Grimoire Kickstarter

Dear RPGWatch guys: this joke wasn't funny the first 20 times you did it. Stop trolling the internet and let the (quite fictional) Cleve persona disappear already.

Originally Posted by wizardryfan

I can see a huge problem though if this is to be distributed for iOS. The buttons are just too small to be touched comfortable. And there are lots of these small buttons. All of them are required for the micromanagement, but this just won't do for the small touchscreens. No one will playthis game with a pencil. Grimoire can only be a PC game.

There's enough space on an iPad. Even with a redesigned interface the game would miserable on anything smaller anyway.

After reading even a few of the comments following my simple link to the videos, I realized it was a huge mistake to post anything here. Moderator you can see I've removed my comments because the delete button for the thread didn't work. I'd ask moderators if they can remove this thread altogether.

I won't be posting anything again to RPGWatch for any reason.

Wow. While a couple people gave you a rough ride, I thought the thread overall was fairly well-behaved. Nothing really to justify a rage quit like you're pulling, but whatever makes you feel good, I suppose. Just keep in mind that while you were regularly getting crucified across the internet, two people here at the Watch consistently defended your game on your behalf. Your return on that loyalty leaves a little bit to be desired, if I do say so myself.

Best of luck with Grimoire. It really is a good game, and I appreciated the opportunity to beta test it for you a few years back. It's unfortunate that you're making such an effort to alienate all your potential customers.

edit- BTW, the delete button works as intended—you can delete your own threads until someone posts a reply. After that point, it requires mod/admin powers. It helps keep our posters on an even footing, since no user's posts get deleted by another user.

Originally Posted by Cleveland Mark Blakemore
I won't be posting anything again to RPGWatch for any reason.

Wait, are you saying this is the end of the 15-year-long teasing? No more missed releases on July (why was it always July, by the way)? No more reports on the wonders of the gamma testing?

And, most importantly, you won't convince us that golden babies can fly?

Awww, I've just died a little bit inside. Gonna miss you, bud.

The game actually looks very pretty damn professional if you ask me. I'd like to give it a shot myself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h4pftOQlCWY

I don't get the bashing? Who cares how long we have waited or how many dates were blown. Life interferes so BFD. If Inquisitor saw the light of day Grimoire can too!

Then you can donate to the kickstarter. You won't get the game, but you will give Cleve some money, which he might use to support himself. It does look reminiscent of Wizards and Warriors, which was a fun little game.

As of the beta build that I tested, Grimoire had nowhere near the bugs that infested W&W.

Per tradition, Long Live the UberHorse!

Originally Posted by crpgnut
Then you can donate to the kickstarter. You won't get the game, but you will give Cleve some money, which he might use to support himself. It does look reminiscent of Wizards and Warriors, which was a fun little game.

No game no money. That is the policy of kickstarter as far as I know.

Not true. As long as you hit your goal, you get the money. The money, in the case of Wasteland, is paying for the staff's salary. That's the whole point of kickstarter. I'm not sure Cleve, an aussie, can do kickstarter though. He might have to go a lesser known route. I think if he can fool someone in the States into backing him, he can do the kickstarter via proxy. You just have to have a bank from one of the countries that supports it.

This is just half-memory though, and I could be totally wrong

Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002
I don't get the bashing? Who cares how long we have waited or how many dates were blown. Life interferes so BFD. If Inquisitor saw the light of day Grimoire can too!

I think his personality may have something to do with it And Grimoire and rpgs arent the only arena on the internet he has used said personality to earn himself contempt and dislike.

Wow, I never got involved in any prior Cleve threads. I heard he was a bad guy and he sorta proved it in this thread - too bad.

OTH, I have been a fan of the game for a long time. I look forward to buying the game when it comes out. But his behavior here make any type of kickstarter pledge look foolish.

As I said before, I think the game looks cool enough. Once it's available I would probably buy it. It's even got (via Corwin and JDR, e.g.) quite a bit of good reviews from the watch here. That is not the question. But given the history of the game and the personality of its developer, would I give money to preorder it (which the Kickstarter drive would boil down to here, as the game is essentially developed, so we are not kickstarting it's development here, we are somehow supposed to reassure the developer that it would be "worthwhile" finishing whatever needs finishing here). And that's just as clearly a no. It's a pity because the game clearly exists, but over the years I came to the conclusion that Cleve's main remaining interest in the game is how wonderfully he can tease the internet with it.

It's funny (and a little scary) that people still don't really understand the concept of Kickstarter.

You are neither buying nor pre-ordering a game, when you back a Kickstarter project!

You are *investing* in the project, because the developer has managed to convince you that they can deliver something cool, that you want to be a part of, and which cannot be funded by traditional means. In the case of game Kickstarter projects it has simply become the norm that you receive a copy of the game once (or rather *if*) it is completed. In some other types of Kickstarter projects you are simply giving the guys your money for whatever reason…

Once the Kickstarter is successful, your credit card will be charged - and your money will be "gone" without any kind of security.

In the case of Grimoire - it really does look like a really cool game, and I can pretty much guarantee that *if* it ever gets released - then I would buy it.
But investing in it, hoping that Cleve will actually finish it?? No way!

I think most people understand rather well what it is supposed to be. Saying it is investing is also wrong, imho - in an investment you have some kind of binding contract what the return of investiment is, given certain conditions. That's not the case with Kickstarter. It's basically a donation, with a promise of certain benefits in return.

Yes, donation is a much better word for it actually.

Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan
I think most people understand rather well what it is supposed to be. Saying it is investing is also wrong, imho - in an investment you have some kind of binding contract what the return of investiment is, given certain conditions. That's not the case with Kickstarter. It's basically a donation, with a promise of certain benefits in return.

I remember back in the 70s and early 80s how a good number of games talked about in then-fledgling gaming mags never materialized. Aside from perhaps mild dissapointment, I don't think I ever got angry or pissed off about it.

I've never understood the rage here about Grimoire being in perpetual development. I could understand mild dissapointment. But the rage expressed not only in this thread but in many threads here at RPGwatch over the years is just bizzare to be honest.

There are so many real world things you could choose to take up a cause against that are substantially more meaningful. Getting angry and irate because someone only talks about but never actually delivers on a game isn't one of them. At least to me anyway.

It's not the game, Mad, it's the dev. Still, it's not worth discussing, at this point.

Originally Posted by crpgnut
It's not the game, Mad, it's the dev. Still, it's not worth discussing, at this point.

I see. My impression has been that people are primarily upset because the game is in perpetual development.

It's really the double-whammy that stirs up all the rage. If you had a nice guy that never shipped the game, people would grouch a little and move on to other games. If you had a jerk that shipped his game, people would grouch a little and then play the game. When you've got both at the same time, well, that tends to get a little ugly.

It really is unfortunate, because the game (at least, based on the beta version I helped test a few years back) really is a fun time and surprisingly well made for an indie.