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View Poll Results - DA2, as tactical and in the same vein as BG2?

DA2 is as tactical and in the same vein as BG2 3 9.68%
DA2 is as tactical but not in the same veing as BG2 5 16.13%
DA2 is not as tactical but is in the same vein as BG2 2 6.45%
DA2 is not as tactical nor is it in the same vein as BG2 21 67.74%
Voters: 31. You may not vote on this poll

Default DA2, as tactical and in the same vein as BG2?

October 20th, 2011, 18:55
As I said I did vote "less tactical but in the same vein" I think it is reasonable to distinguish that games have different strengths (even if BG in this case has many more of them)

Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
You can't compare the half-baked combat mechanics of DA (1 or 2) to that of the D&D ruleset. In this 'vein', high level spells in BG not only offer an awesome button but also strategy on the battlefield. And, likewise, they could be countered, and re-countered.
I love BG2 and would rate it many stars above DA2, but the ruleset was crap and is actually one of few points where the latter game wins hands down IMHO. Characters were defined by class, gear and level to a MUCH greater extent than in DA2.

2nd edition D&D was extremely dull in terms of character building. Fighters and rogues actually had much more variety in DA2 than in BG (DA1 OTOH was crap in terms of character customisation). I mostly use mages for support, but I'm not sure BG wins on that account either, impressive spell count notwithstanding. BG2 mage fights were more often than not rather dull "can opening" fests where at least I spent much time taking down protective spells before the actual kill.

The Infinity engine was far superior for tactical control though, and the relative lack of wave combat (it existed in a few places in the Icewind Dales and possibly BG as well) meant that tactical positioning actually carried a lot more weight in those games.

EDIT: Not that there are that many post-infinity tactical games where you control a party. I havent played all releases, but from the top of my head we essentially have the Drakensang games, NWN2, and the Dragon Age games. DA2 is easily the worst of those in terms of tactical gameplay, but it does have the element. I'd argue that they all to some extent are in the same vein as BG2.

Other games where you have a party tend to have even more gimped tactics (Kotor) or uncontrollable companions (NWN1) which reduced tactical options even more. When we enter that territory I'd say we arent in the same vein any longer
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October 20th, 2011, 20:28
I'm not going to say anyone is wrong, an opinion is an opinion and as was noted, 'in the same vein' is somewhat vague. Having said that, I absolutely do not consider DA2 in the same vein as BG2. DA2 is clearly a console game and everything about it was designed around that point, BG2 is clearly a computer game. They play and feel very differently.

Although I can see elements of the past Bioware games, I can also see elements of console JRPGs and action games in DA2. Both games are RPGs yes, so I would say they are in the same genre but not the same vein. To me, the former is a broad classification of the type of game and the latter is a more specific sub-categorization of the style and the feel of the way a game plays.

I've never played them so I can't say, but maybe Dark Alliance or Jade Empire would be better comparisons?
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October 21st, 2011, 11:41
Originally Posted by Motoki View Post
. DA2 is clearly a console game and everything about it was designed around that point, BG2 is clearly a computer game. They play and feel very differently.
Surely you kidding? I don't mean to pick a fight or anything but can you actually play DA2 in consoles (note I don't own any consoles and haven't played on them for the last 10 years but I have seen other people use and play on them). Is there console port of DA2?

From what I have seen on DA2 (I am on chap 3 now) I won't consider it console game at all. However I will consider DA2 very MMO inspired.
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October 21st, 2011, 11:57
Lol yes… DA2 was made for consoles and all the people that give it high grades on the internet play it on consoles.

The game even got a "graphical enhancement" for dx11 support after the game was launched in order to have better graphics on PC since the consoles could not support it.

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October 21st, 2011, 12:55
Haha, well you learn something new everyday. I can't imagine myself playing it on consoles! I guess may be consoles have evolved from 10 years to have better controllers!
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October 21st, 2011, 13:43
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
Haha, well you learn something new everyday. I can't imagine myself playing it on consoles! I guess may be consoles have evolved from 10 years to have better controllers!
The addition of 2 analogue sticks has done wonders for the consoles ability to handle 3d games. They still have too few buttons to be good for deep CRPGs or strategy games though (and adding more buttons would just make them messy), so that is why Dragon age 2 feels slimmed down. Dragon age 1 actually had a huge difference between its console version and its PC version, which made each game feel tailored to its system. DA2 on the other hand just used the same system for both.
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October 21st, 2011, 20:25
I'm still playing the game on Nightmare difficulty, and the game is indeed tactical. In Nightmare one area spell or assassins' sneak attack move can be your characters' doom. It's the most advance friendly fire system also. Not your area spells effect your characters, but also warriors' special attacks like rush. Actually in some tough boss fights, I have to pause every five seconds and give my characters different orders and continue. Yes, combat is faster, but I've used to it after a while. Actually short casting time of spells and special moves make the game more dynamic, you can think your characters' next moves without distracting and waiting much. And yes, this adds some action to the gameplay. You can dynamicly use hit and run moves with your warrior characters. Lack of isometric camera and the limited zoom out can be a nuisance sometimes when casting area spells. But other than that I don't miss the tactical camera much. Also I don't know it's in the case with other difficulty levels, but in Nightmare you can't consume 2 healing potions in a row like Diablo style games. It has a cool down thing like in the spells and special moves. Which adds a new challenge while arranging tactics.

My main complain about combat is some of the tougher opponents are tough because of their HPs, not their special moves or tougher AI. For example, there's a tough boss fight at the end of Act 1, and it's tough because of it's huge HP (I had to lower the difficulty from Nightmare to Hard in order to kill it). Parachuting enemies also can be your nightmare at times, especially in narrow areas. It's nasty to suddenly have two assassin's behind my mage. I generally run all the way to the beginning of the map at the start of the fight to avoid this, but in some areas (especially in boss battles) when the room is blocked by magical barriers or such it's a real pain. Bioware learned it's mistake and parachuting enemies are gone from the DLCs, which is a relief for future DA RPGs.

I think who says DA2 is not tactical, either playing the game in easy and normal difficulty or on console, or being unfair about the game. At tactical aspect it's different than BG2, but not inferior. But at other aspects it's behind BG2 of course. I'm still playing and enjoying DA2 because of three things, one for the DA lore, two for the tactical combats, and three for the story and the characters of it. What Bioware always achieve in their games are the believable characters and brilliant story telling I think. At other aspects it's far behind a classic like BG2. I resemble recent Bioware RPGs to Japanese console RPGs that the random turn based combat changed with randomless real time combat.

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October 21st, 2011, 20:44
I respect anyone's opinion when it comes to games.

But for me the above poll is like asking me "the moon or the sun produce more heat?"
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October 22nd, 2011, 21:30
I played DA2 in Nightmare at release. The game wasn't very tactical or I'd agree it was tactics-lite. The game was just very tedious. You had to micromanage your party so an ability wasn't wasted and because the AI sucked. This meant pausing every 5 seconds to issue commands and spending 10 to 15 minutes on trash fights. At least those that involved waves.

It was literally like playing a crappy MMO while controlling 4 characters instead of 1. The game just had so many problems and bad design choices.
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October 22nd, 2011, 21:34
I played the whole first chapter on nightmare, the whole second on normal, the whole third on hard.
Went with the last option.

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October 22nd, 2011, 22:22
Did BG2 really lack waves?

Cuz BG1 had waves. Fucking skeletons.


Originally Posted by bloodlover View Post
Lol yes… DA2 was made for consoles and all the people that give it high grades on the internet play it on consoles.

The game even got a "graphical enhancement" for dx11 support after the game was launched in order to have better graphics on PC since the consoles could not support it.
Yes, DA2 got a high resolution texture pack on PC. That could have been done on consoles, as proven by EA shipping BF3 with a high res texture disc.

Also: I played DA2 on the PC. I started it the day after I beat Witch Hunt and thought it was fantastic.
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October 22nd, 2011, 22:40
Originally Posted by darkling View Post
Did BG2 really lack waves?
The correct question is: "did 98% of BG2´s combat encounters have waves?"

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October 22nd, 2011, 23:06
Originally Posted by darkling View Post
Yes, DA2 got a high resolution texture pack on PC. That could have been done on consoles, as proven by EA shipping BF3 with a high res texture disc.
Battlefield is one of their biggest franchises so yeah they are going to go out of their way on that one.

Personally, I didn't think DA2 looked much better with the high res texture pack. Even with it, it's no Witcher 2.
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October 23rd, 2011, 00:21
Yeah, the textures didn't really add much. Kirkwall did have some nice design but DA2 is certainly not a glorious graphical feast.
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October 23rd, 2011, 00:32
There's more to PC gaming than shinier graphics. Better [custom] controls, interface, moddability, etc.. Unfortunately, graphics are what stand out first to reviewers who spend a total of 30 minutes with a game while knee-deep in swag.
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October 23rd, 2011, 01:00
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
There's more to PC gaming than shinier graphics. Better [custom] controls, interface, moddability, etc.. Unfortunately, graphics are what stand out first to reviewers who spend a total of 30 minutes with a game while knee-deep in swag.
Oh I know that. I mean I still play old games from the 90s or even earlier sometimes so I don't have to always have top notch graphics. Still, with all the resources at EA I do kind of expect more. Part of the reason that companies agree to be purchased by EA, or so they claim, is to make bigger budget games.

Also, with the DA2 pack I downloaded it and just kind of went 'Huh? It doesn't look that much different'. I'm sure there is a difference and probably if I saw side by side comparisons I would see it more, but just from playing it before and after the texture pack install I really wasn't wowed like I have been after installing his res texture packs on other games.
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October 23rd, 2011, 05:32
Being a d&d game alone makes BG more tactical than DA2.
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October 23rd, 2011, 12:44
Originally Posted by bussinrounds View Post
Being a d&d game alone makes BG more tactical than DA2.
hi5 for thread win? Anyone? C'mon, don't be shy xD

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October 26th, 2011, 07:31
Being a d&d game alone makes BG more tactical than DA2.
tongue-in-cheek

What a load of BS, DA2 has magical emo-elf fisting… Way more tactical and from a continuity perspective fits nicely within the game world they created.

/tongue-in-cheek
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