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Default why anyone wants an "assault rifle"

January 3rd, 2013, 18:09
No argument from me.
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January 3rd, 2013, 23:40
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Have you checked out link from Zloth's post? Fodder for my "logical swan dive" comes from there.
Well, upon further review, that article and the first page worth of reader comments attached to it only address video games. There's nothing in there about gay marriage and/or religion in there. Not a single word. I guess that nonsense came straight out of your mind.

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January 4th, 2013, 15:07
Indeed this one talks only about video games but have you missed (or are you conveniently ignoring) many statements which lay blame for Newtown schooting on rise of "godlessness" in USA?
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January 4th, 2013, 15:33
That's not what you said, Z. You need to get your story straight.

As for the whole "godlessness" angle, people seeking to understand the motivations of a trigger puller will look for something that's changed from "the good olde days when this sort of thing didn't happen" and they'll start with things that are important to them personally. I don't personally subscribe to the whole religion thing, but if treated as a code of conduct rather than a book of mysteries then it would actually be a reasonable complaint.

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January 4th, 2013, 15:38
I've been in the military, and I see no reason whatsoever why civilians should ever be allowed to get their hands on assault rifles. Anyone using them should have to go through a considerable amount of training, and I'm not just talking about the aspect of shooting one - I'm talking about how to handle one responsibly. That's part of the training you get in the military that you simply don't get by going to the shooting range.

The whole "Rambo" scenario people describe where one could be useful is a load of crap. If the government suddenly decided to act against civilians? Are you kidding me? They'd bring tanks. Assault rifles shooting at tanks have the same effect as pea shooters. You'd need rocket launchers/bazookas to defend yourself in such situations, so why not arm civilians with that? Great idea! Instead of some mad lump shooting up parts of a school, he could blow up the entire thing in one go! Why start shooting during a Batman movie when you can trash the whole building in a bang? Bigger guns, people!

As for the whole 2nd amendment thing. I hope people realize it was written over 200 years ago, at a time where the hand guns of today would've been extremely powerful. Most guns back then were single shot only, then had to be reloaded. There's a reason most soldiers back then used swords - rifles were shot once or twice, then either used in melee with a bayonet or dropped entirely in favor of a sword. Legalizing such weapons is hardly the same as assault rifles, as there's no way to perform massacres or similar with them.

Bottom line: Any weapon capable of massacres should be banned. Period. There are no self defense situations where a massacre is needed.
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January 4th, 2013, 16:08
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
I've been in the military, and I see no reason whatsoever why civilians should ever be allowed to get their hands on assault rifles. Anyone using them should have to go through a considerable amount of training, and I'm not just talking about the aspect of shooting one - I'm talking about how to handle one responsibly. That's part of the training you get in the military that you simply don't get by going to the shooting range.
I disagree with the first part of this, but agree 1000% on the training part.

The whole "Rambo" scenario people describe where one could be useful is a load of crap. If the government suddenly decided to act against civilians? Are you kidding me? They'd bring tanks. Assault rifles shooting at tanks have the same effect as pea shooters. You'd need rocket launchers/bazookas to defend yourself in such situations, so why not arm civilians with that? Great idea! Instead of some mad lump shooting up parts of a school, he could blow up the entire thing in one go! Why start shooting during a Batman movie when you can trash the whole building in a bang? Bigger guns, people!
Uhh, guess you missed what has gone on in Libya and Syria. The revolutionaires there didn't start with anything more than AK-47s and the like.

As for the whole 2nd amendment thing. I hope people realize it was written over 200 years ago, at a time where the hand guns of today would've been extremely powerful. Most guns back then were single shot only, then had to be reloaded. There's a reason most soldiers back then used swords - rifles were shot once or twice, then either used in melee with a bayonet or dropped entirely in favor of a sword. Legalizing such weapons is hardly the same as assault rifles, as there's no way to perform massacres or similar with them.
While accurate, it still doesn't belay the need for the people to be able to defend themselves from government oppression.

Bottom line: Any weapon capable of massacres should be banned. Period. There are no self defense situations where a massacre is needed.
As horrible as the various school shootings have been, the TOTAL number of people killed in them is less than what states like Texas, California, Florida, and New York see in a single year in traffic accidents. It sucks, no doubt, but lets keep it in perspective.

The American people ahve a choice - ban these weapons (not that it would really matter as has been pointed out due to the number already out there plus our pourus borders) and sacrifice our ability to defend ourselves against government tyranny or accept that the very occasional attack will occur and that is the price of defense against tyranny.

I don't trust our government, do you?

I hate to quote movies in a serious discussion, but V had it right "Governments should fear their people."

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January 4th, 2013, 16:32
Originally Posted by blatantninja View Post
I don't trust our government, do you?
I don't know about you, but I live in transparent democracy where the government is quite trustworthy, so yes I do trust them. I don't always agree with everything they do, but overall I have few complaints. The system works.
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January 4th, 2013, 16:46
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
I don't know about you, but I live in transparent democracy where the government is quite trustworthy, so yes I do trust them. I don't always agree with everything they do, but overall I have few complaints. The system works.
You must not live in the United States or Western Europe.

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January 4th, 2013, 16:51
Originally Posted by blatantninja View Post
You must not live in the United States or Western Europe.
Indeed, I live in Norway. Yes, yes, I know, our situation is somewhat special.
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January 4th, 2013, 17:12
I work for a Norwegian firm and most of the people I work with don't trust their government any more than I trust mine.

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January 4th, 2013, 17:38
Depends how you define trust. I don't know a single Norwegian who's afraid that the government would ever use weapons against civilians in Norway, or afraid that the government would somehow be deeply corrupt or similar.

I've never even heard such things mentioned by anyone other than right wing extremelists like Breivik, and they are a very small minority.
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January 4th, 2013, 17:50
Most are mainly concerned with the continued errosion of liberties and that the government is not nearly as transparent as apparently you think. They definitely have a higher level of trust of their govt than the Americans and Brits that work for us, I'll give you that.

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January 4th, 2013, 19:18
Higher level of trust? They've totally handed over the keys. Imagine this being attempted in the US:

http://news.yahoo.com/icelandic-girl…074758814.html

A 15-year-old is suing the Icelandic state for the right to legally use the name given to her by her mother. The problem? Blaer, which means "light breeze" in Icelandic, is not on a list approved by the government.

Like a handful of other countries, including Germany and Denmark, Iceland has official rules about what a baby can be named. In a country comfortable with a firm state role, most people don't question the Personal Names Register, a list of 1,712 male names and 1,853 female names that fit Icelandic grammar and pronunciation rules and that officials maintain will protect children from embarrassment.

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January 4th, 2013, 22:23
While not being able to call someone "light breeze" seems a bit gestapo to me, the US does have naming regulations as well. As most regulations, they're state based as far as I know.
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January 4th, 2013, 22:30
We have no "approved list" in any state. As long as it's not offensive (and you have to work pretty hard to meet that limit, from what I've seen), anything goes. Have you seen some of the names in the NFL?

To point, these names were allowed:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,479904,00.html
Adolf Hitler Campbell and his sisters, JoyceLynn Aryan Nation Campbell and Honszlynn Hinler Jeannie Campbell, were taken from their Holland Township, N.J., home on Friday by the state's Division of Youth and Family Services (DYFS), Sgt. John Harris of the Holland Township Police Department told FOXNews.com.

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January 4th, 2013, 22:38
This just hit Yahoo News. I wonder how the gun control nuts would try to explain yet another real world "case study" away…
http://news.yahoo.com/philippines-sh…190043649.html

While the United States has the highest per-person percentage of gun ownership in the world, according to Reuters, the Philippines has a much lower gun-ownership ratio. There are a mere 4.7 guns for every 100 Filipinos and there are 3.9 million privately licensed firearms in the Philippines. In the United States, there are 88.8 guns per 100 people and 270 million in the country, reports GunPolicy.org, a web site hosted by the Sydney School of Public Health at the University of Sydney.
Despite those numbers, the Philippines has a much higher gun-related homicide rate than the United States.
According to the most recently available data from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, there were 8.9 homicides per 100,000 people in the Pacific island archipelago in 2003, while in the United States there were 3.3 homicides per 100,000 people.
Tighter gun restrictions actually encourage illegal gun trade, Reuters notes. “With legal access denied, Filipinos simply turn to the many illegal gunsmiths who ply their trade in back alleys and on the edge of rice fields despite government crackdowns.”

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January 4th, 2013, 22:39
Are you kidding me? You can call someone Adolf Hitler? That's a bloody disgrace. Poor kid is bound to get in trouble his whole life, wherever he goes.

Edit: Also, using a poor country as comparison is flat out wrong. Poverty breeds crime, always will. Try comparing it to the nearby nation of Japan instead. Far better comparison. Japan has the tightest gun control I know of, and have managed to reduce gun related deaths to the point where it's virtually non-existent.
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January 4th, 2013, 23:15
Did you notice the list of the BEST countries to be born in? The US was not that high. Switzerland was first and AUSTRALIA second. Norway was right up there too!! These countries all have gun control!!

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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January 4th, 2013, 23:41
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Are you kidding me? You can call someone Adolf Hitler? That's a bloody disgrace. Poor kid is bound to get in trouble his whole life, wherever he goes.
I actually surprised that one got thru, but one of the prices of freedom is that there will always be idiots that abuse it.
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Edit: Also, using a poor country as comparison is flat out wrong. Poverty breeds crime, always will. Try comparing it to the nearby nation of Japan instead. Far better comparison. Japan has the tightest gun control I know of, and have managed to reduce gun related deaths to the point where it's virtually non-existent.
I'm confused. Y'all love to crow all day about how our inequality of wealth, with extreme wealth and crushing poverty living side-by-side, shows just how stupid we Americans are. But poverty can't be part of the equation where American gun violence is concerned. Can't really have it both ways.

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January 4th, 2013, 23:45
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Did you notice the list of the BEST countries to be born in? The US was not that high. Switzerland was first and AUSTRALIA second. Norway was right up there too!! These countries all have gun control!!
Given the incredibly subjective nature of "best" and the ease of emphasizing statistics that support a preconceived result while minimizing those that would refute it, I can't really put too much stock in such a study. You've also got an assumed causal (or perhaps that was a selected criteria of the study, don't know) sitting there.

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