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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Obsidian Entertainment - Project Eternity Update #3 - Party, Characters, Races

Default Obsidian Entertainment - Project Eternity Update #3 - Party, Characters, Races

September 18th, 2012, 02:18
Obsidian has posted their next Project Eternity update for Kickstarter, covering some basic but welcome information such as party size, the importance of formations, a little on character creation and some story background.
The Kickstarter update has a video from JE Sawyer and also a link to a post on the Obsidian forums. Since they've been crashing from the load, here's the entire post:
[quote]
Project Eternity is still early in development and we are still working on many of the cultures, factions, and ethnic groups of the world and debating many of the system concepts. However, there are certain fundamental things we want to let you know about the game and the setting for Project Eternity.

Your Party
The maximum party size is the player's main character (PC) and up to five companions for a total of six characters. This does not preclude the addition of temporary characters in special circumstances. Companions are never forced on the player. Players can explore the entire world and its story on their own if they so choose. We feel companions are excellent sounding boards for the player's (and other companions') actions, but the story is ultimately about the player's personal conflict among the larger social and political complexities of the world.

Formations
A key element of the classic party-based tactical combat that we are developing is the use of party formations. As in the good ol' games, you can arrange your party in a large number of set formations. You can also construct your own formations if you want to get fancy. When moving companions, you have the ability to rotate formations for more precise positioning.

Character Creation
At a minimum, players will be able to specify their main character's name, sex, class, race (including subrace), culture, traits, ability scores, portrait, and the fundamental starting options of his or her class (gear, skills, and talents). We have not worked out customization details of character avatars, but we believe those are important and will be updating on these specifics in the future.

Companions
In Project Eternity, companions exist for both narrative and mechanical purposes. Companions are designed to have a driving interest in the player's central conflict. Their personalities and motivations open plot branches and generate conflicts for players to resolve over the course of the story. They are highly reactive to the player's actions and to the world around them. Additionally, companions exist to give players strategic management options in party composition that expand the party's capabilities in exploration, combat, and quest resolution. It is no coincidence that there are at least as many companions as there are classes. As stated above, companions are not required to play through Project Eternity's story, but we feel that they can add greatly to the experience.

The Set-Up
The player witnesses an extraordinary and horrific supernatural event that thrusts them into a unique and difficult circumstance. Burdened with the consequences of this event, the player has to investigate what has happened in order to free themselves from the restless forces that follow and haunt them wherever they go.

The Nature of You
Your character is not required to be of any particular race, cultural background, sex, class, moral outlook, personality, organization, etc. The premise is that you are a victim of circumstance. How you choose to deal with your situation is up to you. You can bear it with stoicism and restraint or fly off in a rage at anyone who gets in your way. The world will react to your choices, but the game is designed to give you the freedom to play your character the way you want to.

Races
We are still developing the races of Project Eternity, but we are creating a range that encompasses the recognizable (e.g. humans, elves, dwarves), the out-of-the-ordinary (e.g. the so-called "godlike"), and the truly odd (?!). Races and subraces differ from each other culturally, but the races also have different physiological factors that can contribute to friction and confusion between them.

Within even the recognizable races (including humans), we are creating a variety of ethnic subtypes and nationalities. This world's races did not all spring forth from the same place,…More information.
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September 18th, 2012, 02:18
The set-up remind me of Dragonlance, well of that dude that caused the Cataclysm in particular. There is also a bit of MOTB in it as well I guess. Or it's just that MOTB have Dragonlance-ish story or something? :/

Character creation sound awesome! Custom party formation too! I love that companions won't be mercenaries only, but affect things around you (this mean lots of re-playable options).

The races, I think, need more revealing before I have any opinion of them, although the concept art of the Dwarf Ranger is pretty cool (and could have been made for Icewind Dale).
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September 18th, 2012, 03:30
This was a much better update than the other two. Before, everything felt so.. half-assed and underdeveloped. After reading this, I remembered why I dropped 20 bucks the instant I was able to.

I do wish the tiers were setup differently, however. I gave WL2 100, and I'm currently giving this 20, even though I'm arguably more excited about this. It's just.. well.. 100 for a CE seems decent. 140 seems excessive, and I won't pay 100 just for a t-shirt. With WL2, the box and manual were 50. Here it's 65. Again, just a little high for my taste.

All of a sudden, I see myself looking at 20 bucks and being unable to convince myself to go higher.
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September 18th, 2012, 03:55
This was a good sort of update and I hope they continue to make more along this line as they can. The mention that sub-races was nice to hear because it means the races planned as a number understates the degree of variability offered in character creation. I wonder if they will mention something like sub-classes later on because that would be an even more meaningful revelation, though the implications that more classes have on the complexity of balancing and fine-tuning the mechanics is probably also more significant.
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September 18th, 2012, 04:25
Good update.

Personally, I'm a bit surprised they aren't more organised. I'd have thought they should (internally) been shooting for $3M and would have the updates queued and ready to roll. The science of major Kickstarters seems quite well established to me.

Gotta communicate faster, Obsidian.

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September 18th, 2012, 05:10
I don't understand all the reactions that this was a bad campaign….

for one, I don't think the Obsidian crew really knew what to expect with Kickstarter - I doubt ANY of them were watching any of the other campaigns on a daily, let alone hourly, basis to see how they were run, so them being surprised at how quickly they reached their goal (one of the highest set for a game on there, if I'm not mistaken) shouldn't seem weird to anyone.

for another, there was the whole "weekend" as in people not in the office and not working. While an argument can be made about Facebook, Twitter, etc, and always being connected - sometimes people take a break from work for their families or to relax. Again, they didn't expect this to hit in a day. It's not unreasonable in the least for them to have thought they had the weekend before needing an update.

lastly, in three days they've had 3 updates. I know SUCCESSFUL Kickstarter campaigns that had 3 updates PERIOD.

*shakes his head*

Tempest. In. A. Teapot.

People were whining a day in that Obsidian hadn't listed stretch goals. I honestly believe they weren't counting on stretch goals.

EDIT - Decided to check on a few things:

here's Wasteland 2's schedule:
Kickstarter started on 3-13, first update on 3-13 reads this, second update is released on 3-15 and reads thus, and third is on 3-17 and reads as follows.

Fargo's updates being mostly "thanks, thank you, so surprised, didn't expect!"

Comparatively, Obsidian is much more on the ball.

I'll spare the links, but Shadowrun Returns did the exact same run as Obsidian - 3 days, 3 updates, 3rd day's update having details and stretch goals.

Teapot. Tempest.
Last edited by Merin; September 18th, 2012 at 05:20.
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September 18th, 2012, 05:15
Originally Posted by Merin View Post
I don't understand all the reactions that this was a bad campaign….
Well that would be because that's not what anyone is saying. There is a difference between saying they could be more fully capitalizing on their success and what you appear to be interpreting from what has been said. Go ahead and shake your head and label constructive criticism as to how the campaign could do much better as "whining."

Also, are you sure you know what tempest in a teapot means? It might better describe your reaction to such criticism than the criticisms themselves.

EDIT - Decided to check on a few things:
Yes you checked out some examples of the much much earlier games to have been unexpectedly successful successful. Since this is now the 13th million dollar+ kickstarter rapid success should no longer be so surprising and there are now also examples where the project leaders were far more prepared. One need not have watched them every day to see how they did this either, simply looking at "most funded" and viewing say Bones once will demonstrate this. Even the campaigns you mention serve as good examples of how one should be prepared rather than caught flabbergasted by success rather than as excuses for it.

Again, this is not to call this a "bad" kickstarter, merely that they could be doing much better, should not be surprised (considering they teased this for 5 days beforehand as well), and could yet improve their communication and better capitalize on their success. Nobody is calling this a botched project or lost cause - these criticisms are far timelier than that and there is time for them to react and regain any lost momentum. That's why most of the posts above yours called this update a rather good one - and that hardly seems to be justification for you to be accusing anyone of whining.
Last edited by jhwisner; September 18th, 2012 at 05:33.
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September 18th, 2012, 05:25
Originally Posted by jhwisner View Post
Well that would be because that's not what anyone is saying. There is a difference between saying they could be more fully capitalizing on their success and what you appear to be interpreting from what has been said. Go ahead and shake your head and label constructive criticism as to how the campaign could do much better as "whining."

Also, are you sure you know what tempest in a teapot means? It might better describe your reaction to such criticism than the criticisms themselves.
tempest in a teapot - small event that has been exaggerated out of proportion

I'd say that claiming that Obsidian was running a poor Kickstarter campaign, not giving enough information, late with goals and details…
as compared to what, I would say other game Kickstarter campaigns which ran slower or same speed…
is making a mountain out of a mole hill.

It's not constructive criticism. They are 3. Days. In. They had ART for their tiers of rewards on the first day, clearly showing what each tier gave. That's more than MANY campaigns offer - that is what the best campaigns do. Now they have stretch goals about a day after they reached their goal - maybe a little faster would have been better, but they were not at work on Sunday to do so and needed to have a meeting about what those goals could be. They didn't expect this. inXile didn't either, nor did Harebrained, nor did Double Fine.

Double Fine's first update was a week after they hit their goal.

My contention is that there's a lot of noise on the net to the point of (check the Obsidian forums if you don't believe me) people were claiming Obsidian was trying to pull a scam.

I shake my head because people sure like following the crowd.
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September 18th, 2012, 05:38
Double Fine's first update was a week after they hit their goal.
Yes and those past kickstarters serve as great resources for learning how to better take advantage of early momentum. That they also were caught off guard by their early success serves as evidence that this could have been anticipated better than it was rather than somehow demonstrate that subsequent kickstarters should have also not expected similar things to happen. This criticism itself is not even new nor to be unexpected in this situation, as it was also leveled at some of the very kickstarters you mention and Wasteland 2 in particular. If those projects somehow serve as examples for you, then so should the lessons that could have been rightly learned from them.

Again - saying it could do much better is not the same as saying its doing outright poorly. And yes it's only three days in so this criticism can be constructive because they still have time to do better - as posters in this thread have indicated they appear to be doing. You are ascribing attitudes and intents that are not here.

Even the poster who said they thought it was somewhat half assed isn't being wholly negative about the project, if you read what they actually say. They did give money to it after all, but they are also voicing the reasons why they are not giving more money as of yet. Stating how a developer could entice you to give more money sounds like pretty damned constructive criticism to me even if it is somewhat colorful.
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September 18th, 2012, 05:58
Originally Posted by jhwisner View Post

Yes you checked out some examples of the much much earlier games to have been unexpectedly successful successful. Since this is now the 13th million dollar+ kickstarter rapid success should no longer be so surprising and there are now also examples where the project leaders were far more prepared. One need not have watched them every day to see how they did this either, simply looking at "most funded" and viewing say Bones once will demonstrate this. Even the campaigns you mention serve as good examples of how one should be prepared rather than caught flabbergasted by success rather than as excuses for it.

Again, this is not to call this a "bad" kickstarter, merely that they could be doing much better, should not be surprised (considering they teased this for 5 days beforehand as well), and could yet improve their communication and better capitalize on their success. Nobody is calling this a botched project or lost cause - these criticisms are far timelier than that and there is time for them to react and regain any lost momentum. That's why most of the posts above yours called this update a rather good one - and that hardly seems to be justification for you to be accusing anyone of whining.
Some? How about Shadowrun Online (ended August 14th, 3 updates in a first week), Chivlary (ended Sept 14th, first update was over a week after it started) or Broken Sword (still going, 3 updates in first 5 days)?

You seem to be saying, and saying that it is reasonable, to expect Obsidian to give more information and be better at this than EVERY OTHER GAME ON KICKSTARTER.

The fact that they ONLY do AS WELL as the BEST is grounds for criticism.

THIS is what a mountain out of a mole-hill is. Tempest in a teapot. A company that is busy working on other projects starts this Kickstarter thing, which despite the internet treating everything like it's ancient if it happened more than week ago, is a very new and fragile business model.

They are doing at least as well as any who have come before. To criticize them for not being better than everyone before them (and concurrent with them) is ridiculous.

Richard Burlew ran an amazing Kickstarter, but he'll be the first to admit he had no idea what he was doing and just stumbled on success. Reaper and Zpocalypse, the other two I personally witnessed do amazing, look like they had PLANNED IT OUT VERY WELL… but even they weren't more than an update a day at the start.

Give them more than 3 days to criticize them. Their page was much better than Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective or Jane Jensen or Takedown or Banner Saga were at the start.

The impulse to find something to complain about stuns me.

Yes, I'm upset at this. This isn't the only place I'm finding this. I can only assume that this grows out of the "Obsidian games are broken buggy" rep they have.
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September 18th, 2012, 06:08
You seem to be saying, and saying that it is reasonable, to expect Obsidian to give more information and be better at this than EVERY OTHER GAME ON KICKSTARTER.

The fact that they ONLY do AS WELL as the BEST is grounds for criticism.
That's not what anyone is saying and you're ignoring kickstarters that have maintained better momentum. The total raised is not the measure of success in how well a kickstarter is managed but rather the ability to maintain high daily pledge numbers (or even increase them) over the course of a kickstarter. Type in all caps if it helps you vent your confused and misplaced rage, but there are far better examples of how to handle a kickstarter. Had you looked at the Bones kickstarter you would see this.

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/151…n/#chart-daily

Whoever you're raging at they don't seem to be posting on this forum and if they are it seems that you are woefully misrepresenting and misinterpreting what they are saying. You seem very fond of calling this a tempest in a teapot, but it seems that it is you who is making things out to be something other than what they are - in their magnitude as well as their intent and actual content.
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September 18th, 2012, 06:15
I was using kicktraq. How well managed a campaign is has little to do with overall amount of money brought in.

You cannot compare finished campaigns with 3 day in campaigns. What you can do is compare the first 3 days.
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September 18th, 2012, 06:17
Originally Posted by Merin View Post
I was using kicktraq. How well managed a campaign is has little to do with overall amount of money brought in.

You cannot compare finished campaigns with 3 day in campaigns. What you can do is compare the first 3 days.
What you can do is shout the lessons of past campaigns as soon as you think they might not be being taken to heart. That increases the chances that they do take them to heart with more time left available. This isn't about "judging" the campaign as a whole as you seem to think it is. Its about pointing out ways they could be doing better and hoping they do. If you wait till you can rightfully judge success or failure than you've waited to late to be constructive.

This sort of criticism isn't about judging the campaign as a success or failure its about saying how it could be more of a success. If that means pointing out the lessons they should have learned from those past campaigns, as successful as they might have been in spite of them, that is not a bad thing.
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September 18th, 2012, 06:20
"Before, everything felt so.. half-assed and underdeveloped" - if half-assed and underdeveloped is not synonymous with bad…

"Personally, I'm a bit surprised they aren't more organised.
(…)
Gotta communicate faster, Obsidian." - calls it disorganized (not being more organized implies disorganized by definition) and says they aren't communicating fast enough.

Half-assed, underdeveloped, not organized, needing to communicate faster. I summed that up as "bad" and I don't think that's exaggerating.

Level of organization and amount of communication over the first three days is what I was responding to, and gave examples of.

No one in this thread until you brought up how much was raised.
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September 18th, 2012, 06:31
Originally Posted by jhwisner View Post
What you can do is shout the lessons of past campaigns as soon as you think they might not be being taken to heart. That increases the chances that they do take them to heart with more time left available. This isn't about "judging" the campaign as a whole as you seem to think it is. Its about pointing out ways they could be doing better and hoping they do. If you wait till you can rightfully judge success or failure than you've waited to late to be constructive.

This sort of criticism isn't about judging the campaign as a success or failure its about saying how it could be more of a success. If that means pointing out the lessons they should have learned from those past campaigns, as successful as they might have been in spite of them, that is not a bad thing.
Me, March 15th, to Brian Fargo and inXile during their Wasteland 2 campaign -
"I'm going to reiterate that Brian and the gang at inXile should definitely study the way that Rich Burlew at OotS ran his Kickstarter. Add goals that the donators can reach with new things added that most (if not all) who donate can gain benefit from if those goals are reached. It becomes a game - people checking back to see if the latest goal is broken. Then, when it is, another goal is set with another "reward." These rewards, obviously, should be things added to the game overall if possible (off the top of my head - "if we reach $2 million, we will have an old-school expansion that all donators above level X (say, $30?) will receive for free as a digital download when completed - though that might not be the right amount to finance that, it's just an example) With goals to reach, people dig deeper and add more. Especially if the goals benefit everyone who donated. it worked wonders for OotS. I cannot recommend it enough if inXile wants a bigger budget and a bigger impact on the gaming industry."

And I have said something along those lines (adding Zpocalypse and Reaper Bones in to my recommendations) to most Kickstarter campaigns I pledged to and followed, including Project Eternity.

Constructive advice is one thing.

Trust me - go to BSN, go to Obsidian's forums, go to the Kickstarter comments - people were going so far as to say that Obsidian was trying to pull off a scam they had given so little information.

It's part of this meme that (hopefully) ended today with Update #3.

Maybe everyone (all 3 posters) before me were using stronger language than they meant, and their "constructive criticism" fell heavier on the criticism part - but, again, the criticism isn't constructive because what they are saying flies in the face of any reasonable level of comparison short of "you should be able to do better than those who came before you."

EDIT - and with that, I'm done. If you want the last word, you are free to have it. I won't be posting more in this thread - I've hogged it too much already.
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September 18th, 2012, 07:01
Originally Posted by Dhruin View Post
Good update.

Personally, I'm a bit surprised they aren't more organised. I'd have thought they should (internally) been shooting for $3M and would have the updates queued and ready to roll. The science of major Kickstarters seems quite well established to me.

Gotta communicate faster, Obsidian.
I have to agree with this. What blew me away was all the tweets about them celebrating, and having to come up with stretch goals. They should have already had stretch goals before the project was even posted. Obsidian has already said they were expecting to get funded, so why weren't they already prepared for this? Like you said, this is no longer new territory. After what happened with Wasteland 2, Shadowrun Returns, and even Planetary Annihilation, they should have known what to expect. People acting like it's something out of It's a Wonderful Life, made sense when the Doublefine thing happened since it really was uncharted, unexpected territory. Now the whole "wow are totally surprised and grateful" thing seems out of place. Enough ranting from me. Poorly organized campaign or not, I am glad things are continuing for them smoothly.
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September 18th, 2012, 07:10
Originally Posted by Merin View Post
I don't understand all the reactions that this was a bad campaign….
I think your emotion is misplaced. Noone called it "bad" - but I do believe they can do better. I'm a massive fan of Obsidian - I just to see them get the best result possible.

for one, I don't think the Obsidian crew really knew what to expect with Kickstarter
Well, then they didn't think it through. No, you can't predict with certainty, but if you don't think an Obsidian pitch for a Baldur's Gate-ish game wouldn't attract as much interest as a game from a low profile developer with an ancient IP, I don't know what to say. I've been saying this is at least a $3M+ proposition all along and I'd be stunned if they hadn't internally hoped for those sorts of numbers - just like Wasteland 2.

People were whining a day in that Obsidian hadn't listed stretch goals. I honestly believe they weren't counting on stretch goals.
Again, this is short-sighted. Based on Wasteland 2's experience - and we know they turned to Fargo for assistance and advice - they would need stretch goals by Day 3. But even if not, I'm saying a professional Kickstarter needs to have carefully costed their funding needs and planned ahead, probably with a few contingencies. In fact, I assume they did do this (because I don't believe they are inept).

here's Wasteland 2's schedule…Fargo's updates being mostly "thanks, thank you, so surprised, didn't expect!"…Comparatively, Obsidian is much more on the ball.

I'll spare the links, but Shadowrun Returns did the exact same run as Obsidian - 3 days, 3 updates, 3rd day's update having details and stretch goals.
A very valid point - but Obsidian can do better.

Fargo didn't have a template for a successful old-school RPG major Kickstarter campaign. Obsidian can not only look at the several multi-million dollar Kickstarters over the last 6 months or so, one of them even shares the same history!

It's not constructive criticism.
Sorry? Not constructive criticism would be "your games suck!". Posting that I believe faster updates would drive more pledges is entirely constructive.

…but they were not at work on Sunday to do so and needed to have a meeting about what those goals could be. They didn't expect this. inXile didn't either, nor did Harebrained, nor did Double Fine.
Sorry, Kickstarter is their job for the next month. I got up at 4AM local time to check the progress because that's when I estimated they'd pass the funding line - they need to do the same; you only get one shot at this. As for needing a meeting to discuss the content of the update, again, that should have already been in the pipeline queue.

You seem to be saying, and saying that it is reasonable, to expect Obsidian to give more information and be better at this than EVERY OTHER GAME ON KICKSTARTER.
Yes, exactly. They have more information to work with and they certainly have a stronger brand to work with than inXile (Hunted) and Harebrained (who?).

Yes, I'm upset at this. This isn't the only place I'm finding this. I can only assume that this grows out of the "Obsidian games are broken buggy" rep they have.
Certainly not from me. Again, I only want the best result. I realise people hate the idea of sales and marketing when it comes to games but this is a sales pitch and they need to sell it. When they passed the $1.4M stretch, they want to be straight on to driving pledges to the next goal. Go! Go! Go! Even if the update is merely platitudes ("thanks, you're a great community, bla bla"), that makes people feel appreciated and that the developer is engaged. That they hadn't had their committee meeting yet to approve the next update is meaningless in terms of appeasing the fans and driving pledges.

Just to be crystal clear: I only want the best. I'm not saying this is a bad campaign (or even close! They got funding in under two days! Yay!). I'm saying: this is a one-off opportunity to maximise your funding and you need to sell hard to get the best results.

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September 18th, 2012, 07:37
What was this thread about again?
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September 18th, 2012, 07:51
It all sounds like meatballs and gravy to me, although they seem to be taking on a lot of background development work in the process. It's not clear how much of this they will be able to work out in the time frame they will be able to fund it. Hopefully they won't be shy about borrowing from solid, well tested fantasy RPGs out there. Maybe some of the magic of Ars Magica and world settings like Harn? Perhaps some of the flavor of Katherine Kerr's novels? I like the fact that they are planning to have multiple types of humans as per the Elder Scrolls series.
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September 18th, 2012, 08:17
I like what they are doing. Fuck stretch goals, keep it essential, those stretch goals shouldn't be game changing/breaking.

what? if a game is made w/o kickstarter it needs a motivation to get only the money it deserves? If you like it you pay for it and thats that, if they make it with 300k and stick 2m in their pockets thats perfectly normal

Stop whining
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