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Default The Totally NEW Team Corwin Thread

August 27th, 2012, 20:55
A good thing about designating all our toons to one of the groups we define, or keep some as free agents then we know who we can play with when we login during a week and only see a few others online as well.

The main thing is to have fun and play and one shouldn't have to feel guilty for playing because you play and a possible other toon is left behind. If you know the level range of the group you're in then you just have to ensure you stay within the range and all is fine.

Right now it's very hard to understand because we don't know which toons are active, which are mules and which are free agents.

If we have a thread showing all the teams and all the toons then we can easily check who belongs to each group. Dte or Corwin can maintain the lists.

We could e. g. type like:

Team Jm: Level 21-25. Sherrille Bard (23), Sherina Artificer (23), Aerii Sorc (23), RolfPeter Cleric (22) and so on.

Free agents: nnn Rogue (12)
Mules: yyy Fighter (3)

And so on.

We can all send forum PM's to Dte / Corwin to update our own toons. If a new group is formed we create a name and post it in the thread. This way we can send in which of our toons who want to join that group. If you want to swap a group or move to the free agent / mule you can send a PM about that too.

I think that would help a lot. Then we have in one location the status of all the toons we have. This is particularly important regarding the free agents and mules. We don't know which toons of others who aren't part of playing groups. E. g. we then don't have to wait for a toon we think is active, but is not played regularly anymore.

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August 27th, 2012, 21:16
Regarding staying within groups then you know the level range defined for that group at the moment and if you cap it then you hold until the level range is increased. If you want to level faster then you detach yourself from the group and move the toon to another group instead.

So I don't see a problem with some of us helping left behind toons within a group to catch up. As long as one are willing to hold levels it shouldn't affect the others. Remember that doing a quest for the first time on elite gives +80% XP plus bravery bonus so repeaters should expect about half XP as the one doing it for the first time. I see the problem with the ones helping gaining XP too, but the ones left behind will at least close the gap.

The other alternative is that the left behind will have to pug or repeat lower level quests with hirelings to catch up. That's not always possible, especially for those who don't pug.

My viewpoint is that it's good that the left behind toon gains XP to catch up. The gap will become less even though it might not close completely from on play session. If one is too afraid to help the ones left behind then we might risk seeing the ones left behind dropping out of the group because they can't catch up anymore. That means they have to wait for the next lower level group to catch up to the left behind.

I think we can let the left behind toon decide whether he/she wants help from higher level guildies or not. If the left behind wants to play then I don't say no to helping. If you're left behind by a few ranks then that's actually nothing and can be closed by a few hours of playing. If you fall a full level behind then we will notice it more because more and more others will have to hold levels. Still, that's a price we have to pay when being a member in a group. It's not like we lose the XP by holding a level.

The only time you should NOT hold a level is when you're about to hit level 20. The reason is that the epic XP will not accumulate until after you select your epic destiny. You can't select the destiny before you're 20. So if you're e. g. 4 ranks into level 19, but holding 19 then you should get 19 first.

At all other levels you only miss on enhancements, abilities, skills and feats by holding levels. That's something we can live with because we're doings quests within the bravery bonus range of the toon left behind. So we should be able to beat those quests on elite.

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August 27th, 2012, 22:42
Hm, as much as I can understand this proposal - it's purely logical to me - I have nevertheless the impression as if this proposal has the goal of the game (I might be wrong, but this is just how it appears to me) of levelling up.

Me, personally, I don't play DDO for levelling up. This isn't my goal in playing.
My goal is to experience the environments and the story. This is what constitutes the most fun of the game for me.
And playing the same story with a different class is to me as if I was looking at the same story from a different angle/standpoint.

I really don't have anything against to be assiciated to a group, but I think that I'm levelling not as fast as most of you do. I would have to reassign my toons much more often - but if it is planned to be so, then be it so. I would have to take care of the reassigning process myself then, no ? Or have I misunderstood it ?

I really like the group play, because it has become great fun for me (I wouldn't have thought so a year ago !), and I like to offer my help, but I fear that my own playing style is perhaps a bit different. I would rather be some kind of an "free agent" or so, I don't know.

I really don't have anything to be assigned to a group, but since I'm levelling up much slower, usually, I have to be reassigned much more often, I fear.

And I like to switch through my chars depending on what kind of help from my side is needed as well - if the level differences aren't too great. So far I can offer help with my both level 7 Artificer or my Cleric, depending on the quest - for example.

The only character which is a bit statis right now is my Ranger.

This is how I see things right now. Please correct me if I have misunderstood something.

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August 27th, 2012, 23:10
If I may interject, just knowing the list of characters everyone has and their levels and classes, will help to put together plans for dungeon runs for the next week. Just a nice convenience to save time. It would be great if the game automatically did this for each guild. Surprised it doesn't actually.
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August 27th, 2012, 23:55
We do have a list of all our toons and their levels in the DDO thread in the MMO forum. However, neither Dte, nor I have mod powers in that forum so we cannot do any updates on other peoples postings about their toons.

I haven't run Delera's with my Druid, but I have done Necro. Trev has done neither and won't be available this weekend. I don't think he's available the weekend of the 14th either (work). It's likely I will be away that same weekend (14th) as I have a ministers conference I would like to attend. Playing catch-up is not always easy or even possible.

I think this weekend with Trev away and already behind we should run our 18's, or our 20+'s or both. I want to get Avi to 20 for a TR, but I plan to run my AA through to 25. Both are still at 18.

Peter, you actually only have 1 toon, with 4 different names!! You REALLY need to spread yourself out a little. Try a Bard for example. As Alrik has intimated, half the fun of the game is trying quests with different char types who need a different playstyle to be successful. YOU are the loser in this since you don't even realise what you are missing out on.

I think the concept of several 'groups' would quickly become confusing and unwieldy, but that is only my opinion. I'm a great believer in the KISS system!!

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August 28th, 2012, 00:01
It does list level and type of all guild members for you. I think the plan is taking on a life of it's own. Let's just pick one for Friday……..the rest are extra play…..Keep all the Friday toons at the same level. If we start seeing Tr's falling behind we can do a swapmeet then.

I barely have time to read the forums most weeks. I know I won't keep lists up to date. Those of us who get too far ahead with that one Friday toon should just agree to hold til we catch up or at that point bring in another toon so you are not loosing xp holding levels.

Lets enjoy the game and each other. Something we have not been doing nearly enough lately. We seem to have lost the TEAM part of our sessions. We're letting the mechanics and stats of the game dictate how we act and it's time to get back to helping each other and if I loose an elite streak who cares. It doesn't take that long to get it back. We have been playing together for years………..Time to remember why we stayed a group all this time. And yes I had a bad weekend so I will shut up now.

Bart and Corwin should just admit that when it gets down to it, I will have the final say.
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August 28th, 2012, 00:14
Ah nevermind my ignorance. Sounds like you've got the tools needed to put together partying plans.
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August 28th, 2012, 00:23
So when do you plan to join us Thrasher? We've already reserved you a place on Team Dte!!

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August 28th, 2012, 00:52
I have tried other D&D classes and don't like rogues, bards, wizards etc. I can play a fighter, but being able to self heal with a paladin is preferable.

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August 28th, 2012, 01:02
Most of us are in a slightly different position that Alrik. For him the game is new so all quests are interesting and fun. For e. g. me I've played those quests 10+ times so they are just something to play through to get the XP to play new stuff that comes out. We TR because we reach level 20 and want to get the bonuses from TR'ing.

I don't play just to get XP, but getting levels with more power is part of the fun. If you're used to killing devils in the Shavarath then you feel a bit squishy having to deal with kobolds in Waterworks.

Our purpose of playing is not just to get the XP, but to get interesting loot, trying new abilities when you get enhancements and levels. It's fun seeing you toon becoming more powerful than it was. Getting a rare item from a quest chest is fun. Therefore we farm certain quests to get the rare item sets like the ones in Red Fens.

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August 28th, 2012, 01:18
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
If I may interject, just knowing the list of characters everyone has and their levels and classes, will help to put together plans for dungeon runs for the next week. Just a nice convenience to save time. It would be great if the game automatically did this for each guild. Surprised it doesn't actually.
There's a sortable table of all the toons in the guild available in-game. It can be grouped by level, by class, by name, by location, or by last log-on. The one thing it doesn't show is the owner of each toon (probably for privacy concerns), which actually comes into play with what we're up to these days. Each of us have multiple toons we run. We've made it even more complicated by using mules that show up on the toon list but aren't intended to actually play (since character slots are cheaper to purchase than bank slots, it's common to make a character whose sole purpose is to hold items for a gamer's other toons).

I harassed people into posting into this thread where each of us lists our toons. That helps with ownership identification.

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August 28th, 2012, 01:46
Peter, just because you've played different D&D chars in other games doesn't mean they are the same in DDO. I discovered quite quickly that a Sorc in NWN played VASTLY different from a Sorc in DDO, as does a Bard. In fact, probably most do. While I prefer to play casters, I still enjoy trying other classes and styles of playing. I didn't always enjoy my Bard, but playing it was an experience I'm glad I had. I've tried most of the possible builds as have most of our regulars and at the very least, playing them helps me appreciate what others are doing when they play that class. You NEED to broaden your horizons!!

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August 28th, 2012, 01:59
I think we don't have a MAIN group of toons anymore. The former main group is at level 18+, but we seem to have swapped to the level 7-8 group. I don't mind that since we have more freedom of choice at level 8. There will always be people away on the Friday sessions so planning is hard. That's an important reason we swap toons quite a bit

By not having a plan we can end up like we did last Friday. I entered the game session 10 minutes before we were supposed to start with my low level toon, expecting that we would form 1-2 groups and play something like we always do. Instead I saw most of you were already busy in a quest chain doing Carnival, thus having started early. That meant my toons were left out of the entire session since the group was full and it was a full chain taking several hours. I had to pug instead. I have pugged a lot before so I didn't mind that and did Tangleroot with hirelings. I wish I had known that upfront so I could have remained in bed instead instead of waking up before 1am to start a gaming session, but I can live with that.

I think improvising gaming sessions is fine if we can just do what we want and see what happens when we login. But I can't count the number of times I've been told that I have played a toon too much to get ahead some of you by a few ranks or maybe a level. So there are obviously some kinds of rules. One example is our level 18+ group. We had a group doing all important quests up to level 18. My toon got enough XP to reach 20 and took the level so he didn't lose epic XP. Since we had completed all level 17 and below quests it shouldn't have mattered. All the others in the group were level 18 or higher. We would still get BB bonus for the quest remaining to get all to 20.

Instead I see that others toons that were formerly free agents are introduced into the former main group. These toons could be below 18 or miss level 17 or lower quests. That means my toon became too high for playing in the 18 group if one wants the bravery bonus. That means my toon is no longer suited for the group anymore, at least until the group gets up to 20 too. There is nothing wrong in adding new toons to the groups we play, but if one wants to use certain rules regarding leveling then that can be a challenge to uphold. I don't mind that I'm suddenly above level to play. I can always play something else, but we have to realize such things happen if we don't have some kind of system.

If people are willing to play quests for fun and not complain about not getting bravery bonus every time then there is less of a problem if we improvise a lot. But I'm getting told things like "I can't play with you because I lose 10% XP doing so". I think that if you want the toon to level 20 and get 18k instead of 20k it's still a lot better than getting nothing. Playing a toon is the best way to get XP. I think gaining XP is not the main reason to play. Alrik is very right about that.

My main point is that if we want rules regarding who to play, when to advance in level and so on then we also need some kind of rules regarding groups, what to play and when. If not we will be better off with improvising and just form a group with people who show up at times people want to play.

I feel that one shouldn't feel guilty for playing with other guildies if some are online and want to play something. Just play and have fun instead of having to think about consequences for others who are not playing. There will be other chances for those who didn't play to play. In the long run it will even out. I don't mind repeating quests to help others who weren't present a chance for chain completion or getting favor they need.

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August 28th, 2012, 02:09
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Peter, just because you've played different D&D chars in other games doesn't mean they are the same in DDO. I discovered quite quickly that a Sorc in NWN played VASTLY different from a Sorc in DDO, as does a Bard. In fact, probably most do. While I prefer to play casters, I still enjoy trying other classes and styles of playing. I didn't always enjoy my Bard, but playing it was an experience I'm glad I had. I've tried most of the possible builds as have most of our regulars and at the very least, playing them helps me appreciate what others are doing when they play that class. You NEED to broaden your horizons!!
I haven't seen you play a paladin or cleric.

I have seen enough of certain toon classes to know how they work. I pick toons I know I can play well. Being a healer means I know I can alway find a group and I don't mind having to look after the health of others. Being a fighter is not my style because I like to have the safety net from lay on hands. Fighters perform better, but a good paladin can keep up pretty well.

Arcanes are the most powerful classes in the group, but I hate being a squishy. I don't like dying from a particularly nasty spell and having to rely upon healers to stay alive. I tried the favored soul, liked it at first, but not in the end. I miss the radiant aura and the spell variety.

I tried a rogue in NWN and truly hated that. So being a rogue is a no-no. Playing a druid is no point since it's new and everybody wants to play it.

If I had to select another toon I would probably pick a monk. Monks seem to be very sturdy and can stay alive for long. They hit hard too. I'm not particularly fond of a bard because they seem to be more group oriented than solo capable. I want a toon I can solo with too.

The main reason for not making a monk was that I had no monk gear (handwraps etc.). I had khopeshes in my reincarnation cache. So being a TWF ranger would probably be the choice. But we have a lot of rangers in the guild already.

I like to pick classes nobody else want. I'm the only paladin at the moment. Being a healer is a necessity for many quests so somebody must do it. I don't mind so there you go.

I want to have fun and don't feel the need to broaden my horizon in DDO. I play a monk in Diablo 3. That's enough for me. In Mass Effect I played a soldier (fighter). So I can try other roles if I want to.

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August 28th, 2012, 02:16
I forgot to mention another reason I don't want to chance a class. I'm too lazy to learn how to build a new class type. When I play I want to build a good toon and not learn by mistake. At the moment I know how to build paladins and clerics, but not monks and bards. I would end up with a squishy toon being the liability in the group in every session. I don't want to be the one hearing "we lost 10% XP because you died again".

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August 28th, 2012, 04:30
Yep, I had to take 8 on Aneiria because she was almost 9 when we hit Bloody Crypt. Pump is 3 ranks into 8, so next session will likely push him into holding 9 as well. Susan is also a rank into 8, but when we need a trap-monkey, I've got to run either Aneira or Pump.

I do want to hit Xorian Cipher though. We haven't hit that since the first life.

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August 28th, 2012, 06:18
Peter, you are correct that Bards are better group chars than solo, which I thought was the point of the exercise. However, I know Az was able to solo his Bard quite well, so it can be done. If you want to try a very good solo toon, then an Arti is a good choice. With WF, it can self-heal, do ranged, some melee if you like and can even handle traps. You might consider giving it a try.

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August 28th, 2012, 07:20
Even fleshbag artificers can self heal, either through the admixture potion 'bombs' or by taking construct essence as a feat.

Not once in nearly three years of playing has any of us ever gave a damn about the 10% bs xp. Not once.

Peter, how often did you consider Aerii as a Sorcerer to be squishy? She soloed quests on hard and elite that You refused to even run. The entire group struggled just to keep pace. This is a human Sorcerer, one that has two-manned elite DQ, soloed Chrono elite, and even in Eveningstart and beyond can cut a swath of devistation a mile wide, without being particularly bothered about only having heal scrolls for self healing.

Likewise, while I've found that Mirys' time as a Bard wasn't all that enjoyable until 21+, she has always been far from squishy. Or did you forget the elite Servants run that your hp were dropping like a rock and Mirys and Reywindd (the AA), weren't even fazed. Evasion and a high reflex save does wonders for a builds' survivability.

Squishy is a playstyle, not a class or race. Build a bad character, it won't survive as well. Period.

One issue with all this is that some of us are first lifers this run. So Aneira, Pump, and quite likely Ijii and Susan will be bouncing back and forth. I will have to and continue to bring the one not farthest ahead, and that brings the needed skills to the group. Mostly, this will be Aneira, Pump, and Ijii, as all are trap-capable builds. Susan is likely to get time in when we're not needing another trapper.

Peter, NWN and even PnP experience is irrelevant with DDO. So is watching others play in DDO. Until you have played a class into the mid-levels, you don't know jack about them. Even classes that seem similar at a distance are not. There are huge differences between Aerii the Sorcerer and Cairii the Wizard. And even more between Rachail as a Paladin and as a Fighter.

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August 28th, 2012, 10:36
Originally Posted by Peter Stauffenberg View Post
Instead I saw most of you were already busy in a quest chain doing Carnival, thus having started early. That meant my toons were left out of the entire session since the group was full and it was a full chain taking several hours. I had to pug instead.
I ask them all of the time regardless.

"Group full" isn't a reason not to ask them for me - apart from me not exactly knowing of how many players a "full group" actually consists.

I propose to just expand the group's size. Isn't this possible with the new grouping options ? I thought so.

And the new grouping options also allow ourselves - as far as I've understood them - to mark the group as "private", so no-one can join anymore.

Apart from that - you can ask me any time.
The only wish I have is that there won't be any zerging. Especially not in quests I've never done before.
In some, okay, yes (like in The Catacombs quest chain, at least for some part (Druiden's - oops - burial grounds, or Shan-To-Kor).

Besides, I'm slowly learning which toon belongs to whom by time now, but I still haven't memorized every one yet. I think especially Trevor's are new to me.
The "K-Power" and Peter's are the easiest to memorize for me.

I think we should just take a look and see whether the new grouping options might help us. Groups can still become private ones, so no-one would see (and thus not join) them, I think.

@Peter : Rangers can also self-heal to some extend at later levels. Until that, they just need hirelings.

I would end up with a squishy toon being the liability in the group in every session. I don't want to be the one hearing "we lost 10% XP because you died again".
I'm dying all of the time, so this isn't relevant to me.

But I'm getting told things like "I can't play with you because I lose 10% XP doing so".
You won't hear that from me.

I've read a lot about this in the foruzms, and I say : Just don't listen to the people who are saying this. Kind of like "false friends" are.

Bravery Bonus is one of the actually most-discussed and least-understood things within the forums - and I think within the servers as well. Even I don't still quite understand all of its mechanics - the only thing I've understood so far is that one gets a bonus of xp when doing quests on elite difficulty first - and I don't even know within which level range this takes place. Some say that a level above or below doesn't hurt it (the BB, I mean), but all of those many discussions rather confuse me than enlight me.

Originally Posted by Peter Stauffenberg View Post
Being a healer means I know I can alway find a group

[snip]

I tried a rogue in NWN and truly hated that. So being a rogue is a no-no.
I must say that Rogues makie it easy to find a group, too.
At least that's true for quests with lots of traps.

During the last session I spoke of above I was contacted by someone I haven't seen before via /tell, and he (or she, one never knows) asked me if I wanted to joing … I think it was Sharn. As an Artificer ! And he wanted a "trapper" !

People who are capable of disabling traps are sought after, too.
Sure, they aren't great fighters, but someone has to do it.

(And there are many diverse opinions in the DDO forums about whether Rogues have great DPS or not. It's almost like a schism : Some say yes, others no. And I really can't say, because I've never played one.)

Originally Posted by Peter Stauffenberg View Post
I like to pick classes nobody else want.
Take Bard. No-one really seems to rtealize how much good they can do. I have read tales of PUG members applauding a Cleric for healing everyone, although the Cleric was dead and the Bard doing the healing all of the time.

What I've read in the forums about people not realizing the uses of a Bard is almost like some sort of racism, but I don't know if this is really true. But the tales I read were at least … kind of disturbing. To me.

Edit : Rugues have great evasion, I often read. And with this new system, high dexterity might even add up to the mitigation of damages. (Or so I understood it.)


Edit : Now this is a truly wonderful screenshot ! http://www.ddo.com/de/news/2371-ddo-…of-the-week-87
It looks enlarged even greater !

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Last edited by Alrik Fassbauer; August 28th, 2012 at 11:04.
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August 28th, 2012, 11:41
Bards are fantastic group members at the higher levels, but it's HARD work getting them there. They aren't the best for soloing since they tend to be generalists, especially at the lower levels. Having played one to cap, I won't rush to play another, but I can easily see how they are FAR more versatile than Clerics at the higher mid levels and above!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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