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Default Dragon Age 2 - David Gaider Interview @ Geek and Sundry

April 30th, 2012, 16:36
Originally Posted by SveNitoR View Post
Why not criticize Bioware for bad marketing then, or this woman for her work? Do you know the meaning of constructive criticism?

This place feels more like a forum to spew hatred lately, instead of discussing RPGs.
I hear what you're saying. But this goes too deep. Felicia Day has literally been designed into the game - with her real life looks 'n all- for nakedly exploitative reasons. This … 'cheapness' goes from publisher to studio head to lead designer … all the way down. She's actually the least 'involved'!

As to spewing hate - to paraphrase Laidlaw - he'd rather have 'hate' than 'silence'. Hate at least means people are still passionate. However good the Witcher 2 or TES:V may be, their combat is 90% based on reflexes, making them action games with RPG choices. However good Jeff Vogel (et al) is, his games need a bit more … spice and scale. Yes (mea maxima culpa) his games also need some 3D or cinematics or VA. Until recently BioWare was the only developer that came the closest in terms of fidelity to RPG conventions. The passion of the 'haters' is a (misguided) attempt to stop or slow their march into stale, rehashed, mainstream and away from RPG mechanics.
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April 30th, 2012, 16:39
Originally Posted by SveNitoR View Post
Why not criticize Bioware for bad marketing then, or this woman for her work? Do you know the meaning of constructive criticism?

This place feels more like a forum to spew hatred lately, instead of discussing RPGs.
Internet drama, hyperbole and general rudeness is not analogous to hatred. Labelling criticism of BW/DA2(be it legitimate or unfair - Day included as she was a part of DA2) hatred does a disservice to people who have actually been victims of hatred.

Why not take your own advice, and counter the irrational dislike of DA2 by discussing it's various RPG merits?
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April 30th, 2012, 18:59
I'm more surprised anyone's still willing to talk about DA2 in an official capacity. I thought they (BioEA) decided it was a mistake, scratched all further expansions, and are now focusing on DA3?

F. Day holds a sense of exotic hotness for me, but I just don't get why Sci Fi/Syfy or whatever the hell that channel calls itself, along with BioWare, have seemingly incorporated her into every facet of their operations. Is she that talented?
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April 30th, 2012, 19:12
Originally Posted by Mr Smiley View Post
You may of course discuss a person's appearance. But unless it's in the context of a beauty contest, the fact that you do will make people like me think less of you.

KapitanUnterhose made a comment about the interviewer, not about some game character. And I know nothing about MoTA or Talis; Dragon Age II was so bad that I haven't bothered taking in any information about any DLC.
I got the DLC through my cousin for free (yes, she works for the evil empire.) I wouldn't have paid for them myself though as I felt pretty dissappointed/underwhelmed by the original base game. Some of the DLC is actually rather good and more enjoyable/interesting than the base game itself but they don't really solve the late-game problems or the other issues a lot of people have with the game.

The first major post-launch DLC makes the otherwise ill-explained apparent stupidity of every major character in the city make somewhat more sense (that is not to say it is not hinted at otherwise, but it is done so very unconvincingly and without real pay-off without it.) The second major DLC is a fun romp with some interesting story telling and makes a good fleshed out side-adventure. They both also manage to avoid re-using the same 5 maps - something which was done somewhat shamelessly in the core game. Do I consider the core game + each DLC to be good value for money at the full price for each? Absolutely not, but all together they do offer acceptable value perhaps at a future reduced price.

If they release a compilation and it comes down to 30 USD or so, I'd say it would be worth playing for most people if you go into it understanding the flaws. I've complained about Geralt being captain oblivious at many points in the Witcher 2 but Hawke, by contrast, makes him look like Sherlock Holmes at times. Like the Witcher 2, you have to keep in mind that you're not playing a pen and paper RPG style character (one whose motivations and personality is more or less YOUR creation) but instead playing one of several possible Hawkes.

Unlike the Witcher 2, Hawke is not as well fleshed out and the optional list of behaviors are not necessarily as believable nor is the narrative as tightly plotted or divergent. Still, it can make for a fun choose-your-own-adventure style of RPG if you don't go in expecting more and are willing to push past plot holes and flawed characterizations among other things. There are certainly better games - in Bioware's own repitoire - but there are also far worse.

It's not entirely unenjoyable but I do completely understand feeling disappointment in it or regretting paying full 0-day price for it. A 30 dollar (or less) compilation edition though- I would consider that a worthwhile investment. It's not as good as some of the early reviews claimed by any stretch but I don't think it's as worthless as some of the strongest negative reactions would suggest either. It's somewhere in-between and is built from a mix of great and god-awful things; the good can be enjoyed despite the bad but it certainly is hard to overlook the bad if you go in expecting it to live up to the pre-launch press.
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April 30th, 2012, 19:55
Originally Posted by jhwisner View Post
If they release a compilation and it comes down to 30 USD or so, I'd say it would be worth playing for most people if you go into it understanding the flaws.
Like ME2, there will be no DA2 Ultimate edition. Mark Darrah tweeted that there was 'no interest' in it from retailers. Not sure what the official reason was for no ME2 UE.

DA2 is already below 30 USD, and imho you'd have to have a pretty empty games library to pick this as the best way to spend 30 hours of your free time.
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April 30th, 2012, 20:13
Originally Posted by NFLed View Post
I'm surprised at the level of hatred in this web page for Bioware — and only Bioware — games.
Hey now, I've said plenty bad things about Bethesda, and I'm still not sure if I entirely trust InXile. Also I'm not sure If I agree with Vince from Irontower about how long it takes make a game "good", especially when he tirelessly defends every minor design decision on his forums. If the game is perfect and good to go right now, why will it take till 2013 to make it a good game?

Anyways, I've already had my say on Dragon Age. I just personally don't care for Gaider after a comment he made on the forums shortly after details about DA2 hit. Paraphrasing he said something like "Oh you guys do this every time. You just bash the game over irrelevant changes, and then just buy the game up and everybody loves it when it comes out." Just struck me as pretty arrogant, especially in the aftermath of how the game turned out, and how fans ended up thinking about the game. Those "irrelevant changes" ended up being pretty important to some people. But yes, the personal lives, and appearances of people don't really matter for me. However things they say as game designers, about game design is open for discussion as far as I'm concerned.
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April 30th, 2012, 20:44
Originally Posted by MasterKromm View Post
Internet drama, hyperbole and general rudeness is not analogous to hatred. Labelling criticism of BW/DA2(be it legitimate or unfair - Day included as she was a part of DA2) hatred does a disservice to people who have actually been victims of hatred.

Why not take your own advice, and counter the irrational dislike of DA2 by discussing it's various RPG merits?
Fair enough (on both accounts). I guess I find the dicussions here often end up in boring, repetitive arguments about "fanbois" vs "haters", though I obviously did the same mistake. Too much black and white thinking, or at least it seems that way to me.

Anyway, I will go back to lurking again. Don't want to end up like this:
http://xkcd.com/386/
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April 30th, 2012, 23:09
I found the interview with David Gaider to be rather good, actually. Gaider explains how the writing process works, that it is a team effort, and how the different teams need to make compromises when working together to build or create a game.

As for the commens about Leliana please remember what Oghren said about the mountain and the holy ashes and don't rogues have the Feign Death ability….
Gaider - and the DA team - did promise us an explanation for why Leliana was not dead. And there is one, he said so on the forums a while back; it is not they're willing to give at the moment, though.

As for what people call Anders's retcon, I see this more of a character development arc (but maybe that's just the teacher in me trying to analyse and interpret the story arc for Anders ). If you look beneath Anders's humour in DA: Awakening, you'll see (or feel) the pain he feels for some reason, and that he really is using jokes as a means to cover his pain and sorrow. As soon as Anders merges with Justice, there is a slight variation in his behaviour, and at one point in DA2, Anders seem totally gone, and Justice has taken over. Why he does what he does is up for debate, still, in the DA2 forums. And it must have led to many discussions in the DA2 team at Bioware if they could do this? i.e. set the stage for what Anders did at the end of the DA2…

And personally, I don't see what all the fuzz is about how Felicia Day looks? Do we talk about how goodlooking Casey Hudson is. No, we don't. At least it isn't mentioned in the gaming press or in the gaming industry. Why then do we talk about Felicia Day and her looks?

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May 1st, 2012, 00:32
I don't recall defending Bioware there. I was more commenting on the heterosexual male need to diminish females every opportunity they get, particularly on the internet where we all enjoy some pseudo-anonymity. Felicia Day's appearance is irrelevant to the content of the video, as far as I can tell, and her being a woman doesn't mean that she's trying to sell anything with her appearance. If her appearance was relevant to the video, I'm sure she'd have used a better camera or better lighting. We get it, KapitanUnterhosen hates Bioware and probably hates women. The former is relevant while the latter is not. That's all.
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May 1st, 2012, 00:48
Originally Posted by Crilloan View Post
It have turned rather silly and somewhat sad with all the bashing.

Im not thrilled by the direction Bioware is going but for some it seems like a personal grudge.

Maybe some oldtimers feel betrayed by BW and that explains the constant venom?
There is less civil discussion now.

Im out.

It's real simple: They fucked up the sequel, as companies often do w/ their games/movies/next cd.

We collectively for the most part liked Dragon Age and Bioware used to be our hero, and i personally can say that I count it in my top games of 21st century. They fucked up the sequel, in a lot of different ways. It was a missed opportunity for greatness, it sucked, we're bitter. They flaunted the awesome button, that made a lot of people mo' bitter. They cut down their fans that didnt like it, bit the hand that feeds, made us even more bitter. And bitier

Now we gripe about it, if you dont like it then youre welcome to kindly gtfo
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May 1st, 2012, 00:51
I remember the David Gaider (and Bioware) who worked on and released the Ascension mod, which was basically free fan service giving a nice story twist to the end of Throne of Bhaal and much tougher battles.

Its rather sad that such a thing is unimaginable now, just a decade later. Not only because Gaider is now pigeonholed as "the romance guy", but also because extra free content doesn't happen much outside CDProjekt, and is the antithesis of what EA and Bioware have become.
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May 1st, 2012, 01:17
That's not entirely true. The ME3 'extended cut' DLC is going to be free.
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May 1st, 2012, 02:18
True, but they are producing the ME3 DLC as a response to a shitstorm which is likely to affect future sales, the context is pretty different.
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May 1st, 2012, 03:55
Originally Posted by NFLed View Post
I'm surprised at the level of hatred in this web page for Bioware — and only Bioware — games. When you enjoy a niche it is counter-productive to haterize … oh forget it no-one who hates is going to care what I say anyway.

Can't people allow fanboyz like me to enjoy what we enjoy without pillorying it with ridiculous hatred?

Arkadia7, good post. Thank you for helping me skip what is apparently a boring interview. (I am not being sarcastic, I feel that your post is right on point unlike the other ones which are mostly just haterade.) I'm out, this is not fun to me.
Have you considered that maybe the reason for this hatred is because Bioware is the only developer that's been popping out games most often lately and it just happened to be quality was rather shit? Like it or not, Bioware has been center of attention for quite a while.

Also, I think Mark of the Assassin was such a cheap was to make money. From what I remember Felicia Day was more talked about topic than "Talis" herself.

Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
BioWare has had romance options since BG2 though. BG1 is pretty much the only game without it.
Yes, but I felt romance in BG2 romance was much more subtle than later games. It goes through quite a lot of dialogues, building some type friendship before becoming full "I LOVE YOU XOXO" type — at least with Anomen that was. He talks about his worries and anguish over his family (mainly about his sister and dad) before going into actual romance talk. Most shockingly horrible romance of all was Casavir from NWN2 (yes it not from Bioware, I know).

Can't say I hate Bioware games. I still like somethings they are doing. It's just, like others, I'm utterly disappointed in their latest products for reasons pointed out for countless times.

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BG2: Eowyn & Anomen
IWD: Orhlanna & Korin
ME: Shepard & Garrus
Last edited by purpleblob; May 1st, 2012 at 04:23.
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May 1st, 2012, 11:54
Originally Posted by aries100 View Post
And personally, I don't see what all the fuzz is about how Felicia Day looks? Do we talk about how goodlooking Casey Hudson is. No, we don't. At least it isn't mentioned in the gaming press or in the gaming industry. Why then do we talk about Felicia Day and her looks?
This is why Day is controversial (her looks is a strawman):

"Felicia Day is the owner of a URL you wouldn’t necessarily expect to find in her domain registrar or web hosting account. “I’ve had VaginalFantasy.com for years,” the traditional television and new media actor/creator/writer told me over email.

That book-review-website-turned-video-form is called Vaginal Fantasy Hangout and has found a home at VaginalFantasy.com. As its creator explains, it’s more or less “a monthly discussion group where we discuss a romance-heavy genre book, and basically have as much fun as we can!” The “we” in that last quote includes Day and her three Vaginal Fantasy Hangout co-hosts, Veronica Belmont of Tekzilla and the internet, Kiala Kazebee of Nerdist, and Bonnie Burton of Star Wars."


Just to be clear, I have nothing against this kind of content. I do, otoh, have a lot against BioWare milking this sort of thing commercially and cynically to sell a sub-standard product to a hormone-heavy demographic. And to use "Vaginal Fantasies" (and fake homophobe controversies) as a substitute for rich stories, multi-dimensional characters, and RPG tactical combat/gameplay.
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May 1st, 2012, 13:08
Originally Posted by Gaxkang View Post
This is why Day is controversial (her looks is a strawman):
Oh, please. Very few people would even know about that. It didn't make her controversial (she isn't) and BioWare didn't cash in on it, whatever their other sins.

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May 1st, 2012, 14:20
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
Oh, please. Very few people would even know about that. It didn't make her controversial (she isn't) and BioWare didn't cash in on it, whatever their other sins.
Maybe people didn't know about that in particular, but to deny that her status as nerd goddess (and associated supposed good looks) played a major part in Day's inclusion in DA2 seems like trying to argue that Miranda's ass shots in ME2 &3 cinematics were just innocent freak camera angles (perhaps caused by those infamous console memory limitations?).
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