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Default 6NOV: The Apocolypse Cometh

November 7th, 2012, 22:02
Wow such a long thread… I am glad of the outcome of the election at least.

D.s. Thrasher I think you're having one discussion you'll not win considering Ninjas knowledge on the subject.
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November 7th, 2012, 22:03
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
The fact that they weren't even willing to try and compromise I think would be the most serious concern for any rating organization. If you don't even try, then it's impossible. Worst case, really.
Look, I'm not trying to be an ass, but you have nothing really to base that on. That's not how they work. If the compromise at the time was the issue, they would have dropped the ratings much farther as the ratings are supposed to represent the near termness of a possible default. If they were concerned that in the next year or two, the US was going to default, they wouldn't have been able to keep the rating above single B.

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November 7th, 2012, 22:49
Really? Not willing to compromise has nothing to do with coming up with a plan that people will approve and have a chance of solving the problem? That makes no sense whatsoever. No wonder this industry is so fucked up.
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November 8th, 2012, 09:20
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Ah, the "Blame Bush" meme. Good to see it's alive and well. Funny, not only has the nation NOT made progress from "the troubles", it's actually gotten worse by numerous measures (debt, unemployment, population in poverty, food stamp allocations, among others). How long does Obummer get a free pass?
How would you expect it to get better, exactly? Are you aware of the global financial crisis ON TOP of the extreme debt left behind by that moron puppet Bush?

What are you expecting from a president? Magic tricks? Maybe if you give him a little more time - he might surprise you.
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November 8th, 2012, 17:29
Well, DArt, I hate to repeat myself, but it seems like it's necessary.

Funny, not only has the nation NOT made progress from "the troubles", it's actually gotten worse by numerous measures (debt, unemployment, population in poverty, food stamp allocations, among others). How long does Obummer get a free pass?

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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November 8th, 2012, 17:50
Well, if you compare U.S. to most other countries it has actually been doing comparatively well lately. To be in deep debt and near a fiscal cliff is normal.

On top of that Obama is saying WE as a nation. Will Romney was saying WE and THEM… WE is what is needed in any country IMHO.
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November 8th, 2012, 18:02
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Well, DArt, I hate to repeat myself, but it seems like it's necessary.

Funny, not only has the nation NOT made progress from "the troubles", it's actually gotten worse by numerous measures (debt, unemployment, population in poverty, food stamp allocations, among others). How long does Obummer get a free pass?
What a surprise.

Let me put it another way - that you might just understand. Let's say you're jumping out of a plane without a parachute. You know? That's what Bush did. Then Obama takes over and he HAS got a parachute. So he pulls the string and it unfolds. But, guess what, it's STILL descending - because he has to land first and it's impossible to stop the descent now that the plane is gone. However, the rate of descent has lessened.

Get it?
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November 8th, 2012, 18:07
Unemployment is worse now than when Obummer first took office. That's a statistical fact. In real terms, the situation is worse than the numbers show because people have stopped even looking for work, which takes them off the unemployment rolls. So, reported numbers worse, reality even worse than the numbers.

Debt is worse. Obummer and his democrat cronies have added more to the national debt in 3.5 years than Dubya (who spent like a drunken sailor) racked up in 8 years. That's a statistical fact.

The percentage of US citizens living in poverty has increased since Obummer's first day in office. That's a statistical fact.

It goes on and on. I'll buy into the explanation that Obummer was handed a complete mess and even that it takes time to fix such a mess. How long? How long can Obummer use the "Blame Bush" excuse to cover up the statistical fact that things have NOT gotten better under 4 years of his so-called leadership?

As for WE as a nation, I don't hear much of that. All I hear is a lot of class warfare and populist dogma. That's not WE.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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November 8th, 2012, 18:09
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Unemployment is worse now than when Obummer first took office. That's a statistical fact. In real terms, the situation is worse than the numbers show because people have stopped even looking for work, which takes them off the unemployment rolls. So, reported numbers worse, reality even worse than the numbers.

Debt is worse. Obummer and his democrat cronies have added more to the national debt in 3.5 years than Dubya (who spent like a drunken sailor) racked up in 8 years. That's a statistical fact.

The percentage of US citizens living in poverty has increased since Obummer's first day in office. That's a statistical fact.

It goes on and on. I'll buy into the explanation that Obummer was handed a complete mess and even that it takes time to fix such a mess. How long? How long can Obummer use the "Blame Bush" excuse to cover up the statistical fact that things have NOT gotten better under 4 years of his so-called leadership?

As for WE as a nation, I don't hear much of that. All I hear is a lot of class warfare and populist dogma. That's not WE.
Ok, I did my best.

I thought my plane analogy was simple enough for you to understand that worse can actually be an improvement in itself.

Not that I'm in shock - but I don't know if I can make it any simpler for you.

If you really think Obama has increased the rate of descent since Bush - well, then there's not much I can do.

I don't know if you've forgotten - but Bush didn't just do a bad job. He almost literally took America and jumped out of a plane.

Now, Obama is supposed to not only have stopped the damage, but reversed it in just 4 years?

You've got to be kidding.
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November 8th, 2012, 18:11
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
How would you expect it to get better, exactly? Are you aware of the global financial crisis ON TOP of the extreme debt left behind by that moron puppet Bush?

What are you expecting from a president? Magic tricks? Maybe if you give him a little more time - he might surprise you.
So if Obama doesn't have the power to fix it all by himself, what makes you think that 'moron puppet Bush' had the power to cause it all by himself?

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November 8th, 2012, 18:12
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
Well, if you compare U.S. to most other countries it has actually been doing comparatively well lately.
The prettiest turd is still a turd.

To be in deep debt and near a fiscal cliff is normal.
Maybe for you, not for the US.

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November 8th, 2012, 18:13
Originally Posted by blatantninja View Post
So if Obama doesn't have the power to fix it all by himself, what makes you think that 'moron puppet Bush' had the power to cause it all by himself?
It's not about having the power to do the work all alone - but to get it started through what means are available.

Bush was, literally, a moron. Which means he was an incredibly convenient puppet. Obama is a very smart man - and he makes for a much less convenient puppet.
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November 8th, 2012, 18:18
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
What a surprise.

Let me put it another way - that you might just understand. Let's say you're jumping out of a plane without a parachute. You know? That's what Bush did. Then Obama takes over and he HAS got a parachute. So he pulls the string and it unfolds. But, guess what, it's STILL descending - because he has to land first and it's impossible to stop the descent now that the plane is gone. However, the rate of descent has lessened.

Get it?
How long? How long? How long? It's such a simple question. If we take your logic and extend it, we could excuse everything since the Great Depression, so obviously there's a problem with the approach. Similarly, the absence of abject failure does not equal success, and in this case we don't even have such an absence.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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November 8th, 2012, 18:19
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
How long? How long? How long? It's such a simple question. If we take your logic and extend it, we could excuse everything since the Great Depression, so obviously there's a problem with the approach. Similarly, the absence of abject failure does not equal success, and in this case we don't even have such an absence.
I'm the one asking how long you're willing to give him. Apparently, you think that after 4 years - he should have reversed the damage completely, right?

I don't live in the US - so I'm hardly the right person to ask how long Obama should get.

But I'll tell you one thing - and that is that when I hear Obama speak - my immediate reaction based on my understanding of human nature, is that he's not only extremely smart, he's also one of the most rare of breeds. A politician with actual integrity.

If that's not worth another chance… I don't know what is.

He's a keeper.
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November 8th, 2012, 18:22
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
If you really think Obama has increased the rate of descent since Bush - well, then there's not much I can do.
Obummer has added more to the national debt in 3.5 years than Dubya added in 8 years. If you can't see that is a clear INCREASE in the rate of descent - well, then there's no much I can do.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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November 8th, 2012, 18:24
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Obummer has added more to the national debt in 3.5 years than Dubya added in 8 years. If you can't see that is a clear INCREASE in the rate of descent - well, then there's no much I can do.
National debt = every combined effort to you? That's the entirety of the combined descent?

You need to appreciate the nature of acceleration to understand that a bigger number during any given time isn't necessarily the result of a higher rate of acceleration - and can very easily exist even at a much slower rate. It depends on the curve. Again, the global financial crisis didn't exactly arrive at a time convenient to when Obama took office. You really think that's fair to disregard when looking at your simplistic debt numbers?

This is a brilliant example of how so many people have such limited capacity to look at the bigger picture.

They think in the simplest of terms. Oh - bigger numbers! Larger debt!

Sigh….
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November 8th, 2012, 18:27
Lol! Maybe if Congress actually would actually do something useful rather than focus on apposing him along with stupid congressional investigations we may be further out of the hole. Bush had the "advantage" of a cooperative congress and look at the damage he was able to accomplish. Just think of the good that could be done if Obama had the same.
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November 8th, 2012, 18:31
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Obummer has added more to the national debt in 3.5 years than Dubya added in 8 years. If you can't see that is a clear INCREASE in the rate of descent - well, then there's no much I can do.
Yes due to the shitty economy and Bush tax cuts, which Bush didn't start with but handed over gladly.
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November 8th, 2012, 18:31
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
But I'll tell you one thing - and that is that when I hear Obama speak - my immediate reaction based on my understanding of human nature, is that he's not only extremely smart, he's also one of the most rare of breeds. A politician with actual integrity.

Lol. That's his gift. His charisma fools you into overlooking the divisive crap he spews. It's why I voted for him in '08 - that same charisma that blinded me into thinking some high-minded, idealistic, and abstract call for CHANGE would ever amount to anything

You want integrity, look to Ron Paul - that guy doesn't change what he says based on polling numbers and party stances. If he had had half of Obama's ability for speeches, we wouldn't be having a discussion about Obama's successful re-election. Or maybe we still would - I swear, the general population is so ignorant when it comes to issues that it is far too susceptible to lies and deceit.
Last edited by Drithius; November 8th, 2012 at 19:01.
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November 8th, 2012, 18:34
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
National debt = every combined effort to you? That's the entirety of the combined descent?
Now you're trying to be an ass. I listed 5 statistics from a laundry list of similar numbers demonstrating anywhere from lack of stabilization to increased descent. I typed them all out more than once, even. I'm tired of typing the same numbers over and over, so I only typed one of them this time and you're claiming that the entirety? That's pretty sorry.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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