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RPGWatch Forums » Games » Indie RPG » Tactica: Maiden of Faith » Empty Big World / Small Full of Content

Default Empty Big World / Small Full of Content

October 27th, 2010, 11:42
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
And that is all lost for many people unless there is a reason to go there.
For how many, exactly ?

We don't have any serious data at all regarding the sum of players preferring a certain playing style.

Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
I love the feeling of finding something… like a mysterious temple… and since it isn't part of a quest you are really wondering why it is there.
Exactly. This was part of the Gothic 1 fun for me.

And everywhere else.

In the Larian forums, I even developed my own ideas of certain "forgotten times" in which creatures mist have existed looking like these giant statues which look like a mixture between a lion and a giant rat.

And these catacombs and temples … At least [i]someone[/i9 must have built them.

This is the "mystery factor".

For some, it is just fun musing about this.

Others just go through it, like in Blizzard's action games, where hacking & slashing was everything, and I believe that only very, very few people ever wondered on how these catacombs evolved …

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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October 27th, 2010, 13:35
to me it just breaks the immersion, believe it or not. Here you are, with the mega-evil Magaladon about to kill the king, or the mega-lich Colgatest on his way to necrotize the whole kingdom, and I'm the only one that can do something about it! oh, but maybe I'll take a 7 day detour to the southwest to see what color of flowers there are. That's what I mean by having a reason to go places. If the Sword of Justice, which is rumored to penetrate Colgatest's black aura, is hidden in a cave to the southwest, then it makes sense for me to go exploring the area. Now, if it's a game in which nothing is happening, in which I'm not 'the chosen one', then ok, whatever, let's catalog the colors of the flowers in the whole region.
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October 27th, 2010, 13:44
I don't think that will be a problem, because if and I say IF there is something urgent going on, you'll be in trouble if you don't deal with it. However while the world is relatively calm you can spend some time exploring.
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October 27th, 2010, 14:45
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
On the other hand I hate explorer auto-generated wilderness with nothing interesting to find…… it is really hard to find the right balance.
That's the key right there and a lot of times developers don't understand this. It has to be interesting. Either with a story, some bauble that you can't find everywhere else or even just a challenge.

Two Worlds missed this by a mile. They had all this wonderfully huge area to explore and there wasn't anything in it. There was a cave thrown in every now and then or a monster village, but that's it. Nothing that enhanced the story. No awesome loot or even a good challenge.

Fallout 1, 2, and NV (a little bit with 3, but ever since I played NV, it just looks sad in comparison)…..had an interesting world to explore. Sometimes cool loot was to be had, sometimes a sidequest and sometimes it was just a little detail that added a little background to the setting.

There is no good way to autogenerate an interesting area to explore. Maybe with Rogues, but that's a whole other type of game.

Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
to me it just breaks the immersion, believe it or not. Here you are, with the mega-evil Magaladon about to kill the king, or the mega-lich Colgatest on his way to necrotize the whole kingdom, and I'm the only one that can do something about it!
You're missing out then. If you play the main storyline quest by quest two things will happen. You'll finish the game very quickly and you'll miss out on a lot of things.

I wasn't joking about linear games. They are fun and I have no idea why people knock them so much. I prefer certain styles of games and can have fun with any of these like RPGs (obviously), action, FPS, Adventure, strategy RT or TB and throw in a horror game every now and then.

I don't really have a preference over which of those styles I play at any given time, but once I start a certain type of game I do expect certain things. I expect a sandbox to be exactly that, a sandbox to play in. I expect my action games to be choc full of adrenaline pumping action and I expect my puzzle games to be annoying as hell sometimes Oh and I expect to DIE A LOT when playing rogues.

You can't expect a style of game to be anything than what it is supposed to be. Like I do not want in any way shape or form a MMO style quest system in which they tell you where to go and what to do all the time. Keep that crap in the MMOs and leave my SP games alone.

Despite all my rage.
I'm still just a rat in a cage.
Last edited by skavenhorde; October 27th, 2010 at 21:30.
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October 27th, 2010, 21:24
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
oh, but maybe I'll take a 7 day detour to the southwest to see what color of flowers there are.
I think this has also something to do with the urgency, the "urgency factor" of a quest.

If the urgency isn't too high, okay, then it would be reasonable to make a detour.

Maybe then someone even finds something better, then ? (Let's say a quest requires a special item to heal a person. It's not very urgend, because it is a non-lethal, but nasty illness, like … let's say a simple flu. On the way, however, fetching this herb, IF you do a detour, you might find deeply hidden deep within the wilderness an even better herb … One the herbalists had nearly forgotten about … And one that is only noticeable to you if you have a high botany skill … Or is only mentioned by the town's herbalists if you ask deep enough … )

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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October 27th, 2010, 22:46
There's urgency and urgency with REAL time limits before something catastrophic happens. I don't like the latter… Not fun.
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October 28th, 2010, 21:52
I personally do not like the huge, empty expanses of the Elder Scrolls games.You don't have to include the entire world into your first game, an entire series of events can take place in a small valley, a single large city and it's surrounding environs, or even in a single labyrinth .

At the same time, if you can't take two steps without running over another NPC, then it's a bit crowded.

It was the night before Hogswatch…

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October 29th, 2010, 10:32
This reminds me of the principles of short stories vs. novels :

short story = limited time & space
novel = rather un-limited time & space

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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November 3rd, 2010, 12:34
Small & full of content by miles. I can readily suspend my disbelief that a thriving metropolis in game lore actually only takes a few minutes to walk around, an easy trade off for the benefits of not having to wander through emptiness or randomly generated content.
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September 7th, 2012, 20:06
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
Here is something I have been thinking a lot about and I want your guys opinion about it. Personally I prefer a game which only has small cities with a lot of meaning to them… compared to oblivion/morrowind/Baldurs Gate which has some enormous cities… these cities are acctually full of people but especially in Oblivion these people are just puppies…. making it a boring task to explore the city and try find someone which has something meaningful to say. My favorite is Ultima 7 what a fantastic cities it have! But this question doesn't go only for cities but for other areas too.

So should we aim for smallish but meaningful? slightly bigger but less meaningful? what is your opinion? The drawback of too small and too meaningful is it will create a very small world…. so too small is also not good IMHO.

Big and empty like Oblivion is not an option.. no matter how much someone want it I won't do it
I prefer big and NOT empty myself but if you feel constrained to only those two or three options then perhaps the middle of the road option. Small worlds, even when they are masterfully designed and everyone you meet is important, = smaller game and is less interesting to me.

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