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Default Baldur's Gate - Enhanced Edition: Released for iPad

December 8th, 2012, 20:06
Is this coming for android?
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December 8th, 2012, 20:07
Originally Posted by vurt View Post
They're slightly overpriced, at least at release. But the build quality is fucking superb, love the feel of the ipad, it doesnt feel like cheap toy like most electronics these days and the screen is great. It's not meant to be an alternative to a computer or to serious gaming.. At least i doubt anyone would buy one to completely replace a stationary computer, it's a tablet and that's what it competes with.
I'm not just talking about tablets. Also, "quality feel" is a pointless superficial thing when you get outdated every 6-24 months. Who cares how long your iPad lasts when you're going to upgrade it with that alarming frequency.
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December 8th, 2012, 20:28
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I'm not just talking about tablets. Also, "quality feel" is a pointless superficial thing when you get outdated every 6-24 months. Who cares how long your iPad lasts when you're going to upgrade it with that alarming frequency.
Might be superficial but i still want it to be durable and have a nice feel if its something i use daily, i gladly pay for quality.

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December 8th, 2012, 20:34
Originally Posted by vurt View Post
Might be superficial but i still want it to be durable and have a nice feel if its something i use daily, i gladly pay for quality.
To each his own. I prefer to pay what things are worth in terms of pragmatic reality, but that's not always possible.
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December 8th, 2012, 20:47
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I'm not just talking about tablets. Also, "quality feel" is a pointless superficial thing when you get outdated every 6-24 months. Who cares how long your iPad lasts when you're going to upgrade it with that alarming frequency.
This is where economics comes into play - if I spent $829 for a top-end iPad 1 and sold it for $600 when the iPad 2 came out and paid another $829 for that one, and also sold it for $600 to buy the $829 iPad 3, and then repeated that for the iPad 4 … I would have spent $1500 for four top-end tablets with cellular data.

Android devices (like PCs) lack the resale value hold - they are like a car where the second you open the box the value drops by 50% (obvious exaggeration). But in terms of tablets, for $1500 you would get nowhere near the long-term value …

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December 8th, 2012, 20:49
Originally Posted by Lemonhead View Post
Is this coming for android?
"The game will also be coming to Android tablets (including the Nexus 7) at a later, yet-unannounced date."

It still isn't out for Mac, so it is obvious they are going for the money first

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December 8th, 2012, 20:54
I'm debating currently whether I should buy an iPad or an Android tablet. I was leaning towards Android but was bummed that I wouldn't get to play BG on it. To hear that BG will be out at a later date might just tip me over the edge and get an Android.
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December 8th, 2012, 20:57
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
This is where economics comes into play - if I spent $829 for a top-end iPad 1 and sold it for $600 when the iPad 2 came out and paid another $829 for that one, and also sold it for $600 to buy the $829 iPad 3, and then repeated that for the iPad 4 … I would have spent $1500 for four top-end tablets with cellular data.

Android devices (like PCs) lack the resale value hold - they are like a car where the second you open the box the value drops by 50% (obvious exaggeration). But in terms of tablets, for $1500 you would get nowhere near the long-term value …
That's an interesting scenario that's not supported by any experience of mine.

It has nothing to do with the fact that Apple products are significantly overpriced in terms of the hardware they're using.

I'm not sure why you think Android devices lack resale value - but that's not something I've heard about. Where I come from, stuff like Samsung products are very popular and I doubt they have less resale values than iPads or iPhones.

The smartphone/tablet market is in constant flux - and that means every item you buy is going to have less resale value than it would have with less frequent updates. Apple is most certainly not an exception.

Obviously, if you're biased and you WANT Apple products to somehow not be overpriced despite facts disputing that - you'll find whatever avenue to support that theory.
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December 8th, 2012, 21:13
Who would be stupid enough to pay $600 for a used, last generation, iPad?
Last edited by JDR13; December 8th, 2012 at 21:25. Reason: Grammar
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December 8th, 2012, 21:36
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Who would be stupid enough to pay $600 for a used, last generation, iPad?
My point exactly
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December 8th, 2012, 21:48
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
The smartphone/tablet market is in constant flux
This is true and extremely important - whatever we are discussing now is different than last year and next year.

And honestly, I don't think we disagree as much as you think we do.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
That's an interesting scenario that's not supported by any experience of mine.
I can only go on my own experience … and as someone who has owned short-lifecycle products (i.e. laptops, PDAs, and now smartphones and tablets) almost exclusively for ages (sold off my last desktop in 1997) I have done more than my fair share of selling devices from pretty much every maker out there. Bottom line - you will get a >50% better return on your investment on an Apple computer than anything else.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
It has nothing to do with the fact that Apple products are significantly overpriced in terms of the hardware they're using.
My problem is the word 'significant' … as a statistician it means one thing (which I agree with), but in common vernacular it tends to mean 'exorbitant'. That is part of the old and debunked 'I could build a more powerful computer for half the price with all the same components'. Um, no. Apple has the #1 quality rating, #1 service, #1 resale value for a REASON. They spend money on components that others will not.

But as I say, I agree with 'significant'. Why? Well, it is a known fact that Apple has the highest profit margins in the industry. QED.

And honestly, based on my usage - I call the iPad my 90% computer for a reason - I find the value to be tremendous for the price. There are so many ways in which the Android OS is simply 'not ready for tablet prime time' … and my bank account knows how I have tried …

BUT … I will definitely say that Apple has veered into 'significant' over-pricing territory this year in three ways:
- iPod Touch should have been $100 cheaper.
- iPad Mini should have been $249 - 279 for the base unit (but even at $329 it is the best small tablet I've ever touched)
- the $100 memory bump price is just out of control greedy … everyone else moved to $50, heck even $75 would have been better.

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I'm not sure why you think Android devices lack resale value - but that's not something I've heard about. Where I come from, stuff like Samsung products are very popular and I doubt they have less resale values than iPads or iPhones.
Samsung *phones* since 2011 have been well built and popular, and my Galaxy SIII could get great resale value (as opposed to the S2 which I despised, the S3 is really good - but I also hated the Galaxy Note 2, that went back today). Samsung tablets have sold like garbage, and therefore at resale they get a much lower % of their retail … I mean, why pay the $499 the Galaxy Tab 7.7 wanted when the Nexus 7 is $199?

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Obviously, if you're biased and you WANT Apple products to somehow not be overpriced despite facts disputing that - you'll find whatever avenue to support that theory.
No, this isn't about bias - I am not saying Apple products are 'better'. These facts are not in dispute: Apple IS the #1 rated brand for quality, service and customer loyalty.

This has a long history of being true, which has led to a history of used Apple computers selling for a greater % of original value than PCs. That is something most reasonable people would not argue.

As for how that translates in the current smartphone/tablet market … as you say the market is volatile and fast-moving, so assessing a fixed opinion is a dangerous thing. All I can go on is that over the past few years I have sold off several Apple products and also several from Motorola, HP/Palm, HTC, Samsung, ASUS, Acer and LG. And in *every* case the 'retained value' of the Apple products was higher. And in most cases … MUCH higher.

Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Who would be stupid enough to pay $600 for a used, last generation, iPad?
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
My point exactly
This crazy place called 'eBay'. Bless it's insane ability to run up prices and feed my constant gadget churn. In fact, it looks likely that I will get to pay cash for an iPhone (my first ever) to have alongside my Galaxy S3 based on selling a few things from my 'junk drawer'.

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December 8th, 2012, 22:00
Originally Posted by Lemonhead View Post
I'm debating currently whether I should buy an iPad or an Android tablet. I was leaning towards Android but was bummed that I wouldn't get to play BG on it. To hear that BG will be out at a later date might just tip me over the edge and get an Android.
I'm also going on the android bandwagon. I'm getting a Nexus 7. I'm ecstatic. BG, Max Payne Mobile and GTA 3 is what i'm looking forward to. Also, I want to check out Final Fantasy 1 & 2, and Chrono Trigger which I keep hearing a lot about.
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December 8th, 2012, 22:03
It's extremely easy to sell apple products, more so than anything else at the moment i would think..Prices can get ridiculously high at auctions sometimes, sold my ipad1 and got a really good price for it though purchasing the ipad3 just 5 months before the ipad4 was a really lousy deal for me heh.. but yeah, one of the positive things with durable products = good resell prices, people know it will be in good condition and that it won't fall apart anytime soon.

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December 8th, 2012, 22:09
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Of course it will be a hit on the iPad as there is a serious RPG drought on the device. To bad I never had the need for any apple product. Yes you read that right never bought or owned a single apple product. Not going to buy one just to try this.
I primarily use my iPad for reading technical books and trade magazines, and to check achievement guides and maps while gaming.
I don’t really game on my iPad, but I’ll pick this one up and give it a shot.

Like you, I’ve shunned Apple products for decades. I even bought a bug-ridden Android based tablet to avoid the iPad. When the iPad 3 was released, I finally broke down and bought one because I really needed that hi-res display for reading full page technical PDFs (e.g. schematics) without zooming and scrolling. Now, I can’t recommend it high enough. Excellent build quality, stable OS, fast and responsive touch screen, and an amazing display that is higher in resolution than my PC monitor. Also, consider that while iPads might be more expensive than competing products, they also retain their value longer… 1st gen iPads still sell for almost half their original price on eBay.
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December 9th, 2012, 09:59
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
This is true and extremely important - whatever we are discussing now is different than last year and next year.

And honestly, I don't think we disagree as much as you think we do.
Probably not, but still - it really does seem like you don't think Apple products are overpriced - or you're simply shrugging it off as irrelevant.

When I say overpriced, that's based on what the parts involved cost - and what you get in terms of performance and technical capability.

As for aesthetics and design - obviously, that's not something we can measure or objectively quantify.

I will concede that build quality in Apple products is superior - and I'm very happy with mine.

But since I don't resell things and I don't keep outdated stuff - that's irrelevant to me. For people who like to play the market or people who like to hold on to outdated stuff for years, there's a potential justification for some of the price.

That said, I'm still not buying that as the "real reason" some people support Apple and how they conduct themselves - and their pricing models. I think it's a desperate attempt at justifying their addiction to consumerism.

I can be guilty of that myself - but at least I can admit it

Note that I'm not talking about you, as you seem at least partially capable of admitting your rather excessive need to buy superfluous things - though you always manage to come up with some kind of "need" you want filled. Though you want an iPhone next to your S3 now? …

I can only go on my own experience … and as someone who has owned short-lifecycle products (i.e. laptops, PDAs, and now smartphones and tablets) almost exclusively for ages (sold off my last desktop in 1997) I have done more than my fair share of selling devices from pretty much every maker out there. Bottom line - you will get a >50% better return on your investment on an Apple computer than anything else.
Maybe that's a cultural thing, I don't know. That's not the pattern I'm seeing around here. Then again, Apple isn't quite as popular - and for whatever reason, Samsung in particular is especially popular.

My problem is the word 'significant' … as a statistician it means one thing (which I agree with), but in common vernacular it tends to mean 'exorbitant'. That is part of the old and debunked 'I could build a more powerful computer for half the price with all the same components'. Um, no. Apple has the #1 quality rating, #1 service, #1 resale value for a REASON. They spend money on components that others will not.
Again, I'm not talking about "quality rating" or "resale value" - and even if they're that much easier to sell, it's going to change eventually. If so, will their prices drop?

And honestly, based on my usage - I call the iPad my 90% computer for a reason - I find the value to be tremendous for the price. There are so many ways in which the Android OS is simply 'not ready for tablet prime time' … and my bank account knows how I have tried …
That's your personal perception that doesn't reflect the reality I'm living in. I don't know a SINGLE person (and I know quite a few people) with their tablet (iPad or otherwise) as their 90% computer. Not a single person. I'm not sure I've even met someone with their tablet as their 50% computer.

BUT … I will definitely say that Apple has veered into 'significant' over-pricing territory this year in three ways:
- iPod Touch should have been $100 cheaper.
- iPad Mini should have been $249 - 279 for the base unit (but even at $329 it is the best small tablet I've ever touched)
- the $100 memory bump price is just out of control greedy … everyone else moved to $50, heck even $75 would have been better.
Agreed, and I only bought the Mini because it WAS the best tablet available when you consider software availability. But I'm not really big on build quality. Obviously, I want my gadget to last the 2-3 years I intend to use it - but I don't drop these things and I don't abuse them physically

Samsung *phones* since 2011 have been well built and popular, and my Galaxy SIII could get great resale value (as opposed to the S2 which I despised, the S3 is really good - but I also hated the Galaxy Note 2, that went back today). Samsung tablets have sold like garbage, and therefore at resale they get a much lower % of their retail … I mean, why pay the $499 the Galaxy Tab 7.7 wanted when the Nexus 7 is $199?
You despised S2, yeah, but it was voted the best phone in several places. The Nexus 7 is recent - and I'm willing to bet that if it catches on (which it seems to be doing) - then you'll see similar resale value. There's a reason Apple went against Steve Jobs and released their iPad Mini.

No, this isn't about bias - I am not saying Apple products are 'better'. These facts are not in dispute: Apple IS the #1 rated brand for quality, service and customer loyalty.
Those "facts" are not what I'm calling bias on. But that's not something we want to get into here

This has a long history of being true, which has led to a history of used Apple computers selling for a greater % of original value than PCs. That is something most reasonable people would not argue.
I'm not arguing that a lot of people don't mind paying more for things than they're actually worth - but I'm not talking about computers as such. Apple can't compete with PCs on software (gaming in particular) - and their hardware is ridiculously overpriced - but I can't change that a lot of people want to buy them anyway. I used to accept it was about accessibility - but after Windows 7, that's all but an illusion. What remains is a very pleasant aesthetic design and "build quality".

As for how that translates in the current smartphone/tablet market … as you say the market is volatile and fast-moving, so assessing a fixed opinion is a dangerous thing. All I can go on is that over the past few years I have sold off several Apple products and also several from Motorola, HP/Palm, HTC, Samsung, ASUS, Acer and LG. And in *every* case the 'retained value' of the Apple products was higher. And in most cases … MUCH higher.
Unfortunately, your personal experience is not worth much when arguing against facts - which we don't seem to have here. I don't have the numbers available - so I really don't know whether resale of Samsung phones or tablets are that much lower, or resale of Nexus 7 will be that much lower. I can't see why they would, but until we have real numbers - I'm going to be sceptical. Certainly, I don't think the resale value will compensate for the significant overpricing.
Last edited by DArtagnan; December 9th, 2012 at 10:14.
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December 9th, 2012, 22:23
You bring up something important - context. My entire discussion of 'reasonable pricing' is in the context of an easily demonstrated superfluous luxury item (smartphone, tablet) compared with an ACTUALLY reasonably priced item which was the context you were bringing.

In terms of usage, I know I am an outlier, and more people use their tablets as toys than as productivity tools. But I did a challenge recently where I used the iPad almost exclusively for a month - only using the PC for gaming and the Mac for syncing my Garmin running watch … and it turned into two months, and I am still mostly using the iPad. When it comes to productivity apps, mobile gaming - and in particular music production tools the iPad is simply unmatched in a mobile OS platform. But again … I could get a Macbook Air and have more capabilities with only a slight bump in weight and loss of battery life.

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December 9th, 2012, 22:45
I went with Apple because they had the apps I wanted right now, price wasn't a factor and I new I'd get the latest OS updates unlike I did on Android.( nexus wasn't available when I got my pad)

I'm not a proud apple owner. I don't hate their product but I do hate their politics. Stop suing everyone for everything already.

I use my PC mainly for gaming so I would never consider an Ipad or any apple product for gaming. To high a cost and they don't get the game selection.

The Ipad though is rock solid and for surfing the web it's great. Although I wish it had flash but thats not only an apple problem.

It's could for business but I wish it had a good Quickbooks program but that's not an Apple exclusive problem either.

If money is a concern at all I say go nexus. If you don't care about price and just want the best then that's still the ipad for now but the nexus is closing fast. Imo.
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December 10th, 2012, 14:10
Has anyone tried it on iPhone?

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December 10th, 2012, 14:21
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
You bring up something important - context. My entire discussion of 'reasonable pricing' is in the context of an easily demonstrated superfluous luxury item (smartphone, tablet) compared with an ACTUALLY reasonably priced item which was the context you were bringing.
I'm trying to make sense of that quote, and I just can't

I'm talking about overpricing and how it applies to Apple products in general. You've given examples of why Apple might not be quite so overpriced - because they're better for resale and have a better build quality.

I, in turn, have given my reasons for being sceptical that those things can truly compensate for the overpricing - and reasons why those things certainly don't matter to me.

The context, I suppose, is about who were are - and I can understand that you have your reasons for supporting Apple that go beyond just wanting their products. You resell a lot and you care more about build quality than I do.

Right?

In terms of usage, I know I am an outlier, and more people use their tablets as toys than as productivity tools. But I did a challenge recently where I used the iPad almost exclusively for a month - only using the PC for gaming and the Mac for syncing my Garmin running watch … and it turned into two months, and I am still mostly using the iPad. When it comes to productivity apps, mobile gaming - and in particular music production tools the iPad is simply unmatched in a mobile OS platform. But again … I could get a Macbook Air and have more capabilities with only a slight bump in weight and loss of battery life.
Yeah, but does your work include stuff like writing a lot of mails and using applications at your workplace?

Because my work does - and I wouldn't be able to use an iPad for any of those things, except the mails - and that would be very impractical. So, I use a PC at work - and I could just as well use my own, which I do when I work from home. I couldn't do that on an iPad.

As for home usage - I use my computer primarily to write on forums, surf and game. I can surf perfectly on an iPad - but the other two things are completely out of the question. In terms of actual productivity - I use my PC for developing my game project - which is also impossible on an iPad.

That said, I could easily "make do" with an iPad - if I stopped doing several things, but that wouldn't be a fair reflection of my normal day.

Also, could you explain to me why you want an iPhone 5 - now that you have a Samsung Galaxy S3?
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December 10th, 2012, 14:23
Originally Posted by pibbur who View Post
Has anyone tried it on iPhone?

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Don't have one but seeing as how hard some stuff is to select on ipad(like looting monsters) I couldn't imagine trying to do it on such a tiny screen.
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