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Default Avadon - Review @ Gear Diary

March 20th, 2011, 04:47
It actually sounds pretty interesting, Dhruin, et al. There seems to be a lot of new skills, which is vital in his games, at least for me. I know that I'm going to hate the tilesets, but I've been able to overlook them in the past. I really enjoyed Exile 1-3, Avernum 1, and Geneforge 1, so Avadon 1, might be a winner too. I probably won't enjoy Avadon 2, but I expect that at this point. You guys will get several more games of fun from Jeff, than I do.

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March 20th, 2011, 07:53
Um, did I get this right? Some dude who hasn't played any Spiderweb games, now won't get Avadon because some (who have proven to not know so much after all) say it's been streamlined compared to past Spiderweb games? Dude, obviously you don't care about this guy's work no matter what he does so just move on rather than engage in debate about things you both know little about and ultimately have no interest in…
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March 20th, 2011, 08:03
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Yawn.

Anyway, regarding why Vogel might want to target the iPad, the reality is that if he gets a featured position on the iTunes App Store and/or some word of mouth, he could make more on the App Store in an afternoon than in the entire last 17 years of Spiderweb games …
The reality? The reality is it's not a shallow flash game copycat of countless free games on newgrounds.com like Angry Birds is, and it's not a game that can be sold for $1, so no, there's no proof that it can sell more. I suppose offering it for $1 it would sell more VOLUME, but the revenue would be questionable especially when this move would most likely reduce the PC version revenue since people wouldn't pay $25 for something that costs $1 elsewhere.

The vast majority of Apple apps are not profitable. Just run the numbers Apple themselves gave on how many apps they have on the store and how much profit they distributed among ALL them, do the math, and see the pathetic average. Then consider there are only few success stories that share most of that and the rest get even less. Then consider NONE resemble Spiderweb games. Apple isn't some gaming savior like tech websites who don't know what gaming is want you to think.

Also, Jeff just doesn't do a very good job promoting his games on PC anyway. Sites like RPS and Indie Games talk about all sorts of low or high profile indie games helping them get much more attention. Spiderweb games barely get a mention on announcement/release and that's about it.

Resellers like Steam provide exposure to large masses of gamers yet Spiderweb games aren't on there.

Etc.

And even so, they've been chugging for years so they apparently still make enough so maybe they sell more than you want to think anyway.
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March 20th, 2011, 08:04
Originally Posted by Al3xand3r View Post
Um, did I get this right? Some dude who hasn't played any Spiderweb games, now won't get Avadon because some (who have proven to not know so much after all) say it's been streamlined compared to past Spiderweb games? Dude, obviously you don't care about this guy's work no matter what he does so just move on rather than engage in debate about things you both know little about and ultimately have no interest in…
I have to say that was very hard to read. Forums are for debate.

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March 20th, 2011, 10:05
Originally Posted by Al3xand3r View Post
Um, did I get this right? Some dude who hasn't played any Spiderweb games, now won't get Avadon because some (who have proven to not know so much after all) say it's been streamlined compared to past Spiderweb games? Dude, obviously you don't care about this guy's work no matter what he does so just move on rather than engage in debate about things you both know little about and ultimately have no interest in…
No, you didn't.
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March 20th, 2011, 12:24
You seem to be
Originally Posted by Al3xand3r View Post
The reality? The reality is it's not a shallow flash game copycat of countless free games on newgrounds.com like Angry Birds is, and it's not a game that can be sold for $1, so no, there's no proof that it can sell more. I suppose offering it for $1 it would sell more VOLUME, but the revenue would be questionable especially when this move would most likely reduce the PC version revenue since people wouldn't pay $25 for something that costs $1 elsewhere.
I have actually written loads about the inherent issues with the business model for 'serious' games on the iTunes App Store for Gear Diary. Go take a look … I don't feel like rehashing it here. (Actually, I'll do the work for you and point you to a few - here and here and here and here going from oldest to newest)

Suffice to say that there is much more to the story than a couple of $1 games being successful and everyone else being in a world of hurt. There are loads of examples and case studies and analyses of games that have been very successful - and the fact that top brand companies (EA for one) are investing *heavily* in these platforms speaks volumes.

Again, I was very specific in my wording 'if he gets a featured position on the iTunes App Store'. This means landing on the front page of he store in one of the so-called 'featured' slots - which based on all of those mentioned reports, means an immediate massive spike in sales.

Also, immediately assuming $1 as a price is just plain silly. I was explicit in stating $9.99 as what I saw as a potential - but things like Madden NFL and many other games actually started at $12.99. But there is also resistance at that level. As I stated in an iPad related article, the iPad as a gaming system commands higher app prices than the iPhone. That is a demonstrated reality.

So no, there is no 'proof', but the iTunes App store went from 5% to 20% portable gaming market share from 2008 to 2009, and while we don't know the 2010 numbers yet it is likely even higher. Games that gain a 'lift' by getting a favored spot or somehow grabbing attention of the buying public can literally make developers millionaires within a week. That is a reality. There are also no games yet like Avadon on the iPad, so there is an appeal. Will it translate to sales? Who knows.

Originally Posted by Al3xand3r View Post
And even so, they've been chugging for years so they apparently still make enough so maybe they sell more than you want to think anyway.
Have you read my review that this thread is about? The only possible answer is 'no', since otherwise you would realize that I have beta tested Jeff's stuff on Mac & PC for several years now. It isn't too much of a leap from that to realize that I a very much familiar with how Jeff has done through the years - heck, he has been very public with these things!

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March 20th, 2011, 13:42
I expect a reply like this : "But I know it better than you do !!!!!"

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March 22nd, 2011, 03:05
I don't know…I think I'd rather trust a guy who doesn't know the difference between 3's and E's than you lot of old fogeys

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October 22nd, 2012, 14:58
Oh, I got owned by advertisements of another blog, which don't even respond to anything I said, and some guy on the internet who uses a forum handle to judge my knowledge of a language. Sweet. As for the portable market marketshare, that whole market didn't exactly support CRPGs, even though there were higher priced products often similar to other home systems on the other portable systems. Just saying.
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October 22nd, 2012, 15:06
Originally Posted by Al3xand3r View Post
Oh, I got owned by advertisements of another blog, which don't even respond to anything I said. Sweet. As for the portable market marketshare, that whole market didn't exactly support CRPGs as a whole to begin with. Just saying.
You came back 18 months later for this? I DID address everything comprehensively. Yes I referenced stuff I wrote elsewhere, but made no pretense otherwise - I get no money from Gear Diary any more than for my reviews at RPGWatch or elsewhere. As for RPG support, the iPad has some decent titles, and continues to make strides.

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October 22nd, 2012, 16:27
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
You came back 18 months later for this? I DID address everything comprehensively. Yes I referenced stuff I wrote elsewhere, but made no pretense otherwise - I get no money from Gear Diary any more than for my reviews at RPGWatch or elsewhere. As for RPG support, the iPad has some decent titles, and continues to make strides.
Only Spiderweb's are decent, and some old palmtop ports. Then there are various Korean style grindfests and Dragon Quest knock offs I wouldn't call decent, just casual distractions worth the buck they're going for. That's about it. Not that I ever said it doesn't have or never will have decent RPGs so, much like your previous post, I have almost no idea what you even think you're arguing against with this. And yes, I just happened to do a search for my old posts and saw how off base your response to me was while attempting to look like it wasn't, re-stating it doesn't make it different. Anyway, I'm done with this topic now since the time frame offends you so.
Last edited by Al3xand3r; October 22nd, 2012 at 17:09.
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