyWallStreeters is Wall Street Is Evil. And people like to dress up like zombies.

Ok, now what?

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October 5th, 2011, 17:40
Originally Posted by blatantninja View Post
In Egypt, for example, their specific demand was the ouster of President Mubarak and new elections. Yes, there were lots of other interests as well, but that was really the concrete objective they were rallying around, and it didn't take months to come up with.
That's so called "Big Goal" bn created by the outside sources and for outside consumption. Let me explain:
When opposition movement (simplified to "Solidarity Movement") started in Poland in 1980s the "big goal" was creation of independent Trade Unions. While, to the outsiders, it sounded like a concrete objective it wasn't really. Some would have been happy with independent trade unions within existing government structure while others knew that those two are incompatible and creation of independent trade unions will lead to the fall of the regime. For others independent trade unions and fall of the regime were just steps on the road to turn Poland into monarchy theocracy or to return to the XVIIth century borders "from Baltic to Black Sea". Some of those goals were truly ridiculous but they they were voiced non the less and by surprising number of people.

So, for now, BIG GOAL of OccupyWallStreeters is Wall Street Is Evil. Not terribly sensible but hey, give it time!
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October 5th, 2011, 17:57
I think my real issue is that they're making fools out of themselves rather than affecting any real change. I'm all for Wall Street reform. Heck, my job is too keep the evil bankers in line! But dressing up as zombies or pushing some ultra-feminist agenda isn't going to make it happen, its just going to make people dismiss it.

But maybe I missed the zombie costumes in Poland and Egypt!

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October 5th, 2011, 18:38
I think this sums up how I feel about a lot of these people at the protest:

(doing as a link because it is really big and requires you to zoom in to read it)
http://i.imgur.com/qxqBu.jpg

My total education cost about a total of $120k. My parents paid for around $30k of that (which yes I'm very fortunate for and grateful to them). So I was out of pocket about $90k. About $70k of the total was grad school. Of my $90k, I financed $80k of it with loans. I only spent the $70k on grad school because I felt I could make it pay off in the long run. I don't like that Sallie Mae essentially has a lien on my for another 20 years. I grumble every time I see the debit for the monthly payment.

But I'm not crying about spending the $90k or making my payments on the debt. That was the price to get the job I wanted, and I did the math and determined that going to grad school would pay off. If it doesn't pay off DON'T DO IT! It really grinds me whenever people think they are entitled to something that the rest of us have to work for.

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October 5th, 2011, 19:14
Somehow, the 99% has quite the multitude of losers with a sense of entitlement. Strange, that.

You know, I'm quite confident that I'm nowhere close to the magical 1%, so maybe I should stop worrying and just wait for somebody to take care of me. Where's my damn handout? My kids deserve cell phones. Do it for the children, you heartless bastards!

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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October 5th, 2011, 19:25
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Do you remember the 60's? I do!! (On a good day that is)
Barely. But who could forget Laugh-In?
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October 5th, 2011, 19:32
Originally Posted by blatantninja View Post
Doubt it. We have a lot farther to go before that kind of social unrest occurs. The sad fact is that Americans are lazy and while we all like to complain about politics, bank bailouts, and the rich not paying taxes, most people still have reasonably comfortable lives. Until that changes, there won't be more than just fringe movements.
Really? You do know that people were not financially dragged down during the 60's do you? The cause is different but the anger is nearly the same. If you can't see it in the politics today, you have to be blind.
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October 5th, 2011, 19:45
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Really? You do know that people were not financially dragged down during the 60's do you? The cause is different but the anger is nearly the same. If you can't see it in the politics today, you have to be blind.
I don't disagree with you there, but I think in general Americans are just far more complacent now than we were then (and for disclaimer, I was born in '75, so I may be clueless).

If Americans were as fed up with what is going on as the vocal minority would like us to believe, why do Bank of America, Chase or Wells Fargo still hold the vast majority of domestic deposits? Every single American can easily move their checking and savings accounts to a regional or local bank (I moved all my stuff to USAA last year). It would put these guys out of business over night and bankrupt most of their execs (and put a bunch of people out of work too but I doubt that would matter to the mob). People hate banks. They hate the bailouts. They hate the Fed.

They could cripple them and it wouldn't take almost any effort to make it happen. Yet they don't.


Until I see people out in the streets burning their debit/atm cards, I'm not going to believe we have anywhere near the level of social angst that existed in the 60's.

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October 5th, 2011, 19:48
We're not there yet. Give it some time. There WAS hope of a recovery, now the real despair is start to set in…
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October 5th, 2011, 20:02
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Really? You do know that people were not financially dragged down during the 60's do you? The cause is different but the anger is nearly the same. If you can't see it in the politics today, you have to be blind.
To some extent, I actually agree with you. Thing is, I think you guys are missing the mark with your venom. These OWS jokers are actually closer to the right target, but (like bn says) they lack focus on what's actually important to them. In order to gain warm bodies, they're having to add in misplaced priorities like the neo-feminist nonsense. Funny enough, it's the same growing pains that hit the Tea Party—started off as fiscal conservatives, but had to start addressing all sorts of unrelated issues as various extreme rightie factions joined the parade.

You're spewing on the wealthy and the bankers. The thing is, those are just people that have played the game well. Attacking them comes off as nothing more than sour grapes. Your real gripe should be with the system itself. You want to change the rules of the game and the "victory conditions". That requires a good bit of hard work and a focused vision. OWS might cover the first half, but they're deeply lacking on the second.

I think you'll have a hard time selling the systemic changes you want. Basically, your opening line is, "The American Dream is dead." That's the only way to justify there's a need to overhaul what's essentially a culture. It's entirely possible that you're right, but that's a deeply ingrained philosophy you're pissing on.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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October 5th, 2011, 20:05
Originally Posted by blatantninja View Post
But I'm not crying about spending the $90k or making my payments on the debt. That was the price to get the job I wanted, and I did the math and determined that going to grad school would pay off. If it doesn't pay off DON'T DO IT! It really grinds me whenever people think they are entitled to something that the rest of us have to work for.
Western World is changing bn. There was a time when job was for life and there was a time when college education led (in majority of the cases) to worthwhile employment. But now more and more college graduates are forced to take jobs below their skill level and more of them have hard time finding any employment at all.
It's one thing to pay off your student's loans when your salary is reasonable and quite another to when you are underemployed or unemployed.

As for Wall Street "zombies"…. I thought it was part of an old American tradition? Original Tea Partyers dressed up as "Indians", modern Tea Partyers wearing War of Independence costumes, racists dressed as "Ghosts of Christmas Past" and Ivy League president dressed up in Stetson and cowboy boots. Zombies fit right in!
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October 5th, 2011, 20:06
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Thing is, I think you guys are missing the mark with your venom.
When you say "you guys" and "your venom" who are you referring to?
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October 5th, 2011, 20:10
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Funny enough, it's the same growing pains that hit the Tea Party—started off as fiscal conservatives, but had to start addressing all sorts of unrelated issues as various extreme rightie factions joined the parade.
I agree with you on that one dte. That's why I also say: it's early days
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October 5th, 2011, 20:27
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
We're not there yet. Give it some time. There WAS hope of a recovery, now the real despair is start to set in…
Silly Thrasher. There was never any hope! (See my comments going back to 2008)

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