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Default The Escapist - How Dragon Age 2 Fell Apart

January 21st, 2012, 11:04
Originally Posted by darkling View Post
but the game overall is one of my favourite RPGs ever. I have a feeling its greatness will be recognized a few years ahead.
I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're being sarcastic.
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January 21st, 2012, 14:02
I always say. DA 2 would be a good game if the title of the game isn't actually Dragon Age. And it did not came from BioWares team,but some Indie developers.
Of course if it would be more PC friendly(read not so console-ish).
And with all respect to DAO. DA2 is simply not worthy enough to be in the DA series but some different game. A hack and slash party based game with a different title.
Title like, "The Kirkwall Wanderers"
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January 21st, 2012, 15:06
DA2 happend because of SWTOR. Quite simply.
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January 21st, 2012, 18:30
This game's been out for almost a year, and he's just now figured out it sucked??

Waiting for his review of Star Wars…
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January 21st, 2012, 18:32
Originally Posted by hishadow View Post
DA2 happend because of SWTOR. Quite simply.
Considering that SWTOR is tanking (despite a massive attempt to suggest otherwise by EA et al), I'd say BioWare needs to go back to the drawing board. I just hope it's not too late for ME3.
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January 21st, 2012, 18:42
Originally Posted by ChaosTheory View Post
Considering that SWTOR is tanking (despite a massive attempt to suggest otherwise by EA et al)
I don't play (or plan to play) SWTOR but I am curious… What do you base your opinion on?
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January 21st, 2012, 18:46
Originally Posted by ChaosTheory View Post
Considering that SWTOR is tanking (despite a massive attempt to suggest otherwise by EA et al), I'd say BioWare needs to go back to the drawing board. I just hope it's not too late for ME3.
It's way too early for those predictions. It's been out some 4 weeks!

The reason I mentioned SWTOR was that part of the workforce for DA2 were reassigned to SWTOR. They probably couldn't afford a "standard development cycle" for DA2. If you read older posts from some Bioware employee here, they mentioned that the original Dragon Age was pretty much an underdog (delayed development etc), so Bioware had probably never planned a continuation of it, until they saw its potantial.
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January 21st, 2012, 19:09
I thought DA2 was originally an expansion like Awakening that got blown up into a sequel.
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January 21st, 2012, 19:34
Except Awakening was actually good and worth playing, DA2 not so much. The thing that scares me is, did Bioward learn anything from the fiasco??



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January 21st, 2012, 19:49
Originally Posted by darkling View Post
I have a feeling its greatness will be recognized a few years ahead.
I very much doubt that. If someone truly likes the story and the characters, fine. Remove these from the equation and the result is one horrible mess of a game, full of design decisions that could only be described as copouts. If only EA had spent some money on the actual game instead of hype. This game will always be remebered for bad marketing jokes like "button-awesome!" and "our most reactive game to date!”, not writing or characters, though the end result in this department may very well turn out to be halfway decent after all is said and done (and all the dlc-s are out).
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January 21st, 2012, 19:50
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
I don't play (or plan to play) SWTOR but I am curious… What do you base your opinion on?
1) This stock report:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/ea-stoc…-fears-6348864

2) Casual observation of the servers upon launch compared to about 2 days ago (when I cancelled).

3) The fact that everyone I personally know who were really excited to get their hands on it, including me, no longer plays the game. For some it was the bugs/f'ed up patch. For others, like me, it just wasn't that fun to run down corridors 500 times, even if the quest was kicked off with a nice cut scene.

4) EA's marketing campaign has shifted from getting new subscribers to trying to keep the ones they have from leaving. = bad sign.

Sales weren't bad, but they were below expectations. Now, folks who DID buy it are leaving in droves. Of course, not everyone. I said it was tanking, not that it's about to go belly-up. Considering it cost $200m to make, it's a disappointment, tho.
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January 21st, 2012, 20:23
While not the fan Darkling is, I did like the writing a lot in DA2. It was one reason I played it 3 times. Well that and the fact I liked the idea of "just being" some adventurer who lived out their live in Kirkwall for awhile. I enjoyed being Hawke and I liked some of the abilities and some of the content … well the first time I saw it… that wore out fast real quick.

What bugged me was how good some of the stories and characters were only to find it became rather meaningless. They could have done so much more with the game given the time. Instead you get all these great options and choices with the mages/templars … only to be rail roaded into a singular ending no matter what you did. Its like this great epic story building on your choices … only to have it all thrown away in the end as pretty meaningless. Everything plays out the same. At least DAO had some impact and options at the end.

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January 21st, 2012, 22:16
Originally Posted by tolknaz View Post
I very much doubt that. If someone truly likes the story and the characters, fine. Remove these from the equation and the result is one horrible mess of a game, full of design decisions that could only be described as copouts. If only EA had spent some money on the actual game instead of hype. This game will always be remebered for bad marketing jokes like "button-awesome!" and "our most reactive game to date!”, not writing or characters, though the end result in this department may very well turn out to be halfway decent after all is said and done (and all the dlc-s are out).
DA:O's marketing featured Marilyn Manson "This is the New Shit" blasting over ridiculous blood splatters. It was mocked at the time and deservedly so but nobody eyerolls about the marketing of the game now. It's irrelevant. The 'awesome button' thing is the same thing. Marketing is forgotten. That's a wound time will heal, as it has in the past.

Also, all the DLC's aren't out. There'll be at least one more, likely coinciding with the release of the "anime".
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January 21st, 2012, 22:24
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Hubris by BioWare (We can make a game of equal quality to DA:Q in 15 months) or blackmail by EA (You have to make next DA installment in 15 months or else) or both…
Both is probably fairest. The reason for the quick turnaround is fairly clear- having Bioware producing 2 games that release within months of each other is a bad idea (due to 'pipelining': both games would demand things like art and models at a high level at the same time, rather than each peaking at different times)- and as such you can either rush or delay to get them synched up correctly. That rush was chosen is hardly surprising.

Personally, I think Bioware did have enough time to make DA2, though it was never going to be comfortable. They'd have been working on it since the PC version of DAO was finished since the writers and designers, and even a lot of the artists, would have had little to do with the porting; it was using an existing engine etc. Most of the impressions I've got is that it was essentially poor planning, Producing and oversight that made most of the fundamental problems.
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January 21st, 2012, 23:24
@ChaosTheory, I think you've significantly jumped the gun. I've seen cost estimates from $50 - $200M — noone knows for sure. EA consistently said they could make a profit on 500k subscribers (though I'm sure they hoped for much more, obviously). Based on posts on various boards, my anecdotal evidence is players are enjoying the game. Is my observation more accurate than your friends? Both are useless but I'm not seeing widespread dissatisfaction, like I have with many other MMOs. And that stock report is a waste of time - even he other analysts in the same article disagree.

Time will tell but it's way too soon to call it now.

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January 22nd, 2012, 06:11
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
@ChaosTheory, I think you've significantly jumped the gun. I've seen cost estimates from $50 - $200M — noone knows for sure. EA consistently said they could make a profit on 500k subscribers (though I'm sure they hoped for much more, obviously). Based on posts on various boards, my anecdotal evidence is players are enjoying the game. Is my observation more accurate than your friends? Both are useless but I'm not seeing widespread dissatisfaction, like I have with many other MMOs. And that stock report is a waste of time - even he other analysts in the same article disagree.

Time will tell but it's way too soon to call it now.
http://www.gamespot.com/news/star-wa…evelop-6348959

I'm not just pulling this stuff out of my arse…

And observation is more accurate than speculation, which is the case here with my experience in addition to anything my friends have done. When you're on the busiest server at launch day, yet a month later you're finding only 20-30 players on a mid-level planet (the entire planet), there's something wrong.

It's not failing, but it's certainly not the blockbusting WOW-killer they had thought it was going to be. A lot of people bought it initially, but many have left already. All MMOs have that initial drop off, but I suspect it's bigger here than anyone's willing to admit right now. Time will tell, I guess.
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January 22nd, 2012, 06:20
ChaosTheory I belive you. I know many people who only bought the game with the free access for 30 days. The problem EA and Bioware face is how many will stay after the first couple of months. Time will tell.

I see this game becomong F2P in a year or two. Remember thats my opinion not fact so don't get all hyperactive and think on no he didn't.

As for me I'm not interested in MMO's anymore. WOW burned me out.

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January 22nd, 2012, 08:50
Originally Posted by ChaosTheory View Post
Considering that SWTOR is tanking […]
It's not failing, but it's certainly but it's certainly not the blockbusting WOW-killer they had thought it was going to be.
Tanking = failing, where I come from. If you'd said "it's certainly not the blockbusting WOW-killer they had thought it was going to be" in the first place, I wouldn't have responded but you clearly said it was failing and then just backed out of it.

I'm not just pulling this stuff out of my arse…
I didn't say you were - I said I've seen various speculation about the cost and your link is no different. GameSpot links to LA Times who offer no quote or source, so it's more speculation.

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January 22nd, 2012, 08:57
I wonder if kotor 3 had been more successfull than swtor. I quess we will never know

As for DAII, its funny how the same gaming sites which intially gave DA2 high praises have now all suddenly changed their opinion. Let me quote the escapist's own 5 star review:

"Bottom Line: A pinnacle of role-playing games with well-designed mechanics and excellent story-telling, Dragon Age II is what videogames are meant to be.

Recommendation: Buy it, steal it, beat up your little brother so you can play it.
And the link to their orginal Da2 review: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/arti…ge-II-Review.2
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January 22nd, 2012, 12:05
Didn't DA2 manage to sell over 1 million copies in its first week? Even if SWTOR follows a different business model bEAware can't be too happy if a massive star wars game trails behind a poorly received sequel on a budget.

If it cost 200 million, or even half that, it would surely take more than 500k subscribers for a year to break even, those numbers sound bogus.

Originally Posted by Gamespot
Lucas gave BioWare nearly "free rein" to do as it wished with the license. However, the newspaper reports LucasArts staff stepped in to "soften" some of the more "risqué" material, including scenes involving sex slaves.
Oh yeah, I can smell the freedom from here. Did they remove all sex slaves from the game? No more bikini princesses in Jabba's hut?
Last edited by KapitanUnterhosen; January 22nd, 2012 at 12:29.
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