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Default 6NOV: The Apocolypse Cometh

November 5th, 2012, 14:40
Well boys and girls, here we go!

Any predictions? I'll throw out mine—the dems get revenge for the supposed robbery of 12 years ago when Romney wins the popular vote by 2% but Obama takes the electoral college. The Four Horsemen start their ride but realize it's far less work to go on government assistance. After moving into public housing, they get a $12.4B government-backed loan for green energy (burning horse shit to make electricity), promptly file bankruptcy after laundering the money thru a Nigerian finance minister (yeah, that one), and get consulting jobs with ACORN to register damned souls to vote.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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November 5th, 2012, 14:51
How much does it matter, I wonder? It seems, given what the Obama administration actually achieved, that the power in the USA resides elsewhere, but not with the president. Financial, corporate and military america, that seem to be where the course is set, and these entities seem unassailable. Do you, as americans, really feel that your choice matters?
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November 5th, 2012, 14:53
System is even more of a joke than ours is.

As for where the power lies, that's never been much of a mystery. But it doesn't take much insight into the human psyche to recognise that Obama is about a million times better for the people - despite being limited by a competely corrupt system.
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November 5th, 2012, 16:04
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
System is even more of a joke than ours is.

As for where the power lies, that's never been much of a mystery. But it doesn't take much insight into the human psyche to recognise that Obama is about a million times better for the people - despite being limited by a competely corrupt system.
You might gain some understanding if you trade some of your "human psyche" insight for "basic accounting" insight. After all, the Euro "human psyche" model has proven to be successful and sustainable. Well, excepting Greece. And Spain. And Ireland. And Portugal. And Italy…

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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November 5th, 2012, 16:17
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
How much does it matter, I wonder? It seems, given what the Obama administration actually achieved, that the power in the USA resides elsewhere, but not with the president. Financial, corporate and military america, that seem to be where the course is set, and these entities seem unassailable. Do you, as americans, really feel that your choice matters?
While the president is largely a figurehead on policies such as the budget and foreign policy, a charismatic leader can sway public opinion sufficiently to pull congress around. Reagan, and even Slick Willie to a certain extent, shows how the system can work. Unfortunately, if you put a numbskull like Dubya or a fallen messiah like Obama in the position, things tend to go nowhere fast.

So, to answer your question, this election doesn't really matter at face value since neither candidate has the chops to drag congress down a teflon slope. That said, the choice America makes will give some guidance to the real "movers-n-shakers" about the general direction they can safely move, particularly as it relates to the deficit/debt.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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November 5th, 2012, 16:46
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
System is even more of a joke than ours is.

As for where the power lies, that's never been much of a mystery. But it doesn't take much insight into the human psyche to recognise that Obama is about a million times better for the people - despite being limited by a competely corrupt system.
Meh, they are both compromised by the political machines that have nominated them. Romney did fine as a governor (granted so did Bush). He probably won't be worse than a community organizer who's qualifications amount to less than two full years in the Senate when people started pumping him for President.

Add in the comments Obama has said to foreign leaders about 'having more flexibility after the election' and I'd rather have a first termer unknown than a second term Obama. There is little more dangerous than a politician not facing re-election.

That said, I'll be voting for Gary Johnson (Libertarian). If I wasn't disgusted enough to go 3rd party before the debates (I was), I sure as hell am after watching those two frauds not answer a single question directly.

Anyone that votes Romney or Obama (or for a Republican or Democrat in any race) is simply part of the problem.

————————————————-

"Ya'll can go to HELL! I'm-a-goin' to TEXAS!"

- Davy Crockett
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November 5th, 2012, 17:06
Originally Posted by blatantninja View Post
That said, I'll be voting for Gary Johnson (Libertarian). If I wasn't disgusted enough to go 3rd party before the debates (I was), I sure as hell am after watching those two frauds not answer a single question directly.
I feel the same way.

What's more, I'm disgusted by the "throwing your vote away" argument when it comes to voting for a third party candidate. It epitomizes the apathetic and cynical "nothing will ever change" mentality of the populace that is just as much a problem as is the cyclical viewpoint of any pandering politician. The two-party electoral college system needs to be tossed out along with all the power-mongers at its reins - but how will that ever come to pass if voters don't speak up.
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November 5th, 2012, 17:09
Thing is, the libertarians get lots of things right but get a couple of them really, really wrong (wildly isolationist policy and the gold standard). Hard to cast that vote.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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November 5th, 2012, 17:16
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Thing is, the libertarians get lots of things right but get a couple of them really, really wrong (wildly isolationist policy and the gold standard). Hard to cast that vote.
And that is why you fail!

I don't believe a third party candidate will get elected in the next few decades, but what they CAN do is gather enough votes to scare the hell out of the Democrats and Republicans. The Republican party got so scared by Perot and the Reform party in '92, that they got their shit straight, put a bunch of really good candidates up, took back congress for the first time in forever, and for the most part did a pretty solid job until they all started taking their self-term-limits seriously.

The only thing that is going to straighten out either party is a credible threat to their power.

And even if Johnson got elected, being wildly isolationist simply isn't feasible. He'd never pull it off and would have to compromise. Same thing with the Gold Standard. It would never work in a modern economy, but the compromise that would have to be made would be a hell of a lot better than what we have now.

The Democrats and Republicans both have platforms that they get wildly wrong too, yet you seem willing to vote for one of them.

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- Davy Crockett
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November 5th, 2012, 17:31
Relevant article popped up:
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/o…-election.html
Instead, it is on the right—to use the term loosely—where the Fringe Undecideds may be kingmakers, if the race is close enough. These are libertarian voters who find themselves unexcited about Romney but horrified of the possibility of a second term for Obama. Their man this year is Gary Johnson, a two-term Republican governor of New Mexico who left the GOP and became the presidential nominee of the Libertarian Party.
"It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it," wrote David Boaz, the executive vice president of the libertarian Cato Institute, in his response to the survey.

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November 5th, 2012, 17:44
Actually, it's already decided.

http://news.yahoo.com/redskins-rule-…231919022.html

Hard to believe anything could hinge on the Deadskins.

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November 5th, 2012, 17:45
Link isn't working, but I agree with the quotes.

————————————————-

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- Davy Crockett
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November 5th, 2012, 17:51
I don't know why Yahoo links fail for me now. I put it in the browser window, copy-n-paste the address. Should be golden.
Let's try this.

It's a native Yahoo article, too, so I can't go for a direct link.

edit- Ah, I see the problem. Yahoo uses a double-dash at the end, but it's getting replaced with a "long dash". Even when I manually correct it, it gets overwritten. Hmm, will have to see what I can do.

edit2- When you click the link, it puts it into the browser addy line with the "long dash". If you do a manual correction there, it works. I can't seem to make the link protected against the substitution.

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November 5th, 2012, 19:03
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
You might gain some understanding if you trade some of your "human psyche" insight for "basic accounting" insight. After all, the Euro "human psyche" model has proven to be successful and sustainable. Well, excepting Greece. And Spain. And Ireland. And Portugal. And Italy…
And maybe France, too?

http://news.yahoo.com/france-readies…-business.html (link suffers the "double dash" problem)

The weekly Le Point reported, without citing its sources, that government plans, as a compromise, to offer temporary tax credits from next year to companies keeping jobs in France that would eventually add up to 20 billion euros.
It would balance that with public spending cuts and a tiny rise in value-added tax to 20 percent from 19.6 percent.
"We cannot simultaneously restore public finances and impose a competitiveness shock - a massive and immediate transfer of employer payroll taxes onto taxes," said a government source.

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November 5th, 2012, 21:37
Originally Posted by blatantninja View Post
Anyone that votes Romney or Obama (or for a Republican or Democrat in any race) is simply part of the problem.
I'm looking at the more log term implications of having Romney nominate more rightwing activist judges like Scalia and his lap dog Thomas who put corporate interests above that of individuals and nation. The most important thing in this election is that Romney needs to be denied that opportunity.
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November 5th, 2012, 22:01
A valid point, although you do realize that the Supreme Court is currently 5-4 in favor of liberals, right? I don't believe any of the justices are primed to retire/die in the next few years, either.

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November 5th, 2012, 22:06
Yet Citizen's United went through just fine. No, the Supreme Court is not in favor of liberals.
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November 5th, 2012, 22:09
Why we can't vote online is baffling … I can do my banking online, submit my taxes online, do everything online but this.

Our election process is disappointing. I'd also prefer to drop electoral vote system and let the people decide. Whomever gets the most wins.
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November 5th, 2012, 22:23
Originally Posted by Toff View Post
Why we can't vote online is baffling … I can do my banking online, submit my taxes online, do everything online but this.

Our election process is disappointing. I'd also prefer to drop electoral vote system and let the people decide. Whomever gets the most wins.
I live in California. We get 55 electoral votes and our population is nearly 38 million, which works out to one electoral vote per 685,000 citizens.

The total population of Wyoming is only 568,158, yet they get 3 electoral votes, equivalent to one electoral vote per 189,000 citizens.

Why do citizens of Wyoming have a greater say in determining the President?
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November 5th, 2012, 22:59
Every state gets at least two votes (for the senate, I think), then rest (for the house) are based on population, total rounded up to at least 3. No state has less than 3 (not counting DC). Take away the freebies, and the ratios match.

The idea was to squash the tyranny of the majority by giving slightly more power to smaller states. Thus each state gets 2 (actually 3) for free.
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