Dungeon Lords MMXII - D.W. Bradley Returns

Originally Posted by CrazyIrish
Fuck you D.W. Bradley. Fuck you with a rusty piece of iron wrought fencing.

I'm going to download this, burn it to a dvd, take a dump on it, and throw it away.
But not before taking a snapshot and sending it to the big guy himself.

This reminds me of:

http://www.joe-ks.com/British_Complaint.htm

Except less British.

Originally Posted by Bargeral
I'm surprised that so many people blame DW. While I agree the product was incomplete, I've always assumed it was another case of the publisher pushing the product out the door before the development team was done. I'm excited to see what DL was meant to have been in the first place.

Had you been around during the pre-release time you would know better than to ask that question. DWB was way over his head trying to do this with a small team and doing so much himself. The code was supposedly a total hack job, and therefore any small change became a massive rewrite. The game was delayed and delayed and there were numerous lies and misdirections given …

Regardless of liking or not liking, there is a good reason this is noted as one of the worst game launches ever.

Originally Posted by Dhruin
So they said. Did I ever tell you Chris Avellone got the idea for The Nameless One from my life? True

He could have communicated when the game was released. txa1265 was a very visible member of the Dreamcatcher - I'm sure txa would agree the communication was terrible and Bradley said nothing..

all I am saying with regards to sales is it is pretty clear that DL sold WAY more than Etron.

As for everything else … Totally agree. I made a big stink at Dreamcatcher and elsewhere with an 'open letter' basically calling for them to delay the game further based on the demo and other reports. There was NO communication except from 'Chuk', who we later learned wasn't exactly truthful himself and was positioning for a new job since he knew HP would tank after the release of DL.

There is a reason I always qualify my statement with 'enjoyed it way more than I should have'. The game release, patching, and business practices around the CE were inexcusable and an affront.

Originally Posted by txa1265
all I am saying with regards to sales is it is pretty clear that DL sold WAY more than Etron.

Sorry, I wasn't saying you were wrong. I remember the 1M sale press release - I just don't believe it.

Originally Posted by Dhruin
Sorry, I wasn't saying you were wrong. I remember the 1M sale press release - I just don't believe it.

I remember discussing it when the release came out … We were all saying WTF? As someone noted, they must have counted every pack in and other promo giveaway as a sale … And then I still don't see a million.

Originally Posted by txa1265
I remember discussing it when the release came out … We were all saying WTF? As someone noted, they must have counted every pack in and other promo giveaway as a sale … And then I still don't see a million.

Maybe it was 1 million shipped and they refused returns from retailers?

As I said: cover mounts. A few of those and you have 500k - and all "sold through".

If the average profit per unit had been somewhere close to 5€ at least the add-on would certainly have been released no matter what, to cash-in on the 1M user base. Conclusion: The average profit per unit was much lower.

The 1M+ number must be true because JoWooD used it in several investor relations presentations. Lying there would have been too risky.

Originally Posted by jhwisner
Maybe it was 1 million shipped and they refused returns from retailers?

Then the retailers would have refused to order the next JoWooD/DC games.

Originally Posted by Gorath
As I said: cover mounts. A few of those and you have 500k - and all "sold through".

If the average profit per unit had been somewhere close to 5€ at least the add-on would certainly have been released no matter what, to cash-in on the 1M user base. Conclusion: The average profit per unit was much lower.

The 1M+ number must be true because JoWooD used it in several investor relations presentations. Lying there would have been too risky.

Agree with that. IIRC, DL has been cover mount for all three german pc games magazines, each of them selling between 150.000 and 250.000 back then. That would make around 500.000 copies. Has also been a longtime seller in the german budget market for quite some years.

I will always remember DL being the game where the german patches were released before the english version. And IIRC, dtp also released many contents of the SE in a seperate patch.

It's definitely no game the world has to see again in a remastered version. But Nordic is working hard to make money out of their Jowood/Dreamcatcher buyout. They already announced re-releases of the whol gothic saga. I'm waiting for re-releases of Aquanox.

D. W. Bradley should go KickStarter to make a real Wizardry-like game and shouldn't care about the publishers.
They want to sell three times the same game, what a scandal.
(Btw Dungeon Lords is my favourite ARPG, I have played a lot of times, and I'd like to play a new game (Orb and Oracle) do not some-graphics-updated samegame)

Dungeon Lords didn't catch my interest, but after Wizards & Warriors, I don't have any faith in his games. That was supposed to be the spiritual successor to Wizardry 7, but it was a terrible bug filled disaster. I had very high hopes for that game and they were dashed.

Its been a LONG time since I played it, so I don't know of there are any circumstances that caused the game to be released early. Some of the things though were just terrible design decisions. I still remember the towns (which were video files of some sort).

Originally Posted by Dhruin
The story he talked so grandly about is the most cliched "evil wizard" trash - come on Chamr, you're a fan - are you going to defend the story?

No, but I've seen/played worse.

Fact is, I'm not much of a story guy in my RPG's. Almost invariably, they're second to third rate fantasy fiction written in a rather adolescent style. If decent, story in an RPG can add a bit to the immersion factor. More often than not, the story is nothing more than a prop to the game-play, sadly, that has barely more imagination or skill to it than leading the player from one quest to the next. Worse case, it's so bad and intrusive as to ruin the game all together.

Don't get me wrong, I think games have the capacity for amazing story telling. I just don't think the “writers” in the game development community are up to the task.

Originally Posted by txa1265
Had you been around during the pre-release time you would know better than to ask that question. DWB was way over his head trying to do this with a small team and doing so much himself. The code was supposedly a total hack job, and therefore any small change became a massive rewrite. The game was delayed and delayed and there were numerous lies and misdirections given …

Regardless of liking or not liking, there is a good reason this is noted as one of the worst game launches ever.

He promised the sky. Remember the story about the thief allay that might betray you due to its advanced AI logic? Riiiiiight…

D. W. Bradley should go KickStarter to make a real Wizardry-like game and shouldn't care about the publishers.

This is exactly the reason we had the kickstarter debate.

Don't trust this guy with your money

Originally Posted by chamr
No, but I've seen/played worse.
I think games have the capacity for amazing story telling. I just don't think the “writers” in the game development community are up to the task.

Agree with this statement 100%. Lots of great story potential in cRPGs… but that potential has yet to be realized. I play RPGs for world immersion/exploration, character building, and combat. So long as the story doesn't impede or detract from my progress in those areas, I'm fine with it.

Originally Posted by Falchor
Agree with this statement 100%. Lots of great story potential in cRPGs… but that potential has yet to be realized. I play RPGs for world immersion/exploration, character building, and combat. So long as the story doesn't impede or detract from my progress in those areas, I'm fine with it.

Maybe it's the exception that proves the rule, but I thought the overall story in Planescape: Torment was quite good. It subverted a lot of conventional western RPG tropes through its story which did not interfere with gameplay but actually defined and enhanced many aspects of it.

Wow. I just saw a blurb for this on green man gaming.

I … I just have no idea how to react. At all.

For the record, I was a day-one purchaser of the original. I had a feeling the game might be second-rate, but "B" RPGs can still be a hell of a lot of fun. I enjoyed the beginning of Dungeon Lords a lot, but of course it went downhill, fast. To call DL "unfinished" is an insult to things that are unfinished. Most of the game simply did not exist.

Some time later, I heard about paying full price again to get a working version? My mind blocked it out. My eyes refused to see it.

Now there's another re-release available for $15? What?

Honestly, I'm completely … there's no word for it. I'm not angry, I don't think it's funny, I'm certainly not excited, I can't even describe myself as legitimately confused. I simply cannot comprehend what this means. It makes no sense. It's literally nonsense.

Wow … I had forgotten this one, and it has a release date of NEXT TUESDAY?!? Check it out - http://www.greenmangaming.com/s/us/e…n-lords-mmxii/

Needless to say I MUST buy this … sad, I know …

Really? Why?

Originally Posted by Dhruin
Really? Why?

It is a psychological defect … I thought we had long since established that with me and Dungeon Lords!