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December 21st, 2011, 21:50
Originally Posted by Harlequin View Post
You can't make a literal translation of the books. Won't work on film.

Stop comparing the books to the movies and you will enjoy the movies much better. As PJ said himself look at the movies as a interpretation of the books not a translation.
Nobody is talking about a literal translation of the books. I'm talking about things that are obviously being done because Jackson thinks that's what the mainsteam audience wants to see.
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December 21st, 2011, 22:03
I was dubious about the LotR movies but I think he did a great job. Compare with the first Harry Potter movie. It was less a movie than a series of disconnected scenes out of the book.

To make a good movie from a good book you CANNOT slavishly just film scenes out of the book, especially a long book.
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December 21st, 2011, 23:48
Funny, I think The Hobbit would be perfect if it was filmed almost exactly page by page. Sure, the long drawn out sessions (like in the Wood Elf prison) should be shortened - but then again, they're shortened in the book as well.

Jackson took WAY too many liberties with the material in LotR - and changed the core of characters (like Faramir).

I fear it will be even worse in The Hobbit, because of his previous success - and the material being lighter - which I'm sure he will take as an excuse to slapstick it up even more.
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December 21st, 2011, 23:51
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Nobody is talking about a literal translation of the books. I'm talking about things that are obviously being done because Jackson thinks that's what the mainsteam audience wants to see.
I have the same opinion.

For example these Uruk-hai Orcs made by Saruman … They looked too much like horror creatrures to me. Which they weren't in the books. Ugly, yes, fearsome, yes, but no horror.

The only "real" horror themes in LOTR are (imho)

- the wights (that small departure from the "safe road" after visiting Tom Bombadil
- Minas Morgul
- the unseen kings (yes, I know they are called "Witch Kings")
- the people Aragorn called at the Stome of Erech

Originally Posted by BillSeurer View Post
To make a good movie from a good book you CANNOT slavishly just film scenes out of the book, especially a long book.
Things must be shortened, of course.

But what bothers me, personally, is the distortion of things.

I think there have been quite good renderings of literature in the past - although I just can't remember any.

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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December 22nd, 2011, 00:10
Sorry but I belong to those "zealots" that grew up on Tolkien's books you've seen here and there over years. LoTR movies were so insulting that watching the first one I couldn't believe my eyes Jackson even dared to put the title Lord of the rings on that idiocy, watching the second one I cried like a baby how Jackson massacred the book and during the third movie I was laughing my arse off hysterically in the middle of theatre and still can't believe they didn't send a nuthouse employees to pick me up back then.

Now… You're saying Jackson is doing even bigger changes to Hobbit?
To tell you the truth, I'm not gonna watch that thing.
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December 22nd, 2011, 00:15
I don't think the trilogy was *that* bad. Although I still get incensed when I think about The Battle of the Pelennor Fields.
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December 22nd, 2011, 00:31
Sorry but I belong to those "zealots" that grew up on Tolkien's books you've seen here and there over years. LoTR movies were so insulting that watching the first one I couldn't believe my eyes Jackson even dared to put the title Lord of the rings on that idiocy, watching the second one I cried like a baby how Jackson massacred the book and during the third movie I was laughing my arse off hysterically in the middle of theatre and still can't believe they didn't send a nuthouse employees to pick me up back then.
They should have.
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December 22nd, 2011, 00:32
I expect to be well entertained by this.
The first half of The Hobbit, similarly as FotR, is at its core a road adventure, which I think can be, structurally and pacing-wise, translated into film format relatively without much creative interventions/adjustments which were the main reason why I found the latter two parts of the LotR film trilogy less enjoyable.
Most of the film trilogy´s visual aspects surpassed my expectations, hopefully The Hobbit will be just as good.
Most of the second part will probably be all epic battles and shit, I won´t be impressed and it´ll just confirm my sentiment that Terry Gilliam would be much better fit for the material .

So far, so good, though.
The dwarf tune is great.
Last edited by DeepO; December 22nd, 2011 at 00:45.
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December 22nd, 2011, 00:48
Originally Posted by DeepO View Post
Most of the second part will probably be all epic battles and shit, I won´t be impressed and it´ll just confirm my sentiment that Terry Gilliam would be much better fit for the material .
I'm actually really looking forward to seeing The Battle of Five Armies. It was one of my favorite parts in the book, and I think it could be a spectacular scene if done right. In other words, if Jackson can resist adding his own "flair".

I assume you were joking about Terry Gilliam.
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December 22nd, 2011, 01:03
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I assume you were joking about Terry Gilliam.
No, I wasn´t .
Gilliam would likely stuck to the book´s fairytale-ish nature, while I´ll be surprised if Jackson won´t turn it into an epic saga.
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December 22nd, 2011, 02:06
Some of the dwarves looked patently ridiculous, a thing I hated about Jackson's slapstick treatment of Pippin and Merry early in FoTR. Also, and this is clearly nitpicking, the Rankin Bass treatment of Far over misty mountains cold is, IMO, just plain superior to the funeral dirge in the trailer. Why would you moan out "the trees like torches blazed with light" like that? they "BLAAAAZED with light!" as Gandalf bellows in the haunting Rankin Bass rendition. I think Jackson is just trying too hard to distance himself from former efforts.

But anyway a must see… can't wait.

"For Innos!"
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December 22nd, 2011, 02:15
Jackson needs to flesh out the source material as the Hobbit is such a short book. I'm still not convinced it will make two decent movies.

I thought the LOTR movies were a pretty good rendition of the books, where the changes were mostly justified. For example even though I enjoyed the Old Forest & Barrow Downs excursion in the book, it would have been hard to recreate in a movie (especially Tom Bombadil, who is a bit of a crap character frankly). I was less keen on the constant attempts to shoehorn Arwen into the plot because "we need more elf-tits", and having Elves march to Helm's Deep from Lorien in a matter of days was pretty inexplicable. Still, I thought the movies were about as good a treatment as the material will ever get on the big screen.
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December 22nd, 2011, 02:38
Well I am guardedly optimistic. I think Jackson did a commendable job on a monumentally difficult shoot (loved the Moria and Balrog scenes), but I am not saying it wasn't without disappointments (the Old forest, the Barrow Wight, Lorien, and the Arden romance being the worst offenders).

It does seem like his Hobbit dwarves are a bit silly, and are not at all how imagine them. Though, adding in the part about the White Council is fine by me. Especially if he includes a meaty assault on Dol Guldur.

And I agree with JDR, I am most looking forward to how they treat the Battle of the Five Armies, but also Mirkwood.
Last edited by Thrasher; December 22nd, 2011 at 03:47.
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December 22nd, 2011, 03:38
The dialog with Smaug has to be perfect.

"For Innos!"
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December 22nd, 2011, 03:49
Yep, Smaug should be right, too. It shouldn't be easy to fuck up, but I am wary after seeing the dwarf treatment.
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December 22nd, 2011, 10:44
Terry Gilliam?

Heck, I'd prefer Del Toro over that nutbag.

Nah, they need to get Ridley Scott for the visuals - and Aronofsky for the rest of the material.
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December 22nd, 2011, 11:31
Originally Posted by coaster View Post
Jackson needs to flesh out the source material as the Hobbit is such a short book. I'm still not convinced it will make two decent movies.

I thought the LOTR movies were a pretty good rendition of the books, where the changes were mostly justified. For example even though I enjoyed the Old Forest & Barrow Downs excursion in the book, it would have been hard to recreate in a movie (especially Tom Bombadil, who is a bit of a crap character frankly). I was less keen on the constant attempts to shoehorn Arwen into the plot because "we need more elf-tits", and having Elves march to Helm's Deep from Lorien in a matter of days was pretty inexplicable. Still, I thought the movies were about as good a treatment as the material will ever get on the big screen.
What he said.

I am looking forward to these movies. I am much lest invested in The Hobbit as I was for LotR, so I will be even less in nitpick mode than with those three movies. I am looking forward to return to Middle Earth.
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December 22nd, 2011, 11:43
I'm a nitpicker, no doubt, but many of my issues with the LotR movies are NOT nitpicks.

Jackson literally changed the most fundamental aspect of the Faramir character - which is especially unfortunate, as it was the character Tolkien most identified with - at least in terms of what he aspired to be.

Beyond that, he turned aspects of multiple characters into slapstick material for cheap laughs. Some of that was done with warmth and care, but too much of it was just silly and totally counterproductive to what he was trying to do otherwise.

I know Jackson is fond of not taking things seriously, but he was obviously confused making those movies - because that majority of them are dead serious - much like the material is meant to be (no, not in a stonefaced dreary way - but from the soul). If you're going to respect the work as much as they were trying to do, then it's doubly unfortunate when you go counter to that because you want a giggle from the audience.

But I agree that they represent almost a miracle when you consider the Hollywood system - but that doesn't mean they didn't have serious flaws that are worth discussing.
Last edited by DArtagnan; December 22nd, 2011 at 11:59.
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December 22nd, 2011, 12:21
I too was a bit hacked off by the changes PJ made in LoTR, although I do not regret the loss of Tom Bombadil (hey ho! I also found the slapstick element inappropriate and annoying. Nonethless, I managed to enjoy them and I'm pretty sure I'll enjoy the Hobbit too. I like the idea of exploring the goings on in Mirkwood with Gandalf and the White council - I always wondered about that, and I think its makes sense from a timeline perspective.
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December 22nd, 2011, 12:38
Slapstick Merry and Pippin in the movies are better than their personality-free novel counterparts.
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