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Default Islam, majority religion in Belgium in decades ?

April 12th, 2012, 18:24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbMnA…&feature=share

I don't know how reliable CBN is, but if they are, this is an interesting news broadcast. (Someone posted this on FB)

Apparently 25% of the population of Brussels is currently Muslim and more than 40% of the children in primary schools in Antwerp are Muslim too. The news broadcast is about a more extremist group of Muslims who want to pursue Shariah law in Belgium. Unfortunately, I am not really a proponent of Shariah law. So I don't think it would be good for something like this to happen, but on the other hand, I think that over decades most Muslims would become more and more moderate and they themselves might not want Shariah law instituted.

What do you think ?
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April 12th, 2012, 18:40
CBN is a fundamentalist Christian network (think Pat Robertson) Pladio. Draw your own conclusions…
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April 12th, 2012, 18:55
Sounds like one of those shaky straight line extrapolations, kinda like the one a few years back that by 2040 the most common last name in America would be Martinez. They've usually got wonky population growth numbers hiding in the weeds—the growth rate might be completely accurate at the time of the study, but it's fairly simple to determine that the growth rate is not sustainable. Poor immigrants come in and reproduce like rabbits, generating crazy population growth numbers. What gets lost is that those very same immigrants (and even moreso their children) slow down their reproduction as they incorporate into the new society and gain education and wealth.

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April 12th, 2012, 19:21
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
CBN is a fundamentalist Christian network (think Pat Robertson) Pladio. Draw your own conclusions…
Ah, ok. I guess it's good I added that mini-disclaimer

Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Sounds like one of those shaky straight line extrapolations, kinda like the one a few years back that by 2040 the most common last name in America would be Martinez. They've usually got wonky population growth numbers hiding in the weeds—the growth rate might be completely accurate at the time of the study, but it's fairly simple to determine that the growth rate is not sustainable. Poor immigrants come in and reproduce like rabbits, generating crazy population growth numbers. What gets lost is that those very same immigrants (and even moreso their children) slow down their reproduction as they incorporate into the new society and gain education and wealth.
Yeah, that's what I thought as well.
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April 12th, 2012, 19:40
dte nailed the basis for all Eurabia scaremongering.

I'd add that birth rates are going down in the immigrants' countries of origin as well.
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April 13th, 2012, 00:17
You definitely don't want Sharia law, not if you enjoy a beer or other alcoholic drink!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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April 13th, 2012, 01:12
Chimay will be banned?

Blasphemy!
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April 13th, 2012, 03:31
Blasphemy is punishable by death under Sharia law; so are a lot of things!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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April 13th, 2012, 03:50
it's not 2040 yet there, DTE ='.'=

I am curious tho, what the crime statistics in Belgium are, immigrant vs native Belgium-ite. Particularly rape, I have noticed that the Muslim immigrants tend to have a very high rate of rape when it comes to european women.
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April 13th, 2012, 11:10
Originally Posted by xSamhainx View Post
it's not 2040 yet there, DTE ='.'=

I am curious tho, what the crime statistics in Belgium are, immigrant vs native Belgium-ite. Particularly rape, I have noticed that the Muslim immigrants tend to have a very high rate of rape when it comes to european women.
I've heard it's North African first generation immigrants rather than muslims that has high rape rates.

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April 13th, 2012, 11:42
If you have eyes you can see what is happening without reports.
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April 13th, 2012, 13:26
"Don't trust any statistics you haven't forged yourself."

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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April 13th, 2012, 14:34
I have nothing against foreigners as long as they integrate into the society instead of forming their "own ghettos" like in Rosengarden in Sweden.
Riots and violence

Rosengård has been the place for several violent clashes between local youth and authorities in the last couple of years.[5] Fire crews have also been threatened and attacked. As a result, the Malmö Fire Department refused to respond to fire calls in Rosengård without police escort.[6]

In late April 2010 major riots were started again. Cars, wagons, kiosks, building sheds, recycling stations and bicycle sheds were set ablaze. Firefighters who attempted to put out the fires were subjected to stone throwing and fireworks, and thus had to receive police escort. Twenty riot-equipped police patrols were eventually also set in.
When the 15-year-old Samir Ardiwan Malmo was buried in southern Sweden last month, hundreds of people followed the coffin in a procession through the city center, in a public manifestation of grief at the violence.

Ardiwan was shot in the district Rosengård, an area just minutes away from downtown, which is considered the worst ghetto in Scandinavia. The police has not found neither the killers nor any motive, but the murder is one of two within a short time in the city. This has led to an intense debate in Sweden about violence and crime.

Increase in hate crimes against Jews

A few days after the funeral of Ardiwans, another much smaller procession marched through the streets of Malmö: the so-called Kippa-walk, organized by the Jewish community. After the Sabbath service on Saturday morning, the community members met and went through the city — with kippas on their heads and visible stars of David on their jackets.

The Jews in Malmö want to show that they cannot be intimidated, despite the increase in crimes that were committed out of hatred against Jews in the recent years.

The American Simon Wiesenthal Center sent a delegation to Malmö last year, after it became aware that Jewish families were leaving the town because of the increasing anti-Semitism. Founded by the Nazi-hunter Simon Wiesenthal, the Center has issued a travel warning, warning Jews against visiting the south of Sweden, telling them to exercise "extreme vigilance".

Anti-Semitism comes from Muslim immigrants

Representatives of the Jewish community in Malmö declare that hatred does not primarily come from right-wing extremists and neo-Nazis, but from immigrants from Muslim countries. It is a kind of anti-Semitism that followed them to Malmö - and this is why it is obviously difficult for Swedish politicians and journalists to express an opinion
http://www.welt.de/politik/article13…s-Problem.html
According to one thesis study made on the subject foreigners should not be concentrated into single area but dispersed. It helps them to integrate. This should be taken account when planning new housing areas. Each area should consist of both cheap and expensive housing.

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April 13th, 2012, 17:14
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
I have nothing against foreigners as long as they integrate into the society instead of forming their "own ghettos" like in Rosengarden in Sweden.
Rosengård is actually relatively calm.

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April 13th, 2012, 17:55
Wow, someone needs to give spellcheck a try. I couldn't even figure out what the author was attempting to type.

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April 13th, 2012, 20:37
Ahem, perhaps use "Google Translate" or so ?

What I often see is the argument of "Muslims being violent & breeding too fast" used by Neo-Nazis and in general by racists, either openly or informally.

Newspaper articles like these of course hurt very much "liberal" Muslims who perfectly integrate into society.
It's like what we call here "Sippenhaft" - a possible translation could be "group punishment", with the word "Sippe" actually meaning some kind of clan/huge family, often used as a deprecative term towards Gypsies (which are called Roma/Sinti here).
"Group punishment" means that *everyone* is being punished for something only a few people do - no mstter how violent they are or not.

Germany has a huge amount of Turkish people here. To whom - I assume - it must be especially hurting to see all of these newspaper articles of Turkish youngsters being mentioned there as the source of robbers & attackers.

The problem I see is that there are different kinds of cultures there. I once read (can't verify it, of course), that Turkish people often considr German court deciusions as being "too weak", because we here rather rely on elements/philosophies of social working and social integration than of mere punishment. Even very violent deeds have been decided upon relatively mildly - in hope that the attacker(s) will become more ocially integrated with all of these social courses and social work courses they are sentenced to participate in.

But unfortunately I have no real connection to Turkish culture or to the culture(s) of Muslims in general, so I actually can't say if it is true hat I perceive here.

But no matter how you see it - all of this "fanatic muslims" or "fanatic muslim terrorists" very much hurts ll of the liberal Muslims. This goes even so far they their voices are not heard at all !

Because - it is like with internet forums : is always a so-called "vocal minority".
In gaming forums, they are the hardcore gamers. They are vocal, they re loud, they make everyone else becoming silent.
And, of ourse, hey only want THEIR wishes to be fulfilled !

In real life, the equivalent of the "vocal minority" are fanatics. Of *any* kind.

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April 13th, 2012, 21:30
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Wow, someone needs to give spellcheck a try. I couldn't even figure out what the author was attempting to type.
It's an article that mentions that statistically Rosengård is a peaceful place if you look at things like reported crimes.

Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind. - John F Kennedy
An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind. - Mahatma Gandhi
The world is my country. To do good is my religion. My mind is my own church. This simple creed is all we need to enjoy peace on earth. - Thomas Paine
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April 14th, 2012, 10:50
Originally Posted by Ubereil View Post
Rosengård is actually relatively calm.

Übereil
There is an official line in both sweden and finland that all negative news related to immogrants are downplayed. Immigrant related news need to be crossreferenced if you want to know the whole story.

Relatively calm is an interesting term. I bet it is since police avoid the place anyways and perhaps the locals dont report all crimes that happen there. If things were calm then jews wouldnt be moving away from malmo.

There are countless eyewitness reports that put rosengard in negative shade.And the place is often in news too. No smoke without fire etc. I certainly wouldnt rent or buy a house from there.

The main problem i see with immigrants is their cultural background that is often influxed with racist ideals and unequal treatment of women.

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Last edited by zakhal; April 14th, 2012 at 11:11.
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April 14th, 2012, 20:38
Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
There is an official line in both sweden and finland that all negative news related to immogrants are downplayed. Immigrant related news need to be crossreferenced if you want to know the whole story.
We have the freest media in the world - there is no official line.

I also note how uncritically you quote articles claiming the area's a mess, but when someone tries to add nuances the picture you claim that until you've cross-referenced it you assume it's sugar coated. Sounds like the kind of attitude that could easily tilt ones view on imigration, don't you think?

Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
Relatively calm is an interesting term. I bet it is since police avoid the place anyways and perhaps the locals dont report all crimes that happen there. If things were calm then jews wouldnt be moving away from malmo.
Calm is a relative term. What they say is that if Rosengård was a Stockholm suburb it would be the second most crime free area in the city.

And without knowing I suspect the police don't avoid the area at all. Prehaps they did during the riots a few years ago, and it became "known" that they always do. The crime rate is on the decline, anyway.

And I don't know why Jews are moving away from Malmö. Or if they even are (that sounds like a similiar case).

Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
There are countless eyewitness reports that put rosengard in negative shade.And the place is often in news too.
They were a few years ago, nowadays it's calmed down.

Originally Posted by zakhal View Post
The main problem i see with immigrants is their cultural background that is often influxed with racist ideals and unequal treatment of women.
The problem with immigrants is poverty. Swedes who are as poor as immigrants tend to have about the same problems they do (well, their education is slightly better so they're slightly better off).

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April 19th, 2012, 16:13
I don't see how muslims are any worst than xians and jews .

we have sharia law here that only applies to muslims , not an issue for the rest.
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