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Default Diablo 3 - How the endgame failed @ PC Gamer

November 12th, 2012, 11:28
Originally Posted by Nameless one View Post
Well you said in one of your previous posts that diablo 3 can't be pirated.It obviously can(which was my initial point) there is just as you said it no demand for it.
As of right now, it can't be pirated, because it's not cracked yet. In the future, things may change.

Obviously, I'm unable to predict the future.
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November 13th, 2012, 15:16
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
As for DLC loving market - I have no idea what you're talking about.
People buying games today prefer to buy DLC over expansions*. Whether that's because of the impulse thing or otherwise I don't know.

*hence why developers make DLC rather than expansions in most cases. Obviously a slightly simplified statement, but the core fact that these businesses generally have done the right research remains - if you know better than the top guys in the industry then you should be in their jobs

Blizzard, as ever, are just doing "their thing", but then they can afford to. Expect to see old school expansion at old school pricing too.

What are you basing your insight on expansion sales on? What modern examples of AAA game expansions are we talking about?
Games like NWN2.
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November 13th, 2012, 15:28
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
People buying games today prefer to buy DLC over expansions*. Whether that's because of the impulse thing or otherwise I don't know.

*hence why developers make DLC rather than expansions in most cases. Obviously a slightly simplified statement, but the core fact that these businesses generally have done the right research remains - if you know better than the top guys in the industry then you should be in their jobs
Based on what proof, exactly? No, your personal interpretation is not proof.

Games like NWN2.
Oh, you found a single example of a game that's - at best - an AA game and several years old. So, what numbers are we talking here?
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November 13th, 2012, 15:47
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Based on what proof, exactly? No, your personal interpretation is not proof.
Based on the fact they are in their jobs, not you

Oh, you found a single example of a game that's - at best - an AA game and several years old.
Please feel free to provide some further examples of newer games, though compared to Diablo 2, it is most certainly a modern game. I'm more than happy to be corrected, what I said stands according to what I currently know.
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November 13th, 2012, 19:17
According to Dart everything is subjective, so this request for "proof" seems a bit out of character. I wouldn't take him seriously.
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November 14th, 2012, 00:40
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
People buying games today prefer to buy DLC over expansions*. Whether that's because of the impulse thing or otherwise I don't know.

*hence why developers make DLC rather than expansions in most cases. Obviously a slightly simplified statement, but the core fact that these businesses generally have done the right research remains.
I disagree. Developers are making DLC instead of expansions because it's more profitable. People are buying DLC because, in most cases, there's no expansion as an option.
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November 14th, 2012, 00:45
Yeah, that's my thinking as well. It's purely supply driven. Consumers have no choice, except not to by any new content. Which I suppose is a rather poor knob on the supply/demand curve.
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November 14th, 2012, 10:11
Originally Posted by kalniel View Post
Based on the fact they are in their jobs, not you
Ok, what proof do these people in their jobs have of DLC being what people want and not expansions?

I know you have nothing to base it on at all - but it's interesting to hear your argument.

Please feel free to provide some further examples of newer games, though compared to Diablo 2, it is most certainly a modern game. I'm more than happy to be corrected, what I said stands according to what I currently know.
My point is - exactly - that we have absolutely no way of knowing whether consumers prefer DLC over expansions. Because they haven't been given a choice. You obviously think DLC is there because that's what consumers prefer - and I say it's there because it's the most profitable way of offering content - and it has nothing to do with what consumers actually want.

Based on feedback here and a handful of other sites I visit - the vast majority of core gamers despise DLC and how it's being handled. That doesn't mean they hate all DLC that's being released - but the concept and how companies squeeze it to the last drop.

However, that's anecdotal - so it's useless.
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November 14th, 2012, 13:16
I don't understand the butthurt , i have not played D3 but i saw like 2 hours of gameplay videos , it is not that bad i mean what did people expected in an aRPG, you click at things and they die and then they drop useless crap you will never use? .
It is not that D2 was any better, most builds were meh (NO BOW AMAZON) , difficulty was over the top and most levels got just annoying , i mean just go and read the most popular builds , most points go to freaking vitality !!!!11
Personally i'd rather play Sacred U/W .
They paid $60 knowing the drill (always online and no PvP) yes they are playing for months, legendary video games that you will keep getting back for the next 10 years simply will never see the light of the day again, this thing is over.
So what more do they want?
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November 14th, 2012, 13:21
So, you don't understand the genre and you haven't played the game? Your opinion is sure to be of much use to us
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November 14th, 2012, 13:49
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I disagree. Developers are making DLC instead of expansions because it's more profitable. People are buying DLC because, in most cases, there's no expansion as an option.
I often read in game magazine forums that people would love to buy DLCs - kinda like "shut up and take my money !!"

I always shake my head over that.

I guess since Expansions become more and more rare, and DLCs more and more frequent (like a set of scales with one side going up and the other going down), I assume that younger generations are just being "trained" into buying DLCs rather than expansions.

Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction. (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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November 14th, 2012, 14:05
The primary issue with DLC is that they can offer pretty much anything and charge 1-10$ for it. It's at that price range that most people stop caring about the actual use of what they get for their investment. This makes it trivially easy to profit from - once you have a base game as a platform in place.

That's what EA means when they want to provide games as a service. It's an extremely detrimental thing for core gamers - but since the core gamers aren't calling the shots - it's a lost cause.
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November 14th, 2012, 14:10
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I disagree. Developers are making DLC instead of expansions because it's more profitable.
They're making DLC because it's cheaper to make DLC than making patches. Expansions can be more profitable than DLC, but they cost more money (and time) to make and you can't just add an expansion to a bug-o-rama game while short DLC will still work.
Skyrim is an example of this.
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November 14th, 2012, 20:05
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
I often read in game magazine forums that people would love to buy DLCs - kinda like "shut up and take my money !!"

I always shake my head over that.
Why? If I'm playing a game I love, of course I'm going to say to the developers, "shut up and take my money!" because I want more content. More content is a good thing.

I think a lot of people look at DLC as a bad thing for some odd reason. They think they are being nickle-and-dimed to death or something. But no one is breaking your arm to buy it. If you don't want the content or don't feel it's worth the money, don't buy it. But for those of us who love all the additional content we can get our hands on, DLC is a great thing.

As for DLC vs. expansions, DLC is just very popular right now. It's a trend in gaming to offer DLC. Expansions are great but really, what's the difference between 1 $30 expansion and 2 $15 DLC? Usually you will get the same amount of content from the 2 DLC combined that you would in 1 full-blown expansion anyway.

So in the end, who really cares if a game gets an expansion or a few smaller DLC? More content is more content. I'm fine with $20 DLCs like Skyrim has but I'm fine with a Shivering Isles expansion for $30 too. It just doesn't matter to me. As long as my favorite games are getting more content, I'm a happy guy .
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November 14th, 2012, 20:15
So in the end, who really cares if a game gets an expansion or a few smaller DLC? More content is more content. I'm fine with $20 DLCs like Skyrim has but I'm fine with a Shivering Isles expansion for $30 too. It just doesn't matter to me. As long as my favorite games are getting more content, I'm a happy guy .
Yeah, because 20$ Skyrim DLC represents the norm, right? It's nok like 90% of all DLC is about superfluous crap sold for 1-10$, right?

The only thing "wrong" with that is that we're no longer getting expansions. There's no reason to invest in meaty additional content when you can release weapon or costume packs that sell for 5$.

Naturally, if you don't care about meaty or meaningful additional content that integrates well into the main game - then it's not a problem.

I do care, however.

If 20$ Skyrim DLC was the norm, we wouldn't need to have this conversation - but it's not the norm and it won't be. The norm is the easy way to profit. It's human nature combined with capitalism.

You're supporting it - so congratulations.
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November 14th, 2012, 20:22
I judge it on a case by case basis.

If someone is selling a costume pack, as you say, for $5, if it doesn't interest me I don't buy it. However, if I'm really into the game and would love to have an additional costume pack, then what the heck? Why not, it's only $5. I'll buy it.

I don't see what's so inherently evil about offering content, whether it's a Skyrim $20 DLC or a $5 costume pack. If you don't want the content, don't buy it.

I'm sure there's a lot of people, a LOT, that want that $5 costume pack. If they didn't, it wouldn't exist. Someone is buying this stuff. So let them continue to buy it. It's not hurting you.

Again, I just don't see what's so bad with offering more content.
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November 14th, 2012, 20:31
No one is using the word evil here. I'm talking about the real world where real people behave like they do when presented with an opportunity to make money.

Again, the problem with DLC is that expansions are all but gone BECAUSE of DLC - and the vast majority of DLC is superfluous crap. The reason being that businesses are here to generate money - and publishers are the ones calling the shots. They don't care about giving players what they really want - if they can earn more doing something that takes little effort. Since most games are developed under publisher conditions - that's what most DLC will be like.

It's very simple.
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November 14th, 2012, 20:59
Well your outlook is very different from mine.

I just don't buy the idea that gaming companies or publishers don't care about giving players what they want. That goes directly against the idea that they are only out for money. If they want more money wouldn't it make sense to give gamers what they want then?

Like I said, someone is buying this DLC, the demand is there. It might not be you who is buying them, but they are being purchased by people. I'm sure these companies do their research and know what the majority of fans want, and then try to deliver that in their DLC.

Or maybe they are just guessing what their fans want. If that's the case, their heart is still in the right place. They are trying to please their fans in one way or another.

But whatever. I will continue enjoying my DLC and hope others can do the same!
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November 14th, 2012, 21:05
The demand for content is there, yes. But they're not obligated to provide expansions - because people have already bought the main game - and they want as much extra content as is available. What are people going to do? Stop buying extra content? No, they want what they can get. Even if informed gamers like the core segment stopped buying DLC - the casuals are calling the shots.

When people like you are so eager to support DLC as a concept, and you shrug off the lack of expansions - there really is no hope.

If you really believe DLC exists because companies genuinely think that's what people prefer - then I don't know what to say.

Suffice it to say that I don't agree

That's not to say there are no exceptions. Quality DLC exists - and Bethesda and Fallout/TES are good examples. It's just going to be very, very rare. Again, simply because it's easier to produce limited content and offer it for cheap.

It's also why you're seeing a zillion iPad/Smartphone games on the market - but only a tiny, tiny handful of them offering comparable depth to a PC game. Why make a really deep iPad game when you can make something superficial and sell it for 5$ to so many? There's no reason except artistic integrity - and THAT is one scarce commodity.
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November 14th, 2012, 21:08
Hah. Nativity. I think some of the smaller dev houses with a true love of the genre may actually care about the customers. But the big EA publishers and the houses they own are told not to. They'd rather make a ton of ripoff DLC content that is highly profitable than please us hardcore RPG fans and make less money with a quality expansion. It is very simple.
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