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Default Dark Souls II - What they can do to make it better @ Kotaku

December 29th, 2012, 01:39
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I'd go back to Morrowind if the issues were fixed, but they're not. There are no mods that fix the models, animations, combat system or dialogue system of Morrowind. No mods that I'm aware of, anyway.

As for Oblivion, there are some mods that fix some of the issues - and I have gone back to it for that reason. I completed it with a lot of mods a year or so ago, and it was ok. Nothing compared to Skyrim, though.



To each his own. I never liked the post-apoc setting at all - but found Fallout 3 the best implementation of it. Probably because it had the most "sci-fi" feel of them all - and I like sci-fi a lot.

Yeah, I think New Vegas is vastly inferior in terms of overall aesthetics and world design. When you add all the visual glitches and bugs - it becomes too much for me to appreciate. Which is sad, because I really liked the writing and found the story somewhat appealing - if a bit dull at times.
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Wow, for real? I've been actively looking for something like that for a long time. I asked around here several times - and I'm surprised I never heard of it before.

Sounds really interesting - and I'll definitely check it out. Thanks for enlightening me!
It is really cool. And they update a lot, very active team.

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December 29th, 2012, 01:40
Odd to see someone listing the dialogue system in Morrowind as a negative. I liked it a lot more than the simplified system of the later titles. That's probably because I don't really care about voice acting in these types of games.
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December 29th, 2012, 01:56
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Odd to see someone listing the dialogue system in Morrowind as a negative. I liked it a lot more than the simplified system of the later titles. That's probably because I don't really care about voice acting in these types of games.
Ya to me its just terrible, I want to get lost in a fantasy world. I don't want to feel like I am reading a wiki. I don't understand how people could prefer text to spoken dialogue. I want the holodeck, each step closer to that is a good step. Voice acting being a major one of those steps. Perhaps the next major step will be good synth voices, making it much easier to add massive amounts of dialogue.

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December 29th, 2012, 02:19
Originally Posted by Kefka View Post
Ya to me its just terrible, I want to get lost in a fantasy world. I don't want to feel like I am reading a wiki. I don't understand how people could prefer text to spoken dialogue. I want the holodeck, each step closer to that is a good step. Voice acting being a major one of those steps. Perhaps the next major step will be good synth voices, making it much easier to add massive amounts of dialogue.
I'd rather have more dialogue options, not less. But that's just me.

It's also kind of hard to get lost in a fantasy world when you recognize the same 7 or 8 voices being used for 100 NPCs.
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December 29th, 2012, 02:44
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Odd to see someone listing the dialogue system in Morrowind as a negative. I liked it a lot more than the simplified system of the later titles. That's probably because I don't really care about voice acting in these types of games.
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I'd rather have more dialogue options, not less. But that's just me.

It's also kind of hard to get lost in a fantasy world when you recognize the same 7 or 8 voices being used for 100 NPCs.
I do understand that, which is why I hope for the good stynth voice thing, so some day we can have as much dialog as Morrowind(which I am not even sure how much more it really had as so much was repeated, and so much was written like a book entry and not like how people actually speak, so the same thing said in writing could be naturally voice with much fewer words).

Also I know I used a mod for Oblivion that change the voices a little bit more(not a lot more, it was like adding 5 new voice actors, 3 new male and 2 females). This seem like something we have the technology for already to do on a wider scale, slightly altering every npc's voice in the game so there all different by altering pitch,tone,etc.

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December 29th, 2012, 04:55
Originally Posted by Kefka View Post
I am not even sure how much more it really had as so much was repeated, and so much was written like a book entry and not like how people actually speak, .
As if Oblivion, etc., are more realistic to how people actually speak?

But yeah, I hear what you're saying. It would be nice if every NPC could have his or her own voice. It still wouldn't make a big difference to me personally, but I know a lot of people place significant importance on voice acting.
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December 29th, 2012, 04:57
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I can probably survive you thinking that I'm making unfair and totally incorrect assessments about it until then - or I'll just have to die
Donīt get yourself killed .
Last edited by DeepO; December 29th, 2012 at 18:22.
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December 29th, 2012, 06:58
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
As if Oblivion, etc., are more realistic to how people actually speak?

But yeah, I hear what you're saying. It would be nice if every NPC could have his or her own voice. It still wouldn't make a big difference to me personally, but I know a lot of people place significant importance on voice acting.
A lot more realistic than Morrowind! I recall becoming interested in Voice acting for a bit and I did a little, I was in at least one mod by Finggerdy(?) and I did some prelim work for Morroblivion, and I was practicing some of the stuff and was amazed how awkward and bizarre is sounded, as if someone was reading a book and not actually speaking. So many more words where use than needed, very unnatural all around.

But either way in general people don't want to read people "speaking" they want to hear them speak because that is realistic, that is what people actually do. Text for major games is a thing of the past and I happy for that, games get better as time goes on(one of the reason you can't compare ratings directly with games more than a few years apart) and text was only used because the of technology limitations. Right now there are tec(or financial) limits that prevent unique voices for everyone in a games like Skyrim or Oblivion I hope in the future this will also be a thing of the past.

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December 29th, 2012, 09:43
Originally Posted by Kefka View Post
Ya to me its just terrible, I want to get lost in a fantasy world. I don't want to feel like I am reading a wiki. I don't understand how people could prefer text to spoken dialogue. I want the holodeck, each step closer to that is a good step. Voice acting being a major one of those steps. Perhaps the next major step will be good synth voices, making it much easier to add massive amounts of dialogue.
Immersion is a no go. Enough fantasy books written to tell for certain that people can reach their immersion thanks to written material.

Voice acting might serve a day if they manage to get a bot reading all the pieces.

For the moment, it is only a burden that brings limitations to designers, developpers etc

For the HF Skyrim DLC, they forgot to voice over certain women (the orcs) so they do not have all the options brought by other women when married.

Hard to patch with voices, very easy to do with text.
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December 29th, 2012, 10:22
Originally Posted by Kefka View Post
A lot more realistic than Morrowind!
No, it's not. Simply having the option to choose between 2 or 3 different replies is not more realistic.

Unless you're only talking about having voice acting vs having just text. Then it becomes a bit more subjective. As I've said before, voice acting doesn't make a significant difference to me. The main reason is because the actors used often don't match well with the look of the character. Quite often I find myself imagining a certain character sounding much differently than the voice given to him/her.

Then of course there are also the times when the voice acting is just plain bad. In either instance, I'd rather have just text and be able to use my imagination instead of having my immersion broken.


Originally Posted by Kefka View Post
But either way in general people don't want to read people "speaking" they want to hear them speak because that is realistic, that is what people actually do. Text for major games is a thing of the past and I happy for that, games get better as time goes on
Except that voice acting hasn't made games "better". That's completely subjective. Some people prefer it, some people don't. If every voice-over was done well enough to increase immersion, then yeah. That's not the reality though.
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December 29th, 2012, 11:59
I would rather good dialogue trees than Morrowind's information kiosks personally…not that Oblivion had good dialogue trees, unfortunately.

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December 29th, 2012, 12:32
I consider Morrowind and Oblivion about equal when it comes to the dialogue delivery. Morrowind is clearly deeper and more detailed - but it's also dull as dishwater and the wiki presentation is anything but immersive and screams THIS IS A DATABASE and not real dialogue. Oblivion had a much better presentation and delivery - but the dialogue and writing was mostly awful. With the notable exception of the Dark Brotherhood questline - which is what makes the entire game worth playing.

Skyrim improved this a LOT - and there's a lot more variety in voice actors. Naturally, it's not perfect - and I think the Arnold voice was a stupid mistake, albeit amusing the first couple of times.
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December 29th, 2012, 12:36
Except that voice acting hasn't made games "better". That's completely subjective. Some people prefer it, some people don't.
So, you're saying Mass Effect would work better without spoken dialogue?

Seriously, though, I think that voice acting is better when done well - and it's done well in Skyrim. It's done well in Fallout 3 and it's done well in New Vegas.

I'm not sure whether I prefer Morrowind or Oblivion - as they're about equally bad.

Sure, with voice acting, you do lose a bit of verbosity - but you get a much, much more immersive experience out of it. I'm not a big fan of too much text - and I think Torment is a good example of text dominating the experience - turning it into something other than a game. Which is fine - but such a thing is better suited for books, I think.

That's just me, though.
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December 29th, 2012, 13:09
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
So, you're saying Mass Effect would work better without spoken dialogue?
No, that's an example of a game that definitely needs voice acting. Too bad that didn't save it from being a mediocre series anyways.


Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Seriously, though, I think that voice acting is better when done well - and it's done well in Skyrim. It's done well in Fallout 3 and it's done well in New Vegas.
Eh? I'm one of the biggest defenders of FO3 around here, but the voice acting was mostly terrible.


Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Sure, with voice acting, you do lose a bit of verbosity - but you get a much, much more immersive experience out of it. I'm not a big fan of too much text - and I think Torment is a good example of text dominating the experience - turning it into something other than a game. Which is fine - but such a thing is better suited for books, I think.
Torment is obviously not a typical game and would be an extreme example. There's probably only a handful of games ever made that have that much text.

As far as immersion is concerned, sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. It's always going to be one of those subjective things.
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December 29th, 2012, 13:12
I think this thread is going way off-topic…..
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December 29th, 2012, 13:15
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
No, that's an example of a game that definitely needs voice acting. Too bad that didn't save it from being a mediocre series anyways.
Very true, the last couple of games really took it down

Eh? I'm one of the biggest defenders of FO3 around here, but the voice acting was mostly terrible.
Really? I thought it was fine. Of course, the writing was bad - but the voice acting was pretty good, if a bit out of touch with the scenes in the game. I'd place it somewhere between Oblivion and Skyrim. At least in Fallout 3 - you didn't have 8 actors being re-used over and over.

I definitely wouldn't have liked it more without voice acting.

Torment is obviously not a typical game and would be an extreme example. There's probably only a handful of games ever made that have that much text.

As far as immersion is concerned, sometimes it helps, sometimes it doesn't. It's always going to be one of those subjective things.
Certainly, but there's nothing wrong with expressing reasons behind the subjective
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December 29th, 2012, 13:24
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Certainly, but there's nothing wrong with expressing reasons behind the subjective
Most definitely. Which is why I gave specific examples of why VO don't always make a game more immersive for me.

As far as FO3 though, everytime someone mentions the voice acting, I can only think of that female shopkeeper in Megaton that literally made me cringe every time she opened her mouth.
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December 29th, 2012, 13:26
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Wow, for real? I've been actively looking for something like that for a long time. I asked around here several times - and I'm surprised I never heard of it before.

Sounds really interesting - and I'll definitely check it out. Thanks for enlightening me!
Second wow! I always wanted to try Morrowind again so downloading the mod now.
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December 29th, 2012, 13:35
Seriously, haven't you lot expressed your opinions on Morrowind and Oblivion a million times before elsewhere? Could you kindly take the conversation somewhere else and remain on topic?
Cheers.

Just a brief thank you to those that have expressed their opinions and shared their experiences with Dark Souls in this topic, particularly those that have demonstrated a strong familiarity with the game and gone into some depth regarding reactions to it. It's certainly been helpful in informing my own views in my early experiences with the game.

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December 29th, 2012, 15:45
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
As if Oblivion, etc., are more realistic to how people actually speak?

But yeah, I hear what you're saying. It would be nice if every NPC could have his or her own voice. It still wouldn't make a big difference to me personally, but I know a lot of people place significant importance on voice acting.
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
Immersion is a no go. Enough fantasy books written to tell for certain that people can reach their immersion thanks to written material.

Voice acting might serve a day if they manage to get a bot reading all the pieces.

For the moment, it is only a burden that brings limitations to designers, developpers etc

For the HF Skyrim DLC, they forgot to voice over certain women (the orcs) so they do not have all the options brought by other women when married.

Hard to patch with voices, very easy to do with text.
I don't see how you can compare the two, one is only delivered with written text, if books where so amazing and everyone thought that was the best way to experience something, there would be no point in movies or tv shows. Games are both visual and auditory and interactive. The majority of people prefer voiced dialog because it natural, you see a person and you talk to them and they talk to you, it just makes senses. Written dialog was a limitation of the times, just like black and white film or silent film, we have moved beyond that and I am very happy. I hope to further improved tec to make game experience like TES even more immersive, more like the holodeck. Perhaps one day we can have voice work and unlimited dialog, that would be awesome, but its one step at a time.

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