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Default 6NOV: The Apocolypse Cometh

November 8th, 2012, 18:36
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
Lol. That's his gift. His charisma fools you into overlooking the divisive crap he spews. It's why I voted for him in '08 - that same charisma that blinded me into thinking some high-minded, idealistic, and abstract call for CHANGE would ever to anything

You want integrity, look to Ron Paul - that guy doesn't change what he says based on polling numbers. If he had had half of Obama's ability to swindle voters, we wouldn't be having a discussion about Obama's successful re-election.
I'm sorry, but your opinion of Obama doesn't change anything for me at all. I don't have the slightest of doubts that he's a very smart man with a lot of integrity. That doesn't mean he's excluded from the horrors of political corruption and the absolute travesty of American standards.

He's part of a system that demands constant compromise of values. No one can take part in it without compromising.
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November 8th, 2012, 18:36
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
Now you're trying to be an ass. I listed 5 statistics from a laundry list of similar numbers demonstrating anywhere from lack of stabilization to increased descent. I typed them all out more than once, even. I'm tired of typing the same numbers over and over, so I only typed one of them this time and you're claiming that the entirety? That's pretty sorry.
I'd like to stick to what you write in response to me. I don't follow your every word in every thread.
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November 8th, 2012, 19:02
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I'm sorry, but your opinion of Obama doesn't change anything for me at all.
And that's why arguing political convictions online will always be a waste of time
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November 8th, 2012, 19:04
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
His charisma fools you into overlooking the divisive crap he spews.
Divisive? Have any examples? He tells the truth more often than most politicians, sometimes unvarnished, and I find that kind of honesty refreshing. Of course, the other side hates it when you catch them with their pants down. If that's divisive, then maybe the other side should start treating with him honesty, rather than their own divisive hate (which is clearly a not so shallow buried residual racism).
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November 8th, 2012, 19:04
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
And that's why arguing political convictions online will always be a waste of time
Not necessarily. It can be entertaining - and on rare occasions, minds can actually start to change. It's all about being open and the other part being convincing.

I'm not claiming to be either, by the way
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November 8th, 2012, 19:09
Not only that it gives us a rare view into the warped thinking (if one could call it "thinking") of the other side. It's quite educational.
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November 8th, 2012, 19:13
This "other side" you speak of, it's fallacious. Just because political institutions have been set up to polarize everything as black & white, doesn't mean there aren't a variety of perspectives.
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November 8th, 2012, 19:15
I am talking more about those whose views seem diametrically apposed to the truth. But yeah, there are views along the whole spectrum. But those that are closer to your own aren't as educational.
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November 8th, 2012, 19:17
But to immediately deem one's own opinions as truth is arrogant. Red or Blue, everything is half truths for me.

Except maybe for evangelical rednecks. And Honey Boo Boo.
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November 8th, 2012, 19:19
No one is claiming to have truth as an opinion here. Reading comprehension please.

Oh, and it's seemingly "opposed" to the truth - not apposed
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November 8th, 2012, 19:23
Ah well, facts I should have said rather than truth. I am not claiming my opinions are truth. But facts are truth. I am totally amazed when people's opinions are completely contrary to proven facts. There is definitely some sort of brainwashing or denial going on.
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November 8th, 2012, 19:25
Facts are only truth as far as we can etablish truth - which will depend on point of view.

Also, facts can be used to support completely opposing viewpoints - so they can be of limited use for the purpose of establishing any kind of useful truth.
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November 8th, 2012, 20:34
No. That's utter and complete bullshit. Facts are facts. No point of view is relevant, except in the testing….

Another way to think about it is that a statement that is a fact is true from all points of view.
Last edited by Thrasher; November 8th, 2012 at 20:46.
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November 8th, 2012, 20:44
It's bullshit to you, I don't doubt that.
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November 8th, 2012, 20:48
And to everyone who lives in the real world as well.
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November 8th, 2012, 20:49
The real world as you understand it, sure.
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November 8th, 2012, 21:03
No, the real world that most people reside.
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November 8th, 2012, 21:31
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/r…-election.html
(link will suffer from long dash substitution problem)

"Two obvious lessons so far: It's a different country demographically. And mediocre candidates lose elections,"
According to early data from Election Day, a whopping 75 percent of Latino voters voted for President Barack Obama, an increase from 2008, when the group chose Obama over Sen. John McCain 67 to 31 percent. Obama was also successful among Asian-American voters, who supported the president over Mitt Romney 73 to 26 percent. As expected, Obama won more than 90 percent of the black vote.

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November 8th, 2012, 21:36
Yeah I've been hearing and reading that in the news for the past couple of days. Of course, alienating 45% by calling them mooches was a pretty good way to kill your campaign, too. The guy tried to be everything to everyone and failed by being nothing to anyone.

EDIT: interesting statistic. Bush got 45% of the Latino vote. I think this trend away from ethnic minorities is a direct side effect of extremists taking control of the party. The party is basically committing hari kari by pandering to their most base base.
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November 8th, 2012, 22:56
I have come to a simple conclusion based off TV/paper and various internet forums.

People under thirty are heavily influenced by both an education system and a media-driven pop culture that literally shoves liberalism down their throats and vilifies conservative ideas at every turn. When you engage them, it's clear they don't even attempt to understand the issues beyond parroting whatever they heard.

When they talk about Obama you get the sense they're talking about their favorite guy on American Idol. To them supporting Democrats against Republicans has become like rooting for their hometown team against their arch-rivals. It's constantly drilled into their heads that the Democrats are 'cool' and 'compassionate' while Republicans are at best square and at worst the epitome of all that is evil and sinister. This message is pushed relentlessly across most of the media from films and music to sitcoms and talk shows.

In a sad way I'm reminded of the OJ Simpson trial. I remember shaking my head listening to all the pundits analyzing the prosecution's mistakes and thinking to myself that jury was never going to convict that guy even if he broke down and gave a play-by-play confession. This election obviously goes beyond just race, but the principle still holds: We simply have too many idiots who vote not based on facts and issues but out of blind, brainwashed loyalty.

Wake up and realize the entire system and both party's share the blame and responsibility for the way are current government is. And if we don't find a way to turn around this sea of stupidity, I'm afraid it'll take a monumental collapse to fix the system.

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Last edited by Couchpotato; November 8th, 2012 at 23:07.
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