|
Your continuous donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Rampant Games - the Hardcore Gamer's Manifesto

Default Rampant Games - the Hardcore Gamer's Manifesto

January 8th, 2012, 18:32
Jay Barnson from Rampant has added some points to the original manifesto created by Cliff Harris in his Bite Size Hardcore Manifesto on his blog. The first 8 points come from Cliff, the last 3 points (from 9-11) come from Jay Barnson.
1) No pandering to casual gaming stereotypes. No gratuitous kittens or ‘cute’ cuddly characters.
2) No time wasting. No splash screens, intros, or FMV. We have 30 minutes tonight for gaming. Ensure all 30 minutes have us interacting with the game.
3) No Grind. We have day jobs. leave the grind to the kids in the F2P MMOs where it belongs. Give me decent, varying content, without filler. And don’t reward grind either, with bonus achievements for time played, or 1,000 low level rats clubbed.
4) No nickel+diming. We have proper jobs and disposable income. If the game is good, we will buy outright. Don’t keep breakign immersion to try and sell us $0.05 worth of magic pixie dust.
5) No oversimplification. We can cope with 2 mouse buttons, maybe even 3, and a wheel. We can cope with right clicking, tech trees, customisable units and mods.
6) No mandatory training levels or tutorials that cover the obvious. This is my 245th first person shooter. I can guess that WSAD moves, the mouse looks, and the mouse shoots. At the very least, let me skip tutorial stuff I don’t need.
7) Don’t patronize us. We shouldn’t get an achievement for hitting the jump key, or told we are awesome soldiers for hitting a tin can. Leave that crap for kids in kindergarten.
8) Be original. We have gamed before. We have fought in many a crate-strewn corridoor, and killed many a rat and returned their hides to someone who is too lazy to do it themselves. We have heard many tales of lost kingdoms and evil wizards. Surprise us. Please.
9) No arbitrary save-game restrictions! With some acceptable exceptions (like in the middle of a combat sequence, for example), I expect to be able to save and exit the game at any time, and then come back and pick up more-or-less where I left off. If for some technical reason your game does have “checkpoints” rather than save-anywhere, EVERY SINGLE FRICKIN’ ONE OF THOSE CHECKPOINTS SHOULD BE A VALID SAVE LOCATION! None of this B.S. about having three or four checkpoints in-between valid save points. You obviously DO have the game state recorded from each check point in memory, so there’s no reason you can’t store it to the disk.
10) Make your PC game as playable as possible WITHOUT a game controller plugged in. It’s fine to port a game from the consoles and note that the game plays “best” with a controller. You optimized it for that input device, that’s fine. But make a friggin’ effort. Not all PC gamers want an XBox controller plugged into their system, but they DO want to play your game, especially as a “casual” diversion between sessions of “serious” work. Ridiculous control schemes that are obviously just brain-dead remappings of controller inputs poorly implemented on the keyboard are not acceptable. And no, players won’t appreciate your attempt to “force” them to use a game controller on their PC.
11) In addition to keeping the cut-scenes short, make them easy to pause, review, or at least check out the summary and critical exposition / explanations revealed in the scene. Because when the wife enters the room and needs to talk, she does like having to wait until the cut-scene is over.
Do you agree with Cliff and Jay?
More information.
aries100 is offline

aries100

SasqWatch
RPGWatch Team RPGWatch Donor

#1

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark, Europe
Posts: 1,934

Default 

January 8th, 2012, 18:32
Don't disagree with any particular point.
CrazyIrish is offline

CrazyIrish

Sentinel

#2

Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 571

Default 

January 8th, 2012, 19:04
Me neither; point 9 is absolutely mandatory imho.

I'm not a noob, I'm just differently skilled.
Ball_Breaker is offline

Ball_Breaker

Ball_Breaker's Avatar
Sentinel

#3

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Europe's Boot
Posts: 341

Default 

January 8th, 2012, 19:07
What game/s encompasses all or even most of these points?

I'd say (for me) that Morrowind hits all with the possible exception of #2…I recall quite a bit of time trying to figure out what to do or where to go, but maybe that was my own limitations

edit - yes, #9 is a must!
Roland is offline

Roland

Watchdog

#4

Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 173

Default 

January 8th, 2012, 20:35
THis is imho the very best piece of "player opinion" I have read for years.

Everything is nailed down, hit the spot of it all, and is formulasted so that it doesn't allow a single "yes, but…" from, the side of the developer or the publisher.

Personally, I'd add Number 12:

12) Keep the world's environment as logical (according to the world's rules or at least according to common sense) as possible and don't create situations with "parachuting enemies" [like in Dragon Age 2] where the gamer is left wondering where they all come from ? Or why we didn't kill the boss but only his/her 5th body incarnation ?

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
Alrik Fassbauer is offline

Alrik Fassbauer

Alrik Fassbauer's Avatar
TL;DR

#5

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Old Europe
Posts: 15,627

Default 

January 8th, 2012, 21:22
Nice one Alrik; no one hasn't thought of it yet .

I'm not a noob, I'm just differently skilled.
Ball_Breaker is offline

Ball_Breaker

Ball_Breaker's Avatar
Sentinel

#6

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Europe's Boot
Posts: 341

Default 

January 8th, 2012, 22:00
Most of those requests seem pretty reasonable sorts of things for a lot of gamers. When I saw the title I was expecting the sort of garbage you often hear from self-labled hardcore gamers; the things that remind me of this:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide…core-Hypocrisy

After reading the actual article and introduction to the followup in particular, it is obvious that these are not the gamers they are speaking to or wish to come across as speaking for. The addendum to the list makes it particularly clear that the author thinks the label is not particularly useful and that the dichotomy between casual and "hardcore" gamers is not only a false split but that this perception leads developers to make worse games.

All-in-all a decent list of requests which includes features I would like to see more of and bemoans developer habits I can't stand (like unskippable long cutscenes which make launching or replaying the game tedious). Probably not something many people who would actually call themselves "hardcore gamers" would agree with, but something I and many gamers I know would and that looks to be the author's intent.
jhwisner is offline

jhwisner

Keeper of the Watch

#7

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,477

Default 

January 8th, 2012, 23:19
This was a nice read. I approve of this message, and the sentiment. Easy games are bad, mmmkay!


-Carn
Carnifex is offline

Carnifex

Keeper of the Watch

#8

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, CA
Posts: 1,354

Default 

January 9th, 2012, 01:32
Originally Posted by jhwisner View Post
Most of those requests seem pretty reasonable sorts of things for a lot of gamers. When I saw the title I was expecting the sort of garbage you often hear from self-labled hardcore gamers; the things that remind me of this:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide…core-Hypocrisy
Jim Sterling is the biggest (in many ways) idiot on the internet, by the way.
Tuco is offline

Tuco

Tuco's Avatar
Watchdog

#9

Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 172

Default 

January 9th, 2012, 01:56
As for #11, I'd love to see cut scenes and QTE's done away with altogether. Find a way to tell the story through the gameplay.
CountChocula is offline

CountChocula

CountChocula's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#10

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chocovania
Posts: 1,478

Default 

January 9th, 2012, 02:57
13. Add an Option to skip all logo and intro videos on successive game start-ups. A gamer shouldn't have to edit an INI file or delete/rename a video file to speed up loading or avoid annoying pregame crap.
Zephyr is offline

Zephyr

SasqWatch

#11

Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 222

Default 

January 9th, 2012, 03:04
Originally Posted by Zephyr View Post
13. Add an Option to skip all logo and intro videos on successive game start-ups. A gamer shouldn't have to edit an INI file or delete/rename a video file to speed up loading or avoid annoying pregame crap.
You have to wonder at the kind of hubris that inspires publishers to make their logos unskippable.

OTOH, perhaps NVIDIA makes cash payments for games that force you to watch their animated logo.
CountChocula is offline

CountChocula

CountChocula's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#12

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chocovania
Posts: 1,478

Default 

January 9th, 2012, 03:40
Originally Posted by CountChocula View Post
You have to wonder at the kind of hubris that inspires publishers to make their logos unskippable.

OTOH, perhaps NVIDIA makes cash payments for games that force you to watch their animated logo.
It's a requirement for some engines / toolsets / publishers that their logos have to be unskippable for X seconds. It's part of the contract. No joke.
RampantCoyote is offline

RampantCoyote

RampantCoyote's Avatar
Sentinel

#13

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 562

Default 

January 9th, 2012, 03:43
Originally Posted by RampantCoyote View Post
It's a requirement for some engines / toolsets / publishers that their logos have to be unskippable for X seconds. It's part of the contract. No joke.
Ah ok then I guess you could use the number of individual brand logos on the game box as a good rule of thumb to guess how many splash screens you have to sit through before playing.
jhwisner is offline

jhwisner

Keeper of the Watch

#14

Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,477

Default 

January 9th, 2012, 07:03
I agree with most of this (especially #9) except for #1. Why can't you have a brutally difficult game with cute kittens and cuddly characters since it would make it all the more hardcore to have a cute kitten tearing you apart and stand above the bloody mess of your body licking it's fur clean.

PS. I think it is okay to have FMV's and in-game scenes but you should be able to skip them and have an outline of what went on in your journal. I do agree about QTE's though since they are the bane of gaming.
Last edited by guenthar; January 10th, 2012 at 00:27.
guenthar is offline

guenthar

SasqWatch

#15

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,532
Send a message via Skype™ to guenthar

Default 

January 9th, 2012, 08:43
It all seems good to me, especially 9. It's insane that this even has to be mentioned (repeatedly, every time a list like this is made!), and even more insane how many people defend awful save systems.

Maybe we should take those people, give them a randomly set period of time to play a game, then force them to immediately stop where there are when time's up. See how many of them change their tune once they have to play like the rest of us for a few days.
Menigal is offline

Menigal

Menigal's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#16

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 681

Default 

January 9th, 2012, 08:49
This is pure gold. I couldnt agree more. Especially with the "no grind". I quit wow because it felt like a job. If I work I want to get a pay atleast.

1) No pandering to casual gaming stereotypes. No gratuitous kittens or ‘cute’ cuddly characters.
2) No time wasting. No splash screens, intros, or FMV. We have 30 minutes tonight for gaming. Ensure all 30 minutes have us interacting with the game.
3) No Grind. We have day jobs. leave the grind to the kids in the F2P MMOs where it belongs. Give me decent, varying content, without filler. And don’t reward grind either, with bonus achievements for time played, or 1,000 low level rats clubbed.
8) Be original. We have gamed before. We have fought in many a crate-strewn corridoor, and killed many a rat and returned their hides to someone who is too lazy to do it themselves. We have heard many tales of lost kingdoms and evil wizards. Surprise us. Please.

"99.9% of all internet arguments are due to people not understanding someone else's point. The other 0.1% is arguing over made up statistics."-unknown poster
"Those who dont read history are destined to repeat it."– Edmund Burke
zakhal is offline

zakhal

zakhal's Avatar
HomelyRebel

#17

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Europa Universalis
Posts: 2,930

Default 

January 9th, 2012, 09:06
I think for the save game restrictions, it really depends on the game.

I enjoy games where I die and reload frequently, without any saving restrictions.

However, I must admit the checkpoint system worked very well in Hard Reset, as it was a sort of nod to the old school NES games in a way. Without the checkpoints, the game would have only lasted a couple of hours at most.
CountChocula is offline

CountChocula

CountChocula's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#18

Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chocovania
Posts: 1,478

Default 

January 9th, 2012, 09:40
Originally Posted by CountChocula View Post
Without the checkpoints, the game would have only lasted a couple of hours at most.
To me that's just bad game design/lazy padding. If I ever have to stop playing, either by dying, having to do something, or running into a game-stopping bug, and later replay a lengthy section of the game soley because of a ludicrous save system, then I usually stop playing the game. I know this, so if I if know a game has a system like this, I generally don't spend my money on it.

If someone thinks a game is "too easy" or "too short" if they can save whenever they feel like it, then they can restrict their saves however they want. My time's too valuable to me to play through the same 10 minutes of game again because I died or had to go help my wife with something, though.
Menigal is offline

Menigal

Menigal's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#19

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 681

Default 

January 9th, 2012, 09:43
Oh, I have about 200 more

But I agree with all of them, though I realise I'm not entitled to any of it.
DArtagnan is offline

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#20

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 13,048
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Rampant Games - the Hardcore Gamer's Manifesto
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 18:07.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch