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RPGWatch Forums » General Forums » Off-Topic » Let's Opera with (the incredibly classy) Vii Zafira! Il Trovatore.

Default Let's Opera with (the incredibly classy) Vii Zafira! Il Trovatore.

February 7th, 2012, 15:25


Bonjour, trolls and trollettes watchers and watcherettes. Pleased to meet you. I am your incredibly slim, stylish, fashionable, charming, and irresistible Let's Opera! host, and while this lasts I'll also be your guide into incline, unrelenting incline. You can call me Kimagure Majo Yousei Vii Zafira, and I am in no way a feline. Promise. Nor a witch.



Inspired by Kz3r0's opera threads and Vaarna's that-total-jerk-I'm-no-longer-online-friends-with's Let's Read threads (both references to that forum which shall not be named) I decided to try my hand at something new and kind of different: Let's opera! So in this thread of mine, as well as a couple more future ones I have already planned, we will listen opera while we read the librettos in both the original language and a translation, and don our monocles and top hats to discuss this and that in a cultured and refined enviroment between an update and the next. Which means this will probably be about me and Kz3r0 talking among ourselves while crickets play unfitting music and balls of dry grass roll around, but I wanted to try my hand at it anyway.

07.02.12: In retrospective that's more or less exactly what happened. Go figure.

In this one thread, as you can surely deduce from the thread's subject, we will be listening Verdi's Il Trovatore. By which I mean I will upload it to YouTube, bit by bit, and I will post here the link to the video, which at least for now will be a static image with music, and the bit's libretto in both Italian and english, and you can read while they sing and stuffies. I will be making the translation myself with a little bit of guidance from other translations I have read, and that's kind of half the point of this all, so feel free to point any mistakes I make so that I can fix them.

Before proceeding, however, I will do a little bit of an introduction for those of you who aren't into this. Il Trovatore is one of the three operas that represent the middle point of Verdi's career and evolution as a composer, in which it can be argued he starts moving away from the kind of solid structure the medium had developed into and finding his own way of doing things, at times even playing with the public's spectatives and the medium's tropes to surprise them and confuse them. The other two operas from this, let's say, trilogy are Rigoletto and La Traviata, and I plan on doing all those three at the very least.

The libretto is an adaptation written mostly by Salvadore Cammarano of the homonymous play by Antonio Garcia Gutierrez, a well known spanish dramaturge who became pretty important thanks to, precisely, that work of his, which kind of sent his career rocketing through the roof. Cammarano himself was a pretty prolific librettist, also known as that guy who wrote Donizetti's Lucia Di Lammermoor, and he kind of died writing this one. Literally, so Verdi got the not often seen chance of not only asking for a second opinion but also of getting directly and deeply involved in the libretto with the help of a young upstart poet by the name of Leone Emanuele Bardare.

According to Enrico Caruso, who even the most commonerish of you must know at least by name, the only thingie you need to make a good Il Trovatore are the four greatest singers in the entire world. The entire work hangs from just four roles: Il Conte Di Luna, Manrico, Leonora, and Azucena. Everyone else is just colour and movement, fluff and background lore. We will be listening to the recording Carlo Maria Giulini directed back in the eighties, which includes a pretty good line up and I like enough for me to have it on one of the memory thingies I always keep on my purse so I can listen to it every now and then, when it strikes me to do so. This recording is considered kind of atypical and not the most representative, however, by a lot of people. I don't care, shoo.

The Dramatis Personae thingie, now.

Il Conte Di Luna, which means Count of Luna if you didn't knew, is a nobleman in the Prince of Aragon's payroll, and is in love with Leonora, the local distressed soprano blonde. He is sung by a Baritone and is, all in all, a really funny character. It is interesting to point that it was Verdi who codified the Baritone voice, and up until then it was considered indistinct from a Bass, or at least a variation of it. Verdi was so in love with Baritones that he did a lot of work for and with them, and today there is the concept of a Verdi baritone as being almost it's own type of voice. In this recording the role goes to Giorgio Zancanaro.

Manrico is an officer in the Prince of Urgel's army. He is also in love with Leonora, and is the titular troubadour. That's what trovatore means, if you were wondering. He is sung by a tenor, Placido Domingo in this one recording. Domingo does him very well, and this recording convinced me Domingo was kind of born to play this kind of idealistic and nice and slightly emo character. His deserto sulla terra is, like, one of the most totally D'awww! Have huggies! moments in opera. Ever.

Azucena's a gypsy and Manrico's mother. She is sung by a Mezzo Soprano, Brigitte Fassbaender here. I really love how she does the role, it's coarse and weird and cool at the same time. Mezzo Soprano characters tend to have a lot more character and personality than most sopranos, since we are at it. Most of the time, at least.

Leonora's a noblewoman who is in love with Manrico yet courted by a Conte Di Luna who doesn't know how to take no for an answer. A soprano does her, Rosalind Plowright in this recording. Note, however, that since then Rosalind Plowright's range has gone into Mezzo Soprano territory and she no longer is considered a Soprano. I'm not that much into sopranos, myself. Most of the time they are too aetheric and innocent and distressed damsel and, like, conceptually blonde, if you get my meaning. I tend to get sleepy when an opera goes into those long arias were a Soprano girl sings alone and really slowly about her woes for ten straight minutes while i'm bitting my nails in expectation of what will happen when she actually stops holding the drama down to do bird imitations. Though I do really like a couple of soprano roles, usually written by Mozart, and get to at least enjoy a good amount of others.

Those are the important ones. I have the rest of the cast written somewhere so just kind of ask me if you hear some other voice you like and want to check names.



That's it, more or less. On a final note I plan on adding other recordings and versions I like later on, once the Libretto is complete, every now and then.



And since we are at it, in before round two of Wagner's boring and overrated. EDIT: The animated .gif that was posted here crashed the thread for IE users, so I removed it.-Jaz

Erm, I mean… If I were a feline, that is. But I'm not, so we won't need to go there at all. Promise.

07.02.12: I was going to remove that last part, but… Shitstorm incoming!

Tell me more, tell me more… Like, does he have a car?

Let's opera! Il Trovatore.
Last edited by Jaz; February 7th, 2012 at 23:10. Reason: removed animated .gif that crashed thread in IE
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February 7th, 2012, 15:26
Table of contents



Act the first; Il Duello.

Scene the first.
Scene the second.

Act the second; La Zingara.

Scene the first.
Scene the second.

Act the third; Il Figlio della Zingara.

Scene the first.
Scene the second.

Act the fourth; Il supplizio.

Comming soon.






07.02.12:

The first three updates are actually reposts from the originals that can be found at that other forum which shall not be named. From the second half of the second act, however, we will be going into new places no sorcerous cat has threaded before. Those reposts, however, will have all pertinent corrections already applied to them. And stuffies.

And thankies to both Mrowak and Patrick who dared the horrors of that place to rescue the posts' source code thingies for moi. Have huggies!

Tell me more, tell me more… Like, does he have a car?

Let's opera! Il Trovatore.
Last edited by Vii Zafira; April 27th, 2012 at 21:31. Reason: Thankies! And updated, four times!
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February 7th, 2012, 15:50
Act the first; Il Duello. Scene the first.
In which exposition happens. No one really minds, though, given the expositors have pretty good voices.



The story begins with a secondary character, Ferrando, as well as some of the Count of Luna's household members and bodyguards. Ferrando himself is none other than the captain to the Count's guard, and is played by Evgeny Nesterenko. We are in the Aljaferia Palace, a real moorish castle in Zaragoza. The oldest building in the castle, a pretty massive tower, is usually called the troubadour tower given it's central to Antonio Garcia Gutierrez’ drama. Google Images has some pretty cool photographs on the castle, if you are feeling curious. It's a pretty impressive example of moorish-spaniard architecture.

Some notes before we start, though. The scene makes use of several different words for owl, yet again I am only able to translate that as, say, owl. Is there any other way to write owl in english, leaving aside adding a barn before it? Finally, there are three or four different words for witch used through the scene, but I did translate them all as witch because that's how I personally understood the situation and the way the character was being interpreted by the superstitious guards and Familiars.

And if someone cares Il Duello means The Duel.

Remember I'm taking corrections not only on the actual translation but on the writing and flow of it. Some phrases and lines are really hard to write in english while keeping most of the explicit details, given both are really different languages. It's much easier to make a 1:1 translation that sounds nice into spanish or french, and I'm quite scared of leaving outside details so I prefer to err to the side of wooden writing than to the side of leaving details outside.

In the end part of the point of this is me practicing my italian, so I'm quite open to critique.



—-> http://youtu.be/4IrltTpuOEU <—-

Attrio nel palazzo dell'Aliaferia. Da un lato, porta che mette agli appartamenti del Conte di Luna. Ferrando e molti familiari del Conte giacciono presso la porta; alcuni uomini d'arme passeggiano in fondo.

Atrium in the palace of Aljaferia. To the side, door leading into the Count of Luna's chambers. Ferrando and many of the Count's familiars rest near the door; some men at arms walk through the far side.

Ferrando, ai familiari vicini ad assopirsi: All'erta, all'erta! Il Conte c'č d'uopo attender vigilando; ed egli talor, presso i veroni della sua cara, intere passa le notti.

Ferrando, to the sleepy familiars nearby: Attention, attention! To the Count it is our duty to keep watch; He, as usual, near his beloved's balcony spends the whole night.

Familiari: Gelosia le fiere serpi gli avventa in petto!

Familiars: Jealousy the fierce serpents throws in his chest!

Ferrando: Nel trovator, che dai giardini move notturno il canto, d'un rivale a dritto ei teme.

Ferrando: In the troubadour, who sings in the gardens at night, a rival he rightfully fears.

Familiari: Dalle gravi palpebre il sonno a discacciar, la vera storia ci narra di Garzia, germano al nostro Conte.

Familiars: Tell us, to remove sleepiness from our heavy eyelids, the true story of Garzia, brother-german of our Count.

Ferrando: La dirň: venite intorno a me.

Ferrando: I will. Come around me.

I Familiari eseguiscono

The Familiars do as told.

Armigeri: Noi pure…

Bodyguards: Us too…

Familiari: Udite, udite.

Familiars: Hear, hear.

Tutti accerchiano Ferrando.

Everyone gets close to Ferrando.



—-> http://youtu.be/3whn5ibA4_U <—-

Ferrando: Di due figli vivea padre beato il buon Conte di Luna: fida nutrice del secondo nato dormia presso la cuna. Sul romper dell'aurora un bel mattino ella dischiude i rai; e chi trova d'accanto a quel bambino?

Familiars: As the happy father of two sons lived the good Count of Luna. The second son's loyal wetnurse slept next to the craddle. As the day breaks she opens and eye; and what does she finds besides the child?

Coro: Chi?… Favella… Chi mai?

Chorus: Who? Speak… To whom?

Ferrando: Abbietta zingara, fosca vegliarda! Cingeva i simboli di una maliarda! E sul fanciullo, con viso arcigno, l'occhio affiggeva torvo, sanguigno! D'orror compresa č la nutrice… Acuto un grido all'aura scioglie; ed ecco, in meno che il labbro il dice, i servi accorrono in quelle soglie; e fra minacce, urli e percosse la rea discacciano ch'entrarvi osň.

Ferrando: A despicable gypsy, a crone surrounded by all the signs of a witch! And in the child, with grim visage, her eye rested menacingly, ardent! Of horror full the wetnurse a sharp scream let go and thus, in less than the mouth can say it, the Familiars rush through the door. And between threats, yells, and strikes they chased away the offender who dared entering thus.

Coro: Giusto quei petti sdegno commosse; l'insana vecchia lo provocň.

Chorus: Righteous outrage moved those breasts; the insane crone provoked it.

Ferrando: Asserě che tirar del fanciullino l'oroscopo volea… Bugiarda! Lenta febbre del meschino la salute struggea! Coverto di pallor, languido, affranto ei tremava la sera. Il dě traeva in lamentevol pianto… Ammaliato egli era!

Ferrando: She swears she wanted nothing but to read the child's fortune… Liar! A slow fever his health wrecked: Pale, languid, exhausted through the nights he trembled, and the day brought wretched weeping… Cursed he was!

Il coro inorridisce.

The chorus is appaled.

Ferrando: La fattucchiera perseguitata fu presa, e al rogo fu condannata; ma rimaneva la maledetta figlia, ministra di ria vendetta! Compi quest'empia nefando eccesso!… Sparve il fanciullo e si rinvenne mal spenta brace nel sito istesso ov'arsa un giorno la strega venne! E d'un bambino… ahimč! L'ossame bruciato a mezzo, fumante ancor!

Ferrando: The witch was pursued and caught, and to the pyre was she condemned; But her acursed daughter remained, administer of her revenge! The unholy one fulfiled the nefandous trespass… The child disappeared, and the embers from the witch's pyre were found badly doused. (still burning, maybe?) And from a child… Ay! The half burnt bones, smoking still!

Coro: Ah scellerata!… oh donna infame! Del par m'investe odio ed orror!

Chorus: Wicked, vile woman! Equally inspires hate and horror!

Alcuni: E il padre?

Some: And what of the father?

Ferrando: Brevi e tristi giorni visse: pure ignoto del cor presentimento gli diceva che spento non era il figlio; ed, a morir vicino, bramň che il signor nostro a lui giurasse di non cessar le indagini… ah! fur vane!…

Ferrando: He lived few and sad days, and to his heart a mysterious presentiment insisted his son wasn't dead. Close to death he asked from our lord never to stop looking for him… But, ah!, it was in vain!

Armigeri: E di colei non s'ebbe contezza mai?

Bodyguards: And wasn't from her ever heard again?

Ferrando: Nulla contezza… Oh, dato mi fosse rintracciarla un dě!…

Ferrando: Nothing. Ah, if only was it given to me to track her down someday!

Familiari: Ma ravvisarla potresti?

Familiars: But would you be able to recognize her?

Ferrando: Calcolando gli anni trascorsi… Lo potrei.

Ferrando: Taking into account the years gone by… I would.

Armigieri: Sarebbe tempo presso la madre all'inferno spedirla.

Bodyguards: It's about time to send her to hell, to her mother.

Ferrando: All'inferno? Č credenza che dimori ancor nel mondo l'anima perduta dell'empia strega, e quando il cielo č nero in varie forme altrui si mostri.

Ferrando: To hell? It's said the evil witch's soul in the world remains still, and when the sky is black in many forms she appears.

Coro, con terrore: E vero!

Chorus, with horror: It's true!

Alcuni: Su l'orlo dei tetti alcun l'ha veduta!

Some: At the edge of the roof some have seen her!

Altri: In upupa o strige talora si muta!

Others: In hoopoe and striga (A creature witches are said to be able to turn into, kind of a monstrous vampiric owl lady.) she turns sometimes!

Altri: In corvo tal'altra; piů spesso in civetta! Sull'alba fuggente al par di saetta.

Others: In crow other times, and much more into owl! And at dawn she escapes like lightning.

Ferrando: Morě di paura un servo del conte, che avea della zingara percossa la fronte!

Ferrando: Died of fright a servant of the count, who had hit, of the gypsy, the brow.

Tutti si pingono di superstizioso terrore.

All of them are tinged with superstitious terror.

Ferrando: Apparve a costui d'un gufo in sembianza Nell'alta quiete di tacita stanza!… Con l'occhio lucente guardava il cielo attristando d'un urlo feral! Allor mezzanotte appunto suonava…

Ferrando: To this man she appeared in the form of an owl in the deep quietness of a silent chamber! With a gleaming eye watched, grimly darkening the sky with a feral cry! And as the bells of midnight did sound toll…

Una campana suona a distesa mezzanotte.

A bell announces the coming of midnight.

Tutti: Ah! Sia maledetta la strega infernal!

Ferrando: Ah! Damned be the infernal witch!

Con subito soprassalto odonsi alcuni tocchi di tamburo. Gli uomini d'arme accorrono in fondo; i Familiari corrono verso la porta.

All of a sudden some strokes of drums are heard. The men of arms run towards the back, the familiars run towards the door.



And thus ends the first scene. Next time we meet we will get some quite nice and dynamic soprano moments as we meet Leonora and Ines, her handmaiden. The next scene is quite longer, though, and thus I will probably have to cut it into two or three parts for it to be manageable.

Having the cover in all the videos is kind of boring and generic, though, so i'm going to host a, uhm, thingie! Like, I want you to draw me a Codexian Devil singing opera to use. I don't. Fuck that. Instead, I want you to get me a cool or funny or weird opera related, Verdi related, or Il Trovatore related image all the same. Yes, you. Meaning my, like, two and a half readers. I'll go cry myself to sleep, yes. That I'll do.



07.02.12: It seems we are having a problem with special characters used on Italian. I'll fix it later.

Tell me more, tell me more… Like, does he have a car?

Let's opera! Il Trovatore.
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February 7th, 2012, 20:57
Glad that you are continuing this.
For the image, how about this one?
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February 7th, 2012, 22:33
I don't know about cool or funny, but I certainly have something weird - a curiosity of sorts - the poster from the first larger staging of Il Trovatore in the land of the raising potato. It's pretty morbid, though:



Yes, yes - that's the real deal. I don't know what the author was taking.
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February 7th, 2012, 22:57
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February 7th, 2012, 22:57
It is a good thing that culture, civilization and class are being introduced to this wild place.



There is an idea of a Patrick Bateman; some kind of abstraction. But there is no real me: only an entity, something illusory. And though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable… I simply am not there.
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February 7th, 2012, 23:02
Hghn hghn. Me likes.*grunts*

Semper HiFi!
Motto of the 54th Groove Bde.
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February 8th, 2012, 04:16
Originally Posted by Kz3r0 View Post
Haha, shit - Now I realise where I knew this poster from.

Anyway, carry one noble Vii. Only you can being :incline: to this ill-begotten cesspool of misery. Oops, wrong place.
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February 8th, 2012, 13:56
Act the first; Il Duello. Scene the second.
In which manliness happens.



The second scene begins with Leonora and her handmaiden, Ines, sung, I believe, by Anna di Stasio on this recording, in the gardens of the palace. Later we will meet both Manrico and the Count of Luna, and they will proceed to school us on how real men act. Cue fifteen pages of you wretched woman with the hots for unrepentant sociopaths, etc. There are some lines really hard to translate here, so I must warn you some wooden phrases and a couple of mistakes are surely lurking ahead. I believe it came with much better flow than the previous one, though.

This scene also contains several nice moments: Tacea la notte placida, deserto sulla terra, a really cute duet with Leonora and Ines, and the very nice Di Gelosso Amor Sprezzato, which, for me at least, makes Il Conte a really likeable character, full of zeal and passion and a kind of twisted cuteness.

08.02.2012: He only needs some huggies!



—-> http://youtu.be/3Cfk6yLTreY <—-

Giardini del palazzo. Sulla destra marmorea scalinata che mette agli appartamenti. La notte è inoltrata; dense nubi coprono la luna.

The palace's gardens. To the right a marmol stairway leads into the chambers. The night is advanced; dense clouds cover the moon.

Ines: Che più t'arresti? L'ora è tarda: vieni. Di te la regal donna chiese, l'udisti.

Ines: What else holds you? It's late, come. For you the royal lady called, you heard her.

Leonora: Un'altra notte ancora senza vederlo…

Leonora: Another night without seeing him…

Ines: Perigliosa fiamma tu nutri! Oh come, dove la primiera favilla in te s'apprese?

Ines: You are feeding a dangerous flame! Oh! How, when did you catch the first spark?

Leonora: Ne' tornei. V'apparve bruno le vesti ed il cimier, lo scudo bruno e di stemma ignudo, sconosciuto guerrier, che dell'agone gli onori ottenne… Al vincitor sul crine il serto io posi. Civil guerra intanto arse… Nol vidi più! Come d'aurato sogno fuggente imago! ed era volta lunga stagion… ma poi…

Leonora: In tournament. In dark clothes and helm he appeared, the shield black and devoid of heraldry. An unknown warrior who all the honours of the contest (or "the honours of battle", it's indistinct) obtained, and it was me who placed the garland among the victor's mane. Meanwhile, the civil war raged… And I did not see him again! As from a golden dream escaped, his image! And so it was for a long time… but then…

Ines: Che avvenne?

Ines: What happened?

Leonora: Ascolta. Tacea la notte placida, e bella in ciel sereno la luna il viso argenteo mostrava lieto e pieno… Quando suonar per l'aere, infino allor sì muto, dolci s'udiro e flebili gli accordi d'un liuto, e versi melanconici un trovator cantò. Versi di prece ed umile qual d'uom che prega Iddio, in quella ripeteasi un nome… il nome mio! Corsi al veron sollecita… Egli era! egli era desso! Gioia provai che agli angeli solo è provar concesso… Al core, al guardo estatico la terra un ciel sembrò.

Leonora: Hear. Silent the quiet night, and beautiful in the serene sky showed the moon her argent face, joyous and full… When sounding through the air, complete before it's silence, sweet were heard the faint chords of a lute, and melancholic verses a troubadours did chant. Verses of prayer and humility as those from a man who prays to God, in which was repeated a name… my name! Prompt I ran to the balcony… It was he! It was he alright! I did taste that which only angels are allowed to taste… To the heart, to the extatic sight, earth as heaven felt.

Ines: Quanto narrasti di turbamento m'ha piena l'alma! Io temo…

Ines: What you tell fills my soul with anxiety! I fear…

Leonora: Invano!

Leonora: In vain!

Ines: Dubbio, ma triste presentimento in me risveglia quest'uomo arcano! Tenta obliarlo…

Ines: I doubt. A sad presage wakes in me this mysterious man! Try to forget him…

Leonora: Che dici! oh basti!

Leonora: What do you say? Oh, stop!

Ines: Cedi al consiglio dell'amistà… Cedi…

Ines: Give in to the counsel of friendship… surrender…

Leonora: Obliarlo! Ah, tu parlasti detto che intendere l'alma non sa. Di tale amor che dirsi mal può dalla parola, d'amor che intendo io sola, il cor s'inebriò! Il mio destino compiersi non può che a lui dappresso… S'io non vivrò per esso, per esso io morirò!

Leonora: To forget him! Ah, you speak commands that the soul of understanding doesn't know. Of such a love that hardly can be put in words, of a love I alone understand, is my heart inebriated! My fate can't be fulfilled but next to him… If I don't live thus, thus I die!

Ines: Non debba mai pentirsi chi tanto un giorno amò!

Ines: May she who one day thus loved never needs to repent!

Ascendono agli appartamenti. Il conte di Luna entra in le giardino.

They ascend into their chambers. The Count of Luna enters the garden.



—-> http://youtu.be/1mmfHCoxtTI <—-

Conte: Tace la notte! Immersa nel sonno, è certo, la regal signora; ma veglia la sua dama… Oh! Leonora, tu desta sei; mel dice, da quel verone, tremolante un raggio della notturna lampa… Ah! l'amorosa fiamma m'arde ogni fibra! Ch'io ti vegga è d'uopo, che tu m'intenda… Vengo… A noi supremo è tal momento…

Count: A quiet night! Deep in slumber, certainly, the royal mistress; but her lady keeps watch… Oh! Leonora, you are awake; The flickering nightly lamp, in that balcony, tells me so… Ah! The flame of love burns my every fiber! For me to see you and then for you to understand me, I come. For us, supreme is such a time…

Cieco d'amore avviasi verso la gradinata. Odonsi gli accordi d'un liuto: egli s'arresta.

Blind of love he sets out for the steps. The chords of a lute are heard, he stops.

Count: Il Trovator! Io fremo!

Count: The troubadour! I tremble!

La voce de Manrico: Deserto sulla terra, col rio destino in guerra e sola spese un cor al trovator!

Manrico's voice: Left alone upon the earth, with the stream of fate (I have seen it translated as with terrible fate too, so maybe that's the right one.) at war, it is but single a heart spent in the troubadour!

Count: Oh detti! Io fremo!

Count: Oh, recitations! I tremble!

La voce de Manrico: Ma s'ei quel cor possiede, bello di casta fede, e d'ogni re maggior il trovator!

Manrico's Voice: But if such heart he had, beautiful in chaste faith, greater than all kings would be the troubadour!

Conte: Oh detti! Oh gelosia! Non m'inganno… Ella scende!

Count: Oh, recitations! Oh, jealously! I don't deceive myself… she descends!

S'avvolge nel suo mantello.

He wraps himself on his cloak

Leonora, correndo verso il Conte: Anima mia!

Leonora, running towards the Count: My soul! (This may sound weird for some people. In the romance languages it is basicaly another way of saying my love.)

Conte, fra sè: Che far?

Count, to himself: What to do?

Leonora: Più dell'usato è tarda l'ora; io ne contai gl'istanti co' palpiti del core! Alfin ti guida pietoso amor tra queste braccia…

Leonora: The hour is later than usual; I have counted the moments with the beats of my heart! At last merciful love brought you to those arms…

Manrico: Infida!

Manrico: Treacherous woman!

La luna mostrasi dai nugoli, e lascia scorgere una persona, di cui la visiera nasconde il volto.

The moon comes through the clouds and let a person be seen, the face hidden by his helm's cover.

Leonora: Qual voce… Ah, dalle tenebre tratta in errore io fui!

Leonora: That voice… Ah, by the darkness dealt in error I was!

Riconoscendo entrambi, e gettandosi ai piedi di Manrico, agitatissima.

Recognizing both she throws herself to Manrico's feet, very agigated.

Leonora: A te credei rivolgere l'accento e non a lui… A te, che l'alma mia sol chiede, sol desia… Io t'amo, il giuro, io t'amo d'immenso, eterno amor!

Leonora: To you I believed I was answering those words, not to him. To you, the one my soul wants, desires… I love you, I swear, I love you with immense, eternal love!

Conte: Ed osi?

Count: You dare?

Manrico, sollevando Leonora: Ah, più non bramo!

Manrico, helping Leonora to her feet: Ah, say no more!

Count: Avvampo di furor! Se un vil non sei discopriti.

Count: I flare with anger! If you aren't vile, show your face!

Leonora: Ohimè!

Lenora: Ay!

Conte: Palesa il nome…

Count: Reveal to me your name…

Leonora: Deh, per pietà!

Leonora: Ah! Mercy!

Manrico, sollevando la visiera dell'elmo: Ravvisami. Manrico io son.

Manrico, raising the helm's cover: Recognize me. I am Manrico.

Conte: Tu… Come! Insano temerario! D'Urgel seguace, a morte proscritto, ardisci volgerti a queste regie porte?

Count: You… How?! Reckless madman! Urgel's henchman, to death condemned, boldly you turn to those royal gates?

Manrico: Che tardi? Or via, le guardie appella, ed il rivale al ferro del carnefice consegna.

Manrico: What stops you? Now, call for the guards, and your rival to the executioner's iron deliver.

Conte: Il tuo fatale istante assai più prossimo è, dissennato! Vieni…

Count: Your fated time is near, fool! Come…

Leonora: Conte!

Leonora: Count!

Conte: Al mio sdegno vittima è d'uopo ch'io ti sveni…

Count: As a sacrifice to my indignation you must be bled…

Leonora: Oh ciel! T'arresta…

Leonora: Oh, heaven! Stop…

Conte: Seguimi…

Count: Follow me…

Manrico: Andiam…

Manrico: Let's go…

Leonora: Che mai farň? Un sol mio grido perdere lo puote… M'odi…

Leonora: What can I do? A single word of mine can lose him… Hear me!

Conte: No! Di geloso amor sprezzato arde in me tremendo il foco! Il tuo sangue, o sciagurato, ad estinguerlo fia poco!

Count: No! From a jealous love despised burns in me the tremendous fire! Your blood, wretch, to extinguish it will not be enough.

Conte, a Leonora: Dirgli, o folle, Io t'amo, ardisti! Ei più vivere non può… Un accento proferisti che a morir lo condannò!

Count, to Leonora: You said, crazy woman, I love you, boldly! And he can't live anymore… You uttered a word that condemned him to die!

Leonora: Un istante almen dia loco il tuo sdegno alla ragione… Io, sol io, di tanto foco son, pur troppo, la cagione! Piombi, ah! piombi il tuo furore sulla rea che t'oltraggiò… Vibra il ferro in questo core, che te amar non vuol, né può.

Leonora: For at least an instant yield, madman, your indignation to reason… It is me, only me, of such fire, by much, the reason! Pour, ah! Pour your fire over the offender who insulted you… (or "the culprit of insulting you", pick the one you like the most) Twist the iron on this heart that wants not to love you, nor is able to.

Manrico: Del superbo vana è l'ira! Ei cadrà da me trafitto. Il mortal che amor t'ispira, dall'amor fu reso invitto.

Manrico: Of this presumptuous is in vain the rage! He will fall by my lunge. The mortal your love inspires, by love was rendered indomitable.

Manrico, al Conte: La tua sorte è già compita… L'ora ormai per te suonò! Il suo core e la tua vita il destino a me serbò!

Manrico, to the Count: Your luck is already spent… Your hour is near to ring! Her heart and your live fate to me has offered!

I due rivali si allontanano con le spade sguainate; Leonora cade, priva di sentimenti.

The two rivals leave with swords unsheathed. Leonora falls, unconscious.



And thus the first act's second scene, and the act itself, comes to an end. Will our hero die from tetosterone poisoning so early in the story? The next time we meet we will discover the outcome of their contest, and we will also meet the one main character we still haven't met. Many singing and dancing gypsies, too.

I actually like this scene we just went through very much. And from the point in which the Count comes into the garden the entire situation goes straight into a mixture of epic and hysterical in a handbasket, it's pretty nicely done.

Some people read it as the Count being a posesive jerk, but I am not so sure. It is kind of understandable he is mad, given the context and situation, and Il Trovatore can't really claim the moral highground when he is just as willing to slay the Count over a mixture of politics and jealously as the Count himself is willing to slay the troubadour over it. I like them both, and both are, in their own way, deeply devoted to Leonora.

Anyways. More epic singing next time we meet, then. Goodbye, for now!

08.02.2012: Or, like, goodbye for now after answering the posty posts!



@ Jaz

A new fan! I hope you enjoy this thread to the very end!

And I'm sorry about the gif thingie you had to fix. Is that a problem with all animated gif thingies or just with that particular one?

@ Kz3r0
@ Mrowakus
@ Patrick

Thank you for the awesome images. I'm kind of surprised at the kind of creepy and sinister images Il Trovatore gets, though. Those look straight from The Fiery Angel or some thingie like that.

Originally Posted by Kz3r0
There's a marked lack of pointy hats, brooms, pretty little dresses, and cuteness in that Coven. And what kind of witch considers Appearance to be her dump stat? Back to witch school, the lot of 'em!

The hanging baby thingies are a nice touch, though.

Tell me more, tell me more… Like, does he have a car?

Let's opera! Il Trovatore.
Last edited by Vii Zafira; February 8th, 2012 at 14:07.
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February 8th, 2012, 14:16
The artistic depiction of witches traditionally follows folklore or the portrayal derived from witch-trials, other ways to depict them are definitely on the erotic side.
However here the pointy hats, the witches are male tho.

Maybe you will like this more:
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February 8th, 2012, 21:18
Originally Posted by Vii Zafira View Post
@ Jaz
A new fan! I hope you enjoy this thread to the very end!
Hehe, I'm positive about that .
And I'm sorry about the gif thingie you had to fix. Is that a problem with all animated gif thingies or just with that particular one?
Well, it seems as if this was a specific problem of combining Watch threads with animated Codex gifs. Make of this what you want , but this combo seems to crash/collapse/explode threads for IE users. I'm a Firefox user myself but several IE users had the problem.

Semper HiFi!
Motto of the 54th Groove Bde.
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February 10th, 2012, 00:22
Originally Posted by Vii Zafira View Post

I actually like this scene we just went through very much. And from the point in which the Count comes into the garden the entire situation goes straight into a mixture of epic and hysterical in a handbasket, it's pretty nicely done.
To be honest I didn't like the first part of it - :codex mode on: Leonora's conversation with Ines. Like even when listening to it for the first time, using the patchy knowledge of Latin and French to make up for non-existent command of Italian I knew exactly what it was about. To me, the tone itself was so droningly boring that it could only indicate a poor damsel having a heartache over a secret lover. It turns out, I wasn't off the mark at all. For some this may count as "objective achieved", I guess. Opera is supposed to be overemphatic, I hear. But this was just wrong… :codex mode off:

The second part, however, when Manrico and the Count appear is pure gold. Love the outrage in that scene - first, when the Count hears Manrico's singing, then when he catches Leonora (Infida!), then when Leonora confuses the Count with Manrico and he gets agitated, lastly when Count challenges Manrico (does it turn out Manrico was convicted for something? - it seems so). However, the last fragment strikes as strangely cheerful for such grave, suspenseful situation.

Anyway, I am rooting for the Count, even though I know that by all laws of Narrativium Manrico will win (I am assuming we won't get to see the full duel though - only the effect in another act).

Some people read it as the Count being a posesive jerk, but I am not so sure. It is kind of understandable he is mad, given the context and situation, and Il Trovatore can't really claim the moral highground when he is just as willing to slay the Count over a mixture of politics and jealously as the Count himself is willing to slay the troubadour over it. I like them both, and both are, in their own way, deeply devoted to Leonora.
Yeah, they are both on the level. Somehow I naturally gravitate towards the Count, though.
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February 10th, 2012, 00:55
Originally Posted by mrowakus View Post
(does it turn out Manrico was convicted for something? - it seems so)
Manrico is in the service of Prince of Urgel, a rebel and a pretender to the throne.

There is an idea of a Patrick Bateman; some kind of abstraction. But there is no real me: only an entity, something illusory. And though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable… I simply am not there.
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February 10th, 2012, 06:05
Act the second; La Zingara. Scene the first.
In which much exposition and great singing happens. Then off goes Manrico, being all manly and cool. Also, gypsies.



The first scene of the second act begins with Manrico recovering from wounds in a ruined house around which gypsies have made camp, or something similar. An uncertain amount of time has passed from the previous act, and as you will see the wounds Manrico is recovering from are not those suffered in the duel that closed the previous act but, instead, in a later one, in a battle amidst which he came across the count, again.

This scene is massive, and quite hard to translate. There's a lot of dialogue and exposition, and much lyrical language. This scene's also more or less a sucession of very identificable, representative, and enjoyable segments: The anvil chorus, stride la vampa, condotta ell'era in ceppi, and mal reggendo all'aspro assalto. Azucena, the one from among the four main roles we still had to meet, gets the spotlight in this scene, and I personally find her role in this recording, sung by Brigitte Fassbaender, quite enjoyable and interesting, and with a lot of character.

In any case, consider this a beta version. I am quite unsure about the translation on this one update, and kind of unhappy with the flow, but given I already got delayed quite a bit I will post it and then edit it as I polish it. And, again, feel free to suggest this or that as you see fit.



—> http://youtu.be/njlEpyaaNDQ <—

Un diruto abituro sulle falde di un monte della Biscaglia. Nel fondo, quasi tutto aperto, arde un gran fuoco. I primi albori. Azucena siede presso il fuoco. Manrico le sta disteso accanto sopra una coltrice ed avviluppato nel suo mantello; ha l'elmo ai piedi e fra le mani la spada, su cui figge immobilmente lo sguardo. Una banda di Zingari è sparsa all'interno.

A ruined dwelling on the lower slopes of a mount in Biscaglia. Behind, almost completely open, a great fire burns. The first lights of morning. Azucena sits next to the fire. Manrico, close to her, is stretched on a matress and wrapped on his cloak; he has his helm near his feet and between the hands the sword. A group of Gypsies is spread all around.

Zingari: Vedi! Le fosche notturne spoglie de' cieli sveste l'immensa volta; sembra una vedova che alfin si toglie i bruni panni ond'era involta. All'opra! all'opra! Dagli, martella.

Gypsies: See! The gloom of night empties the sky, naked the great vault; seems like a widow who at last removes the black clothes in which she was wrapped. To action! To work! Yield to the hammer.

Danno di piglio ai loro ferri del mestiere; al misurato tempestare dei martelli cadenti sulle incudini, or uomini, or donne, e tutti in un tempo infine intonano la cantilena seguente.

They grip the tools of their trade (both danno di piglio and ferri del mestiere are hard ones, as they are actually idioms. Even with Kz3r0's help I had a hard time understanding that line); to the measured tempest of the hammers' cadence join, now men, now woman, and all in the end, singing the following cantinela.

Gypsies: Chi del gitano i giorni abbella? La zingarella!

Gypsies: Who the days of the gypsy beautifies? The little gypsy girl!

Uomini, alle donne: Versami un tratto; lena e coraggio il corpo e l'anima traggon dal bere.

Men, to the women: Pour me a treat; vigour and courage the body and the soul draw from drink.

Le donne mescono ad essi in coppe.

The women pour to them in cups.

Tutti: Oh guarda, guarda! Del sole un raggio brilla più vivido nel mio/tuo bicchiere! All'opra, all'opra… Dagli, martella… Chi del gitano i giorni abbella? La zingarella!

Everyone: Oh see, see! Of the sun a ray shines more lively in my/your glass! To action, to work… Yield to the hammer… Who the days of the gypsy beautifies? The little gypsi girl!



—> http://youtu.be/uw1rozW5HIo <—

Azucena: Stride la vampa! La folla indomita corre a quel fuoco lieta in sembianza; urli di gioia intorno echeggiano: Cinta di sgherri donna s'avanza! Sinistra splende sui volti orribili la tetra fiamma che s'alza al ciel! Stride la vampa! Giunge la vittima nero vestita, discinta e scalza! Grido feroce di morte levasi; l'eco il ripete di balza in balza! Sinistra splende sui volti orribili la tetra fiamma che s'alza al ciel!

The flames clash! The wild mob runs to the fire delighted in semblance; joyful howls echo all around. Surrounded by goons the woman moves forward! Sinister shines upon their horrible faces the bleak flame raising to the sky! The flames clash! Arrives the victim clad in black, unfastened and barefoot! Fierce screams of death are raised; the echo repeats it from crag to crag! Sinister shines upon their horrible faces the bleak flame raising to the sky!



—> http://youtu.be/iGMDmFy_SBo <—

Zingari: Mesta è la tua canzon!

Gypsies: Sad is your song!

Azucena: Del pari mesta che la storia funesta da cui tragge argomento!

Azucena: As sad as the terrible story from which pulls its plot!

Rivolge il capo dalla parte di Manrico e mormora sommessamente.

She turns towards Manrico and whispers softly.

Azucena: Mi vendica… Mi vendica!

Azucena: Revenge me… revenge me!

Manrico, fra sè: L'arcana parola ognor!

Manrico, to himself: Again the mysterious word!

Vecchio Zingaro: Compagni, avanza il giorno. A procacciarci un pan, su, su! Scendiamo per le propinque ville.

Old Gypsy: Comrades, the day advances. To procure our bread, come on, come on! let's descend the neighbouring village.

Uomini: Andiamo.

Men: Let's go.

Ripongono sollecitamente nel sacco i loro arnesi.

They promptly place the tools in their sacks.

Donne: Andiamo.

Women: Let's go.

Tutti scendono alla rinfusa giù per la china; tratto tratto e sempre a distanza odesi il loro canto.

They descend the slope in bulk ; Every now and then, and always at a distance, is heard their chanting.

Zingari: Chi del gitano i giorni abbella? La zingarella!

Gypsies: Who the days of the gypsy beautifies? The little gypsy girl!



—> http://youtu.be/CcGz0niJ9q0 <—

Manrico: Soli or siamo; deh, narra questa storia funesta.

Manrico: We are alone; now, tell this terrible story.

Azucena: E tu la ignori, Tu pur! Ma, giovinetto, i passi tuoi d'ambizion lo sprone lungi traea! Dell'ava il fine acerbo e quest'istoria… La incolpò superbo conte di malefizio, onde asseria colto un bambin suo figlio… Essa bruciata venne ov'arde quel foco!

Azucena: And you ignore it, you too! But, young boy, the passing of your ambition it spurs in length! Of the bitter end of your ancestor is this story… The proud count charged her with sorcery, which a child, his son, had seized… She was burnt where that fire now burns.

Manrico, rifuggendo con raccapriccio dalla fiamma: Ahi! Sciagurata!

Manrico, retreating with horror from the flame: Ay, poor miserable!



—> http://youtu.be/-ukN7uXuat8 <—

Azucena: Condotta ell'era in ceppi al suo destin tremendo! Col figlio sulle braccia, io la seguia piangendo. Infino ad essa un varco tentai, ma invano aprirmi…
Invan tentò la misera fermarsi e benedirmi! Ché, fra bestemmie oscene, pungendola coi ferri, al rogo la cacciavano gli scellerati sgherri! Allor, con tronco accento: Mi vendica! esclamò. Quel detto un'eco eterna in questo cor lasciò.

Azucena: Taken was she, in shackles, to her terrible fate! With son in arms I followed crying. To her, in vain, I tried to open myself passage… In vain tried the pitiful to stop and bless me! And, among obscene curses, pricking her with irons, to the pyre threw her the villanous goons! Then, with broken words: Avenge me! she did exclaim. Such saying an eternal echo in this heart left.

Manrico: La vendicasti?

Manrico: Did you avenge her?

Azucena: Il figlio giunsi a rapir del Conte: Lo trascinai qui meco… Le fiamme ardean già pronte.

Azucena: For the son of the Count I reached: I brought him with me… The flames burnt now promptly.

Manrico: Le fiamme! oh ciel! Tu forse?

Manrico: The flames? Oh, heavens! You could?

Azucena: Ei distruggersi in pianto… Io mi sentiva il core dilaniato, infranto! Quand'ecco agli egri spirti, come in un sogno, apparve la vision ferale di spaventose larve! Gli sgherri ed il supplizio! La madre smorta in volto… Scalza, discinta! Il grido, il noto grido ascolto… Mi vendica! La mano convulsa tendo… stringo la vittima… nel foco la traggo, la sospingo… Cessa il fatal delirio… L'orrida scena fugge… La fiamma sol divampa, e la sua preda strugge! Pur volgo intorno il guardo e innanzi a me vegg'io dell'empio Conte il figlio…

Azucena: Distressed with tears, I felt my heart ripped to shreds, broken! While here of the suffering spirit, like in a dream, appeared with tragic vissage, a dreadful Lemur! (An obscure translation of Larva which I believe to be the right one in this case, being a manifestation of the vengeful and restless dead, which were also called masks, another reading for larva) The soldiers, the torment! The mother pale of face… Barefooted, unfastened! The scream, the well known call I hear… Avenge me! The feverish hand I tighten… I press the victim…. Into the fire I draw him, I push him… The irresistible frenzy stops… The horrid scene flees… The flames flare up, and their prey melts! I turn around my sigh and before me I see the cruel Count's son…

Manrico: Ah! come?

Manrico: Ah! How?

Azucena: Il figlio mio, Mio figlio avea bruciato!

Azucena: My son, I had burnt my son!

Manrico: Che dici! quale orror!

Manrico: What do you say! Such horror!

Azucena: Sul capo mio le chiome sento rizzarsi ancor!

Azucena: The hairs of my head I feel standing up still!

Azucena ricade, Manrico ammutolisce colpito d'orrore e di sorpresa. Momenti di silenzio.

Azucena relapses, Manrico is struck dumb with horror and surprise. A moment of silence.

Manrico: Non son tuo figlio? E chi son io, chi dunque?

Manrico: I am not your son? Who I am, who then?

Azucena: Tu sei mio figlio!

Azucena: You are my son!

Manrico: Eppur dicesti…

Manrico: But you said…

Azucena: Ah! Forse… Che vuoi! Quando al pensier s'affaccia il truce caso, lo spirto intenebrato pone stolte parole sul mio labbro… Madre, tenera madre non m'avesti ognora?

Azucena: Ah! Maybe… What do you want? When my thoughs face the cruel fate, the tenebrous spirit puts foolish worlds in my lips… Mother, tender mother haven't I always been?

Manrico: Potrei negarlo?

Manrico: Would I be able to deny it?

Azucena: A me, se vivi ancora, nol dei? Notturna, nei pugnati campi di Velilla, ove spento fama ti disse, a darti sepoltura non mossi? La fuggente aura vital non iscovrì, nel seno non t'arrestò materno affetto? E quante cure non spesi a risanar le tante ferite!

Azucena: To me, that you live now, don't owe? At night, in the battlefield of Velilla, where wasted your fame told you, to give you burial didn't I go? The fleeting breath of life didn't I discover, and motherly love didn't stop it in your breast? And how many cares didn't I spent to heal the many wounds!

Manrico: Che portai nel dì fatale… Ma tutte qui, nel petto! Io sol, fra mille già sbandati, al nemico volgendo ancor la faccia! Il rio De Luna me piombò col suo drappello; io caddi, però da forte io caddi!

Manrico: Those I had in that fatal day… But all here, in my chest! I alone, between thousands who fled, to the enemy faced! Cruel De Luna pounced on me with his platoon; I fell, but by bravery I fell!

Azucena: Ecco mercede ai giorni che l'infame nel singolar certame ebbe salvi da te! Qual t'acciecava strana pietà per esso?

Manrico: Here the payment for the day on which you forgave the vile in singular duel! Which odd mercy for him did blind you?

Manrico: Oh madre! Non saprei dirlo a me stesso!

Manrico: Oh, mother! I would not know what to say, even to myself!



—> http://youtu.be/4c4_8VbRkP8 <—

Manrico: Mal reggendo all'aspro assalto, ei già tocco il suolo avea: Balenava il colpo in alto che trafiggerlo dovea… Quando arresta un moto arcano, nel discender, questa mano… Le mie fibre acuto gelo fa repente abbrividir! Mentre un grido vien dal cielo, che mi dice: Non ferir!

Manrico: Badly bearing the harsh assault, he had already touch the ground: Flashed, raised, the strike that would pierce him… When a mysterious movement stops the descent of this hand… My every fibre to a sharp cold suddenly shivers! While a scream comes from heaven, telling me: Don't strike!

Azucena: Ma nell'alma dell'ingrato non parlò del cielo un detto! Oh! se ancor ti spinge il fato a pugnar col maledetto, compi, o figlio, qual d'un Dio, compi allora il cenno mio! Sino all'elsa questa lama vibra, immergi all'empio in cor.

Azucena: But in the ingrate's soul heaven didn't say a word! Oh! If now fate pushes to struggle with the accursed, carry on, o son, as that of a God, carry on my will! (It's actually sign instead of will, but that would make the translation read really akwardly) Until up to the hild this twisted blade you plunge into the impious' heart.

Manrico: Sì, lo giuro, questa lama scenderà dell'empio in cor.

Manrico: Yes, I swear, this blade will descend upon the heart of the wicked.

Odesi un prolungato suono di corno.

It is heard, at lenght, the sound of a horn.

Manrico: L'usato messo Ruiz invia! Forse…

Manrico: The usual messenger Ruiz sent! Maybe…

Azucena: Mi vendica!

Azucena: Avenge me!

Resta concentrata.

She remains, absorved.

Manrico, al Messo: Inoltra il piè. Guerresco evento, dimmi, seguìa?

Manrico, to the Messenger: Onward. What warlike events, tell me, followed you?

Messo: Risponda il foglio che reco a te.

Messenger: Will answer the sheet I bring to you.

Manrico: "In nostra possa è Castellor; ne dei tu, per cenno del prence, vigilar le difese. Ove ti è dato, affrettati a venir… Giunta la sera, tratta in inganno di tua morte al grido, nel vicin chiostro della croce il velo cingerà Leonora".

Manrico: "In our power is Castellor; And you must, by the Prince's sign, to watch the defense. When it is given to you, be quick to come… Arriving the night, about the deception of your death in scream, in the neighbouring cloister of the cross the veil will wear Leonora."

Con dolorosa esclamazione

With painful exclamation.

Manrico:Oh giusto cielo!

Manrico: Oh, just heaven!

Azucena, fra sč: Che fia!

Azucena, to herself: What goes?

Manrico, al Messo: Veloce scendi la balza, e d'un cavallo a me provvedi…

Manrico, to the messenger: Quick descend the crag, and of a horse provide me…

Messo: Corro…

Messenger: I run…

Azucena: Manrico!

Azucena: Manrico!

Manrico: Il tempo incalza… Vola, m'aspetta del colle a' piedi.

Manrico: The time is imminent… Fly, wait for me at the foot of the hill.

Il Messo parte frettolosamente.

The messenger departs hastily.

Azucena: E speri, e vuoi?

Azucena: And what do you hope to do, and want?

Manrico, fra sè: Perderla? Oh ambascia! Perder quell'angelo?

Manrico, to himself: To lose her? Oh, anguish! To lose such angel?

Azucena, fra sč: Č fuor di sé!

Azucena, to herself: He's out of himself! (i.e: He's out of his mind!)

Manrico, postosi l'elmo ed il mantello: Addio…

Manrico, putting the helm and the cloak: Farewell…

Azucena: No… ferma… odi…

Azucena: No… stop… hear…

Manrico: Mi lascia…

Manrico: Leave me…

Azucena: Ferma… Son io che parlo a te! Perigliarti ancor languente per cammin selvaggio ed ermo! Le ferite vuoi, demente, riaprir del petto infermo? No, soffrirlo non poss'io… Il tuo sangue è sangue mio! Ogni stilla che ne versi tu la spremi dal mio cor!

Azucena: Stop… It is me who speaks to you! To risk yourself now, languishing, through a journey brutal and solitary! The wound you want, madman, to reopen in the sick chest? No, to suffer such I can't… Your blood is my blood! Every drop that you spill you squeeze from my heart!

Manrico: Un momento può involarmi il mio ben, la mia speranza! No, che basti ad arrestarmi terra e ciel non han possanza… Ah! Mi sgombra, o madre, i passi… Guai per te s'io qui restassi! Tu vedresti ai piedi tuoi spento il figlio dal dolor!

Manrico: In a moment could vanish my wellbeing, my hope! No, enough to stop me earth and heaven have no power… Ah! Let me, o mother, pass… Woe to you if I here were to remain! You would see at your feet lifeless the son, of pain!

S'allontana, indarno trattenuto da Azucena.

He leaves, in vain Azucena's efforts to restrain him.



And thus, with Manrico being, once again, awesome and heroic, is that the first scene of the second act ends. Next time we meet the troubadour will rush to save his beloved from entering a convent and becoming a nun, only to find he's not the only one trying to do so. And the count gets some very nice moments, too.

The second scene is also much shorter than this one we just went through, so there will not be any epic delays this once. Again, I'm quite sorry for the delayed update. I'll try to split the really long or hard to translate scenes in the future into smaller and more manageable updates.

In any case, until the next time it is! Goodbye!

09.02.12: There is where this was left back in the Codex, so from here on I will be translating as we go and, thus, the updates will come slower than until now.

And many huggies for Kz3r0, whose help with some of the idioms used on this scene was the only reason this isn't even more akward than it already is. Supermegathankies!






@ Mrowak

For some this may count as "objective achieved", I guess. Opera is supposed to be overemphatic, I hear. But this was just wrong…
Opera isn't really about subtlety, nor storytelling, nor about emotion. Opera is all about passion, and about nothing else than passion. Pretentious people who never listened to opera will talk about how intellectual it is, or how refined it is, or how cultured it is, which only means they never actually sat down and watched or listened a whole opera the right way. Opera is raw, it is powerful, it is in your face and grander than life. Sometimes it is ridiculous, usually it spirals out of control, and more often than not what's left in its wake are a bunch of broken lives and a great many corpses. Opera characters aren't rational, boring individuals. They are all KINZO, and they all delight on it.

So what you say she did to you was actually a great feat. She made you feel exactly what the character was going through, and you reacted to that. There's nothing more :monocle: in Opera.

That aside, trying to judge Opera by the rules of other mediums will not make you very happy. In opera every motivation, every twist, every turn, and every single thingie related to the plot and the characters will be made obvious in advance. For example, when two characters misunderstand each other you will have both what the one meant and why the other misunderstood it clearly spelt to you. The focus is on how all those misunderstandings, passions, ambitions, agendas, etc, collide, in the beauty of the collision, on what the aftermath is, and on how unstoppable such an aftermath was once things got into motion and they became trapped in the flow of the collision.

(does it turn out Manrico was convicted for something? - it seems so)
As Patrick said, Manrico is more or less guilty of the medieval version of high treason.

Anyway, I am rooting for the Count, even though I know that by all laws of Narrativium Manrico will win (I am assuming we won't get to see the full duel though - only the effect in another act).
You got both right.

@ Kz3r0

The artistic depiction of witches traditionally follows folklore or the portrayal derived from witch-trials, other ways to depict them are definitely on the erotic side.
At least the erotic ones are kind of realistic. I mean, an agent of corruption needs people to, you know, open to them before the corrupting can begin, and that's far easier when you are young, hot, and pretty than when you are a crone with bad smell and an awful skin.

And nice girls do not become agents of darkness because they want to be ugly and smell, but because they want to have eternal youth, the hottest bodies ever, and a face to die for. Vanity has recruited more girls for the left hand than all the other sins put together.

But then artistic depictions usually can't be expected to know the difference between the witches that are actually followers of the left hand, the ones who are nice pagan girls worshipping the old gods and practicing kind magic, and the ones who are neither but just got falsely accused out of envy, revenge, or lust.

Like, uhm, how came we are talking about this, now?

Tell me more, tell me more… Like, does he have a car?

Let's opera! Il Trovatore.
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February 10th, 2012, 18:02
Originally Posted by Vii Zafira View Post
Manrico: Mal reggendo all'aspro assalto, ei già tocco il suolo avea: Balenava il colpo in alto che trafiggerlo dovea… Quando arresta un moto arcano, nel discender, questa mano… Le mie fibre acuto gelo fa repente abbrividir! Mentre un grido vien dal cielo, che mi dice: Non ferir!

Manrico: Badly bearing the harsh assault, he had already touch the ground: Flashed, raised, the strike that would pierce him… When a mysterious movement stops the descent of this hand… My every fibre to a sharp cold suddenly shivers! While a scream comes from heaven, telling me: Don't strike!
It seems that Manrico was faced with a Biowarian choice during the duel.

Originally Posted by Il Trovatore, Bioware "RPG"
Your mortal enemy, Conte de Luna, has been subdued and is lying helpless at your mercy.
1. Strike him down.
2. Show mercy
You attempt to strike down the Count. As your sword descends, a force from heaven (or better yet heavan) takes control of your body, rendering you unable to strike. You "choose" to show mercy.

Originally Posted by Vii Zafira
At least the erotic ones are kind of realistic. I mean, an agent of corruption needs people to, you know, open to them before the corrupting can begin, and that's far easier when you are young, hot, and pretty than when you are a crone with bad smell and an awful skin.
So, a crone needs to have a winning personality and superb cooking skills.

But then artistic depictions usually can't be expected to know the difference between the witches that are actually followers of the left hand, the ones who are nice pagan girls worshipping the old gods and practicing kind magic, and the ones who are neither but just got falsely accused out of envy, revenge, or lust.
Or out of convenience (see The Name of the Rose, for example).



Back to Il Trovatore:


There is an idea of a Patrick Bateman; some kind of abstraction. But there is no real me: only an entity, something illusory. And though I can hide my cold gaze, and you can shake my hand and feel flesh gripping yours and maybe you can even sense our lifestyles are probably comparable… I simply am not there.
Last edited by Patrick Bateman; February 10th, 2012 at 18:06. Reason: added the image
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February 11th, 2012, 23:38
Originally Posted by Vii Zafira View Post
So what you say she did to you was actually a great feat. She made you feel exactly what the character was going through, and you reacted to that. There's nothing more :monocle: in Opera.
I thought you would get it that way. Indeed, I knew full well that subtlety and opera don't go hand in hand and I shouldn't expect that. Still, that fragment didn't make me feel passionate about it all - but detached from the character I guess. Still, as I said, what followed was awesome.

To be perfectly honest, I liked this Act even more than the previous one. I felt it had more energy to it and what was said really matched the melody and the tone. Even though I have yet to meet gypsies like the ones depicted here, the overall vibrance of the scene was mervallous. Likewise when Azucena recollects what happened to her mother and her true son. Loving that.

I start to realise the full scope of the plan Azucena has concocted. She aims to murder the Count with Manrico who in reality is some relative of the count (son, cousin, brother), and who had been kidnapped by the witch. The perfidy… Now tell me that witches ain't wicked at all.

I also began to see the pattern. The whole genre relies on dramatic irony :stating the obvious:. That I realise more than the character does, is supposed to feel the impact of tragedy - which is bound to happen, right? At the end of it all I'd be surprised if it didn't come down to Azucena dancing on the ashes of the count and her own "son".
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February 12th, 2012, 20:44
Act the second; La Zingara. Scene the second.
In which the Count is awesome and very hot.



Believing Manrico to be dead Leonora goes delusional and tries to join a convent so that they may be joined in the afterlife, or something. However, this scene is not about her but about the Count, who shows such a fiery burning soul he would be right at home in a manly fighting anime.

Il balen del suo sorriso manages to be both tender and manly, and Zancanaro's voice is really sexy on it. The following two segments with the Count ranting while Ferrando and the minions trying to get him to hide, first, and to stop himself of revealing himself before time, then, is one of my personal favorites, and the way it is here sung makes it really endearing and cute. Say, adorkable! And while "Non può nemmeno un Dio, donna, rapirti a me!" is the kind of thingie few guys can get away with saying the Count manages to make it sound both cool and, like, totally sincere. And the ending segment is pretty cool, too, with Manrico, Di Luna, Leonora, and several other characters all singing at the same time and going through a variety of feelings and moods.

Anyway, this is an often overlooked scene but I really like it so I hope you guys enjoy it and stuffies.

Edit: Oops, I kind of forgot. The part about the altar of Imeneo is a reference to another opera, Handel's Imeneo, in which the female protagonist is forced to marry against her will with the titular jerk, the theme of the story being about how it is more important to be honorable and stuffies than to be happy.



—> http://youtu.be/VEc5G4-N4v0 <—

Atrio interno di un luogo di ritiro in vicinanza di Castellor. Alberi nel fondo. È notte. Il Conte, Ferrando ed alcuni seguaci inoltrandosi cautamente avviluppati nei loro mantelli.

Inner atrium of a place of retreat near Castellor. Trees in the back. It is night. The Count, Ferrando, and some minions carefully advance wrapped under their cloaks.

Conte: Tutto è deserto, né per l'aura ancora suona l'usato carme… In tempo io giungo!

Count: Everything's deserted, and through the air now doesn't sound the usual hymns… At time I arrive!

Ferrando: Ardita opra, o Signore, imprendi.

Ferrando: Daring task, O lord, undertake.

Conte: Ardita, e qual furente amore ed irritato orgoglio chiesero a me. Spento il rival, caduto ogni ostacol sembrava a' miei desiri; novello e più possente ella ne appresta… L'altare! Ah no, non fia d'altri, Leonora! Leonora è mia! Il balen del suo sorriso d'una stella vince il raggio! Il fulgor del suo bel viso novo infonde in me coraggio! Ah! L'amor, l'amore ond'ardo le favelli in mio favor! Sperda il sole d'un suo sguardo la tempesta del mio cor.

Count: Daring, it is like raging love and irritated pride require of me. Wasted the rival, fallen all obstacles that appeared to my desire; then and most powerful there gets ready… the altar! Ah no, don't pay the debts of others, Leonora! Leonora is mine! The flashing light of her smile of a star defeats the ray! The brightness of her beautiful face infuses me courage! Ah! The love, the love on which I burn speaks in my favour! Squander the sun of her eyes, tempest of my heart! (That last line was particularly hard. Is it even correctly translated?)

Odesi il rintocco de' sacri bronzi.

It is heard the tolling of sacred bronze.

Conte: Qual suono! Oh ciel…

Count: That sound! Oh heaven…

Ferrando: La squilla vicino il rito annunzia!

Ferrando: The blaring near the rite announces!

Count: Ah! Pria che giunga all'altar… si rapisca!

Count: Ah! Before arriving to the altar… herself kidnaped!

Ferrando: Ah, bada!

Ferrando: Ah, pay attention!

Conte: Taci! Non odo… andate… di quei faggi all'ombra celatevi…

Count: Quiet! I don't hear… Let's go… from those beeches in the shadows let's hide…

Ferrando e seguaci si allontanano.

Ferrando and the minions remove themselves.

Conte: Ah! Fra poco mia diverrà… Tutto m'investe un foco!

Count: Ah! In a little while mine she will become… Whole I am assailed by fire!

Ansioso, guardingo osserva dalla parte donde deve giungere Leonora, mentre Ferrando e i seguaci dicono sottovoce…

Anxious, cautiously watches from where must arrive Leonora, as Ferrando and the minions say softly…

Ferrando, seguaci: Ardire! Andiam… celiamoci fra l'ombre… nel mister! Ardire! Andiam! Silenzio! Si compia il suo voler.

Ferrando, minions: Daring! Let's go… Let's hide under the shadow… in mistery! Boldness! Let's go! Silence! Complete is becoming his will.

Conte: Per me, ora fatale, i tuoi momenti affretta: La gioia che m'aspetta gioia mortal non è! Invano un Dio rivale s'oppone all'amor mio: Non può nemmeno un Dio, donna, rapirti a me!

Conte: For me, fateful hour, your time hurry: The joy that awaits for me is not mortal joy! In vain a rival God opposes my love: Not even a God could, lady, take you away from me!

S'allontana a poco a poco e si nasconde col coro fra gli alberi.

He little by little removes and hides himself with the choir between the trees.



—> http://youtu.be/5382BUgoFO4 <—

Coro religiose: Ah! Se l'error t'ingombra, o figlia d'Eva, i rai, presso a morir, vedrai che un'ombra, un sogno fu, anzi del sogno un'ombra la speme di quaggiù! Vieni e t'asconda il velo ad ogni sguardo umano! Aura o pensier mondano qui vivo più non è. Al ciel ti volgi e il cielo si schiuderà per te.

Religious choir: Ah! If mistakes stiffle you, o daughter of Eve, your eye, near death, will see that a shadow, a dream they were, or rather of a dream the shade, the hopes of this world! Come and be hidden by the veil from all human eyes! Breath or thought mundane here alive no longer is. To heaven you turn and heaven will unlock itself for you.

Leonora con Ines e seguito muliebre.

Leonora with Ines and womanly entourage.

Leonora: Perchè piangete?

Leonora: Why to cry?

Donne: Ah! Dunque tu per sempre ne lasci!

Donne: Ah! Hence you for ever leave us!

Leonora: O dolci amiche, un riso, una speranza, un fior la terra non ha per me! Degg'io volgermi a quei che degli afflitti è solo sostegno e dopo i penitenti giorni può fra gli eletti
al mio perduto bene ricongiungermi un dì! Tergete i rai e guidatemi all'ara!

Leonora: O sweet friends, a laugh, a hope, a flower earth has not for me! I must turn to those who the afflicted and alone support, and after penitent days I might between the chosen with he whom I lost be a day reunited! Wipe clean the eyes and guide me to the altar!

Conte: No, giammai!

Count: No, never!

Donne: Il Conte!

Women: The count!

Leonora: Giusto ciel!

Leonora: Just heaven!

Conte: Per te non avvi che l'ara d'imeneo.

Count: For you there is but the alter of Imeneo.

Donne: Cotanto ardia!

Count: So much fire!

Leonora: Insano! E qui venisti?

Leonora: Madman! To what did you come?

Conte: A farti mia.

Count: To make you mine.

E sì dicendo scagliarsi verso Leonora, onde impadronirsi di lei, ma fra esso e la preda trovasi, qual fantasma sorto di sotterra, Manrico. Un grido universale irrompe.

As if saying yes throws herself forward Leonora, so that he may take possesion of her, but between him and his prey appears, as a ghost from the underworld, Manrico. A universal shout.

Leonora: E deggio… e posso crederlo? Ti veggo a me d'accanto! È questo un sogno, un'estasi, un sovrumano incanto! Non regge a tanto giubilo rapito, il cor sospeso! Sei tu dal ciel disceso, o in ciel son io cor te?

Leonora: It's him… and can I believe it? I see you to me nearby! Is this a dream, an ecstasy, a superhuman spell! Can't bear by so much joy be taken, the heart suspended! Have you from heaven descended, or in heaven am I with you?

Conte: Dunque gli estinti lasciano di morte il regno eterno; a danno mio rinunzia le prede sue l'inferno! Ma se non mai si fransero de' giorni tuoi gli stami, se vivi e viver brami, fuggi da lei, da me.

Count: Hence the extinguished leave of death the eternal kingdom; To my injury relinquishes hell its prey! But if never was cut of your days the stem, if you live and to live you covet, escape from here, from me.

Manrico: Né m'ebbe il ciel, né l'orrido varco infernal sentiero… Infami sgherri vibrano mortali colpi, è vero! Potenza irresistibile hanno de' fiumi l'onde! Ma gli empi un Dio confonde! Quel Dio soccorse a me.

Manrico: Nothing into this has heaven, nor the horrid crossing of infernal passages… Vile goon vibrated the mortal strike, it's true! Irresistible power have the waves of the river! (WTF did I just say? :/) But his flow a God confounds! That God rescued me.

Donne, a Leonora: Il cielo in cui fidasti pietade avea di te.

Women, to Leonora: The heaven in which you trusted piety had of you.

Ferrando e seguaci, al Conte: Tu col destin contrasti: Suo difensore egli è.

Ferrando and minions, to the count: You with fate clashed: His protector it is.

Ruiz seguito da una lunga tratta di armati, e detti…

Ruiz followed by a large number of men-at-arms, and says…

Ruiz: Urgel viva!

Ruiz: Long live Urgel!

Manrico: Miei prodi guerrieri!

Manrico: My brave warriors!

Ruiz: Vieni…

Ruiz: Come…

Manrico, a Leonora: Donna, mi segui.

Manrico, to Leonora: Lady, follow me.

Conte: E tu speri?

Conte: And you hope for this?

Leonora: Ah!

Leonora: Ah!

Manrico, al Conte: T'arresta…

Manrico, to the Count: Halt yourself…

Conte, unsheathing the sword: Involarmi costei! No!

Count, to the Count: To get away with her! No!

Ruiz & armati, accerchiando il Conte: Vaneggi!

Ruiz & men-at-arms, surrounding the Count: Delirious!

Ferrando, seguaci: Che tenti, Signor?

Ferrando, minions: What do you attempt, Lord?

Il Conte è disarmato da quei di Ruiz.

The count is disarmed by Ruiz.

Conte: Di ragione ogni lume perdei!

Count: Of reason all light I lose!

Leonora, fra sè: M'atterrisce…

Leonora, to herself: It terrifies me…

Conte: Ho le furie nel cor!

Count: I have wrath in my heart.

Ruiz & Armati, a Manrico: Vien: La sorte sorride per te.

Ruiz and the Men-at-arms, to Manrico: Come: Luck smiles for you.

Ferrando e seguaci, al Conte: Cedi; or ceder viltade non è.

Ferrando and minions, to the Count: Yield; Now yielding isn't cowardice.

Manrico tragge seco Leonora, il Conte è respinto; le donne rifuggono al cenobio.

Manrico draws Leonora along, the Count is rejected; the women escape into the monastery.



And thus ends the second act. Next time we meet with them we will see ancient evil isn't at all needed to have epic battles and sieges, as thingies quickly spiral out of control when the armies of Aragon and Urgel become entwined in this kind of crazy love triangle. You have dancing soldiers, singing crossbowmen, and heroic charges to look forward!

'til next time!






@ Patrick

It seems that Manrico was faced with a Biowarian choice during the duel.
I would personally love Biowarian choices if they were used to foreshadow and make statements instead of just to half-ass thingies and save development resources and time.

Actually, I would love an anti-bioware game actually written to play with the idea of fate. Bioware and others like to mention how the player character is free of the bounds of fate and similar stuffies, yet in the end all of that amounts to nothing as all choices are Biowarian ones. Instead of that we should make a game with actual choice and consequence were everyone tells the heroine how she can't win against fate but she, and the player, keep trying and trying, making hundreds of choices, all of which have real consequences, just to have destruction and despair sweep everything away at the last moment in a manner that fits perfectly the endgame scenario the consequences of the heroine's choices created.

Cue Ah, la maledizione! with thunder and orchestra.

Back to Il Trovatore:
Which production or recording is that from? It looks pretty high class.

Also, this guy…



… is bleeping hot.

And all other thingies I can say about him would be highly unladylike so I will leave it at just that.

@ Mrowak

The perfidy… Now tell me that witches ain't wicked at all.
If she really had a wicked plan, wouldn't her motivations be the most honorable of the lot?

I also began to see the pattern. The whole genre relies on dramatic irony :stating the obvious:. That I realise more than the character does, is supposed to feel the impact of tragedy - which is bound to happen, right? At the end of it all I'd be surprised if it didn't come down to Azucena dancing on the ashes of the count and her own "son".
That's pretty much the idea, yes. Having the place of an omniscient observer instead of experiencing the world through a single character may ruin the mystery and the surprise, but instead of that it gives us a very nice, and impartial, view at the situation, and a pretty intimate understanding of the choices and actions leading into this or that consequence.

That aside the focus being on their passions and motivations, in their ambitions and lusts, in their powerful and grand, but irrational, actions also makes the characters quite humane and relatable. I personally find passion to be a much more interesting theme than morality, philosophy, emotion, or ideas. We should have more stories focused on that kind of thingie instead of so much pretentious or moralistic stuffies.

Tell me more, tell me more… Like, does he have a car?

Let's opera! Il Trovatore.
Last edited by Vii Zafira; February 12th, 2012 at 21:14.
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February 12th, 2012, 23:13
Count: Daring, it is like[what] raging love and irritated pride require[d, the tense here is in the past] of me. Wasted the rival, fallen all obstacles that appeared to my desire [fallen every obstacle seemed/appeared at my desires];then and most powerful there gets ready… the altar! [a new and more powerful she prepares]Ah no, don't pay the debts of others,[fia here is intended as to be, not fio, price to pay, "Ah no, she won't be of others"] Leonora! Leonora is mine! The flashing light of her smile of a star defeats the ray! The brightness of her beautiful face infuses me courage! Ah! The love, the love on which I burn speaks in my favour! Squander [sperda here derives from disperdere not spendere, so it would be: Disperse the sun of her eyes the tempest of my heart!]

—————————————————————————————————————————-


Count: Ah! Pria che giunga all'altar… si rapisca!

Count: Ah! Before arriving to the altar… herself kidnapped![Before she arrives to the altar…she must be kidnapped or kidnap her or let kidnap her or she be kidnapped, more literally]
—————————————————————————————————————————-
Ferrando: Ah, bada!

Ferrando: Ah, pay attention![watch out would be better]
—————————————————————————————————————————-
Conte: Taci! Non odo… andate… di quei faggi all'ombra celatevi…

Count: Quiet! I don't hear… Let's go… from those beeches in the shadows let's hide…[Let's is contraption of let us if I remember correctly, obviously here the Count is ordering others to go and hide, he is not part of them.]
————————————————————————————————————



Conte: Per me, ora fatale, i tuoi momenti affretta: La gioia che m'aspetta gioia mortal non è! Invano un Dio rivale s'oppone all'amor mio: Non può nemmeno un Dio, donna, rapirti a me!

Conte: For me, fateful hour, your time hurry: The joy that awaits for me is not mortal joy! In vain a rival God opposes my love: Not even a God could, lady[woman, here he is speaking as a passionate male so donna is not used in the courtesy form], take you away from me!

——————————————————————————————————————————


Religious choir: Ah! If mistakes[error is better, used as way to imply sin and straying away from the right path] stiffle you, o daughter of Eve, your eye, near death, will see that a shadow, a dream they were, or rather of a dream the shade, the hopes of this world! Come and be hidden by the veil from all human eyes! Breath or thought mundane here alive no longer is. To heaven you turn and heaven will unlock itself for you.

—————————————————————————————————————————

Leonora: Perchè piangete?

Leonora: Why to cry?[a minor correction, she's referring to them, so Why do you cry? would be better]


—————————————————————————————————————————


Conte: Per te non avvi che l'ara d'imeneo.

Count: For you there is but the alter of Imeneo.

Imeneo in Roman tradition is the patron of marriages, I don't think that there are any other references.
————————————————————————————————————————
Donne: Cotanto ardia!

Count: So much fire!?
Women: Such he dared or So much he dared.

———————————————————————————————————————————

Manrico: Nothing into this has heaven, nor the horrid crossing of infernal passages… Vile goon[s, the plurals, the plurals] vibrated the mortal strike, it's true! Irresistible power have the waves of the river[s]! (WTF did I just say? :/)[probably is a figure of speec or he intends that they throw him in a river] But his flow a God confounds[the impious are confused, not the river]! That God rescued me.

—————————————————————————————————————————-

Ruiz seguito da una lunga tratta di armati, e detti…

Ruiz followed by a large number of men-at-arms, and says…
Here detti is referred to already mentioned characters I think.
—————————————————————————————————————————



Great job by the way, there are some very difficult passages here.
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February 13th, 2012, 00:12
Originally Posted by Vii Zafira View Post
Act the second; La Zingara. Scene the second.
Actually, this was pretty much… fantastic!!

In which the Count is awesome and very hot.
The count truly reaches new hights in this one. Uncompromising, proactive, yet dedicated, perhaps blindly devoted and unabashed.

And that Giorgio Zancanaro fellow, who plays him truly is a master of his craft. I just realised I prefer this character over Manrico just for his voice (not that is the only reason).

Both parts were great. Even Leonora didn't come across as all that soppy in here, though the Count and Manrico as enemies overshadow her easily.

@ Mrowak

If she really had a wicked plan, wouldn't her motivations be the most honorable of the lot?
Motivations maybe - but the means of achieving her goal are anything but honourable (at least if what I suspect is true - which you seem to confirm). I don't see how Manrico's and Leonora's motivations are dishonourable. Even the Count isn't that corrupt - merely ill-advised in his actions. It's hard to say who really holds

That aside the focus being on their passions and motivations, in their ambitions and lusts, in their powerful and grand, but irrational, actions also makes the characters quite humane and relatable. I personally find passion to be a much more interesting theme than morality, philosophy, emotion, or ideas. We should have more stories focused on that kind of thingie instead of so much pretentious or moralistic stuffies.
Thank you, now I see that.

In defense of all other themes though - they are only pretentious when ineptly realised through means and medium not fit for this sort of thing. As I see it now, I can't imagine Opera being the medium for that.

Actually, I would love an anti-bioware game actually written to play with the idea of fate. Bioware and others like to mention how the player character is free of the bounds of fate and similar stuffies, yet in the end all of that amounts to nothing as all choices are Biowarian ones. Instead of that we should make a game with actual choice and consequence were everyone tells the heroine how she can't win against fate but she, and the player, keep trying and trying, making hundreds of choices, all of which have real consequences, just to have destruction and despair sweep everything away at the last moment in a manner that fits perfectly the endgame scenario the consequences of the heroine's choices created.
I would actually love to play that. If it were possible to create such scenario where your choices met different consequences but all of them were bad, I think it would open a new class in our (not so) favourite pastime. Alas, this is not going to happen with the current politics studios have. Including even a sinle bad ending in this day and age causes heart palpitation in the Koticks of today.

Edit:
@Kz3r0

As always, resourceful and timely.

Edit2: What's with thouse half-assed : salute : icons. I will have to bring some here from the 'Dex.
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cat witch, il trovatore, incline, opera, stuffies, thingies
RPGWatch Forums » General Forums » Off-Topic » Let's Opera with (the incredibly classy) Vii Zafira! Il Trovatore.
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