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Default Skyrim - Dragonborn DLC Trailer

November 6th, 2012, 15:16
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Product placement is when you take money in return for placing a product in your movie/game/whatever.

It's what I consider artistic corruption, but it's an accepted standard for big-budget productions. Such productions are already corrupted artistically, so I guess it's not a big deal.

As for "whining" - I can certainly appreciate that people don't like to wait to be able to pay for something that goes along with the product they already paid for.

It's like being punished for going with your platform of choice.

It's "free money" for Bethesda - but it's also taking a dump in the mouths of non-Xbox users.
Thank you very much. I understand now. I don't like product placement when it's too often or blunt but when done subtly in my opinion it can actually add a realism layer.
As for the "whining", I understand the unfair punishment point of view but I really think it's not enough or justifies whining.

The DLC looks really great and got me so hyped. Fortunately, I have not played Skyrim yet so when I finally get to it there will be a bunch of great additional content for my playthrough. I liked what I saw with the other DLCs but I think this one is the best looking one up to now. =D
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November 6th, 2012, 15:23
Originally Posted by arthureloi View Post
Thank you very much. I understand now. I don't like product placement when it's too often or blunt but when done subtly in my opinion it can actually add a realism layer.
As for the "whining", I understand the unfair punishment point of view but I really think it's not enough or justifies whining.

The DLC looks really great and got me so hyped. Fortunately, I have not played Skyrim yet so when I finally get to it there will be a bunch of great additional content for my playthrough. I liked what I saw with the other DLCs but I think this one is the best looking one up to now. =D
Yes it looks great, but it's not free. It has a substantial price point - so it's not like they're doing us a favor by selling it.

It's a mutually beneficial exchange - and they've simply chosen exclusivity to the detriment of non-Xbox users.

I'm not sure whining needs to be justified or if that's really what we're talking about. But I can certainly sympathise with the dissatisfaction.
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November 6th, 2012, 16:19
I don't mind the exclusivity so much, but I think the timing is an epic fail on Bethesda's part. Dec 4th will be great for Xbox Christmas season, but the PC version sold more copies than the Xbox, if I'm interpreting the Steam data correctly. The PC version will be after Christmas, and many folks are low on cash in January. This will also fudge sales to make it look like PC users aren't as interested in the DLC as Xbox users. The marketing head of Bethesda is being abused by the smarter marketing folks at Microsoft. I can't figure out how releasing the PC version after Christmas is in Bethesda's best interests. That exclusivity contract might be massive dollars though, so it might pay off. Only Pete Hines and company knows, and they're not telling
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November 6th, 2012, 16:23
To me, this "exclusivity" thing appears to be an american phenomenon.
I really don't know it from Germany, for example. Exclusive items really aren't that common here (as uncommon as the credit card, by the way). Exclusives just aren't there.

So, from my perspective, I really don't quite undetstand all of this "exclusivity" thing. Really. What kind of use does it have ? I really can't understand.

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November 6th, 2012, 16:24
Something once again exclusive first to the Xbox = something I won't have to buy at all. It's really hard to believe that Skyrim has been out a year now, with no real expansion. What a terrible fumble on a decent game.


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November 6th, 2012, 16:28
I guess that they have a contract that they MUST give out ANYTHING on the XBOX FIRST, or they won't be allowed to publish on that platform at all.
Microsoft is driving/steering them.

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November 6th, 2012, 16:40
And if more people buy the game on XBox than any other system anyway then it doesn't hurt the majority. As sad as it is, we paying PC gamers have got to get used to the idea that we are a minority market and companies are more likely to act in the best interests of the majority. Much as I dislike exclusivity, if it means that they have funding for more expansions/DLC/future games than they would otherwise then it probably is better for the majority.
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November 6th, 2012, 16:56
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
To me, this "exclusivity" thing appears to be an american phenomenon.
I really don't know it from Germany, for example. Exclusive items really aren't that common here (as uncommon as the credit card, by the way). Exclusives just aren't there.

So, from my perspective, I really don't quite undetstand all of this "exclusivity" thing. Really. What kind of use does it have ? I really can't understand.
That's the exact point I was hoping to reach.

I like to investigate other cultures and their differences. Here in my country this exclusivity thing has no impact at all too.

I was wondering why some people stay for weeks on a line to be the first to experience the new apple first hand, the new ipod, nintendo wii u, windows 8 etc.

Interestingly (for example, with new games or operating systems), these behaviors baffle me even more because these applications always need a good time before they mature and get to a good working versions with fixes and patches.

I wanted to know if this is a country specific phenomenon (and if so, why?). Additionally, I wanted to discover if the complaining about the game or DLC or whatever launching exclusively for one platform (for a limited time) was a derived behavior from that phenomenon. I can understand being mad about the not releasing on your platform of choice, but this case is just a temporary exclusive window.
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November 6th, 2012, 17:10
Originally Posted by arthureloi View Post
Can anybody explain me what is wrong with limited time platform exclusivity?
I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with it. But in our Veruca Salt era of 'I want it right now' I think it really pisses a lot of people off.

I'm from the days when most everything was permanently exclusive to the platform you owned. You owned an Atari 2600 sorry but you were never going to play AD&D: Treasure of Tarmin. If you owned a Colecovision, you would never have the pleasure of playing ET on the Atari 2600

So 'exclusivity' periods wash right over me. I think the only way I could get agitated by an 'exclusivity' period is if I really wanted to play the game but was expected to die before it would be released on the platform I have.

If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?
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November 6th, 2012, 17:22
Exclusive deals don't bother me at all. I am just happy the PC still gets some great games these days. I have more then enough things in life to keep me busy that waiting an extra X days to get an add-on isn't a huge deal.

I do dislike product placement immensely unless it is very subtle and fits the game 100%. For example playing The Secret World and seeing an advertisement for something in real life would make some sense as long as it was done well.

Oh and I am very excited for this DLC Skyrim has pretty much become my all time favorite game, bumping BG and DAO to second and third place.

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November 6th, 2012, 17:23
Originally Posted by arthureloi View Post
That's the exact point I was hoping to reach.

I like to investigate other cultures and their differences. Here in my country this exclusivity thing has no impact at all too.

I was wondering why some people stay for weeks on a line to be the first to experience the new apple first hand, the new ipod, nintendo wii u, windows 8 etc.

Interestingly (for example, with new games or operating systems), these behaviors baffle me even more because these applications always need a good time before they mature and get to a good working versions with fixes and patches.

I wanted to know if this is a country specific phenomenon (and if so, why?). Additionally, I wanted to discover if the complaining about the game or DLC or whatever launching exclusively for one platform (for a limited time) was a derived behavior from that phenomenon. I can understand being mad about the not releasing on your platform of choice, but this case is just a temporary exclusive window.
Do you seriously mean to suggest you don't understand the concept of impatience?

Have you never wanted something so badly that you didn't want to wait?

In this case - some people are getting it much sooner - while the rest have to wait for it.

It's an exceedingly simple concept that's hardly worthy of much study.

Personally, I'm in no hurry to get this DLC for Skyrim, because I've already played it and I'm waiting for the mods to mature and all DLC to be released. But I have no issue comprehending that my case is for me, and other people are different from myself. Some people really love Skyrim and they want everything as soon as possible.

I think exclusivity is an anti-consumer business concept that's all about greed. As for whether they have "more money" available for other things - we have no idea what kind of money they'd need for their next thing or how they invest them. The profit from this exclusivity deal with Microsoft could go directly to hookers and hamburgers for all we know. If we go along with everything that gets more money into the hands of publishers - expecting that to result in better games, then we're being pretty blind to the reality of the current industry standard.

If that was the case, then we'd see a very, very different kind of game as the norm today.

In any case, selling 10 million copies of Skyrim should be enough to get them rolling on the next project, I'd say. Exclusivity on top of that is just tasteless opportunism. Having a gold mine like TES means you can afford to care about your consumers.
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November 6th, 2012, 17:45
Oh, if I want something, I'll gladly buy it….but if you offend me, if your sales concept is so inept that you'll drive off a very loyal PC user, you risk losing me for life. I'll take my money elsewhere, and hell, even if you give it away for free later, I'll NEVER play the damn thing simply on general principle alone. The PC should always be at least on even ground, if not outright first. I think these console companies often forget where they'd be without PC's in the first place.


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November 6th, 2012, 18:01
I'm personally happy the xbox players get to be guinea pigs for all the bugs again. PC users beta the patches, xboxers beta the DLCs.
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November 6th, 2012, 18:53
Limited time X-box exclusive? *Looks at backlog* Not a problem!
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November 6th, 2012, 19:16
Originally Posted by azarhal View Post
I'm personally happy the xbox players get to be guinea pigs for all the bugs again. PC users beta the patches, xboxers beta the DLCs.
Does Bethesda fix most of the bugs found? They certainly haven't for the main game.
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November 6th, 2012, 19:38
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Does Bethesda fix most of the bugs found? They certainly haven't for the main game.
They probably fix the urgent ones (save corruptions, major crashing, etc).
Examples:
patch 1.8 is still in beta, but it had a new build number last week.
Heartfire was called a beta when released on the xbox with the PC release being the "official release".

Heartfire still have a lots of bugs that will probably never be fixed on consoles. PC users have really nice modders to take care of this. Some people should probably ask $$ from Bethesda for all the time they put into fixing their games.
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November 6th, 2012, 20:33
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Do you seriously mean to suggest you don't understand the concept of impatience?

Have you never wanted something so badly that you didn't want to wait?

In this case - some people are getting it much sooner - while the rest have to wait for it.

It's an exceedingly simple concept that's hardly worthy of much study.

Personally, I'm in no hurry to get this DLC for Skyrim, because I've already played it and I'm waiting for the mods to mature and all DLC to be released. But I have no issue comprehending that my case is for me, and other people are different from myself. Some people really love Skyrim and they want everything as soon as possible.

I think exclusivity is an anti-consumer business concept that's all about greed. As for whether they have "more money" available for other things - we have no idea what kind of money they'd need for their next thing or how they invest them. The profit from this exclusivity deal with Microsoft could go directly to hookers and hamburgers for all we know. If we go along with everything that gets more money into the hands of publishers - expecting that to result in better games, then we're being pretty blind to the reality of the current industry standard.

If that was the case, then we'd see a very, very different kind of game as the norm today.

In any case, selling 10 million copies of Skyrim should be enough to get them rolling on the next project, I'd say. Exclusivity on top of that is just tasteless opportunism. Having a gold mine like TES means you can afford to care about your consumers.
That much impatience is pretty much alien to me. I`m a patient person, yes. But above that I`m very busy so those things really don`t grasp my awareness.
The last time I had to deal with that was when Rocksmith came out.. I don`t have an Xbox or Playstation so I had to wait more than a year from the promised release date for that game on PC even though I was VERY hyped. But it was no big deal, I had so much alternative stuff to do and take care of that I just shrugged it.

As for the opportunism and greed topic - I`ve observed that the more publishers and game companies earn the less they respect their consumers. I think losing consumers is a much bigger blow to a small indie developer than it is to, let`s say, EA or Ubisoft or Bethesda.
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November 6th, 2012, 20:39
Originally Posted by Carnifex View Post
Oh, if I want something, I'll gladly buy it….but if you offend me, if your sales concept is so inept that you'll drive off a very loyal PC user, you risk losing me for life. I'll take my money elsewhere, and hell, even if you give it away for free later, I'll NEVER play the damn thing simply on general principle alone. The PC should always be at least on even ground, if not outright first. I think these console companies often forget where they'd be without PC's in the first place.


-Carn
In the case of Skyrim, I don't think Bethesda is ignoring PC users - certainly they have invested quite a lot into supporting mod authors.

There is simply no big electronics conglomerate with a stake in PC gaming willing to invest in the kinds of co-op advertising that Microsoft is willing to do, or invest in financing PC exclusive games the way Sony does with the PS3.

If Razr, Nvidia or some PC manufacturer was willing to support PC gaming this way, we might see some PC exclusive windows, etc., but it's never going to happen.
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November 6th, 2012, 20:53
The hassle of reinstalling Skyrim and it's multitude of patches is a consideration. At least it's much easier than ME1/2. I swear to never go through that again. Talk about disposable games…
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November 7th, 2012, 01:33
Ahem, Gothic 3.

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