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Default why anyone wants an "assault rifle"

January 7th, 2013, 23:00
Just to make a minor point on using logic. If P then Q is a basic tenet. The idea behind a logical structure is that P and Q can represent ANYTHING. Therefore, what Dte is doing is using logic correctly. However, all that has demonstrated is that we can't always simply use an apparent logical argument. If it doesn't hold true in all cases, then it is an invalid logical argument. You can't use it when it works, but ignore it when it doesn't!! I once taught this stuff.

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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January 8th, 2013, 04:54
dear Old fellow, On top of logic, there is the ultimate personal value judgement. Gun fearers have no idea nor value what 2nd Admand is about, but appealing to the same force which 2nd Admand is intended to hold in check to take away something holds dear in ordinary gun owners in hope of achieving the impossible absolute safe, ignoring all facts that armed robbery stats immediately go up when guns are confisticated from ordinary people. Just check stats on the Brits and Aussies after their guns were taken away. And look at Mexico, Who have the guns now? Ironically, the Fed attorney general eric holder's "fast and furious" was the one suppling lots of guns to these drug lords. Not smart

Gun fearers, wake up from your hysteria, otherwise the gun barrel you are staring down one day is from your dearest gov.

Marine Joshua Boston, thanks you for using 1st Admand in defense of 2nd Admand, we may need the 2nd Admand in defense of the 1st!
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0…n_2410076.html

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Last edited by mudsling3; January 8th, 2013 at 07:08.
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January 8th, 2013, 11:44
Originally Posted by jhwisner View Post
Maybe I'm misreading this, but is his response to the question for the need of privately owned assault weapons his perceived need to cull the excess population - specifically whichever class/color of people he's thinking of as slaves?

Or is this his characterization what he sees as the mindset of someone who thinks they need an assault rifle?

Neither's a good option as the first would suggest a need for hospitalization and the second precludes the possibility of a respectful discussion because it somewhat unfairly (understatement) ascribes a neo-nazi survivalist militia mentality to an opposing opinion.
I'm saying the USA second amendment wasn't put there so you could shoot deer; it's there to protect you from tyrannical government making you into a slave.

Why do we need assault rifles? For the worst case scenario we'd need a LOT more than that.

Since this war on "terror" the power taken by the government though new anti-terror legislation has grown beyond what government should be allowed. What is happening now is exactly what the constitution set out to prevent! These new laws go over the top of the old ones, voiding them. Indefinite detention without trial? What if what I say is true but there's a law that makes saying it a terrorist act?

If the wrong president gets into power he can use these new laws to legally do illegal things. Speak up against a despicable crime he's committed, aka speak up against the system he represents? You're a terrorist.

So what do you do when they come knocking on your door to take you away to be put to death for trying to stop vile crimes being committed by, apparently, your selected representation? It's like a nightmare scenario for anyone and it's already started happening. (returning troops from Iraq locked up for talking against the war on facebook, for example.)

What happens if it all ends up like The Killing Fields and your child has to go fight in the arena?!

That 2nd amendment is like a security system. If someones trying to disable the security it should trigger an alarm for everyone: Warning: Probable corrupt government detected. And unfortunately the warning signs are going off all over the place.

Anyway, didn't you see the Simpsons where we burned all our guns then aliens took us over with sticks?

PS. Do a little research into False Flag scenarios. Problem, public outcry, solution. This is a logical way a corrupt government can bring about unwanted changes in a way they'll be seen as wanted solutions. Interesting "theory" at least?
Last edited by SirJames; January 8th, 2013 at 11:55.
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January 8th, 2013, 22:52
Your scenario is basically one of the main themes behind the TV show Continuum. If you haven't seen it, take a look!!

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January 9th, 2013, 17:29
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
As for obesity - I'd like to save that for a separate thread. Trust me, though, I have several thoughts on the matter.
Please by all means start the thread. I would love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

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January 10th, 2013, 04:22
forget about NRA mumble jumble, here is Larry Pratt from Gun Owners of America

Piers Morgan vs Larry Pratt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhQSv…ature=youtu.be

want some entertainment, see a bit of AJones vs. Morgan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyKofFih8Y

see how Ben Swan's anylysis of stats
http://www.fox19.com/story/20538164/…homicide-rates

Here is a prop for you gun fearers,
"I will give up my guns when all gov's guns are removed at the same time"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature…&v=hW_LWJvd0vk

"A strong president, means having the strength to resist the temptation of taking all that power isn't yours" - Ron Paul

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Last edited by mudsling3; January 10th, 2013 at 07:30.
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January 10th, 2013, 11:28
Guns protext you from a tyrannical goernment? I can only conclude that there are some dangerously deluded people in America. News at 11.
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January 11th, 2013, 04:16
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
Guns protext you from a tyrannical goernment? I can only conclude that there are some dangerously deluded people in America. News at 11.
Hilter was voted in by a large stupid majority, did they just voted him out? But I guess having a sheeple mentality does help, see no evil…out of sight, out of mind,

Not surprised, those who want to ban guns have this invincible aura about the gov.

"A strong president, means having the strength to resist the temptation of taking all that power isn't yours" - Ron Paul

"If you think the problems we create are bad, just wait until you see our solutions",- Government
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January 11th, 2013, 06:32
Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan View Post
Guns protext you from a tyrannical goernment? I can only conclude that there are some dangerously deluded people in America. News at 11.
Something we have in common with the rest of the world.

I love how everyone assumes that it will just be Billy Joe and Bobby Sue standing alone against a superior military force. Should it ever come to that on a national scale, the military will be just as divided as the civilian populace.

Also, anyone that thinks that one should never fight when "outgunned" is simply a coward. Sometimes it's worth losing a fight just to say you fought it.
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January 11th, 2013, 09:39
Originally Posted by CrazyIrish View Post
Something we have in common with the rest of the world.
Maybe in your fantasy world. I've never heard about a civilised European country like my own where people are so paranoid and deluded.

So, what "rest of the world" are you referring to?

I love how everyone assumes that it will just be Billy Joe and Bobby Sue standing alone against a superior military force. Should it ever come to that on a national scale, the military will be just as divided as the civilian populace.
Everyone? Could you point out more than a single person in this thread who assumes the military won't be divided if this fantasy delusion should ever happen?

Also, anyone that thinks that one should never fight when "outgunned" is simply a coward. Sometimes it's worth losing a fight just to say you fought it.
Sounds fair - and then anyone stating what you just did is a moron. Corwardice and bravery aren't about thinking or ideals - it's about what you do when things happen. Talking about being brave while behind your computer screen is truly pathetic.

Wanting to save lives and being willing to compromise your own safety to do it - is hardly the act of a coward.

This isn't Hollywood where the people who sacrifice their own lives in futile efforts to slaughter other people before being slaughtered themselves is a worthy cause. Generally, that's just a tragic loss of life.

I'm sure you can turn that into admirable bravery like in the movies - but don't expect people with brains to buy it.
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January 11th, 2013, 09:39
Originally Posted by Icefire View Post
Please by all means start the thread. I would love to hear your thoughts on the matter.
Maybe I will - but you could also start it?
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January 11th, 2013, 09:53
Originally Posted by mudsling3 View Post
Hilter was voted in by a large stupid majority, did they just voted him out? But I guess having a sheeple mentality does help, see no evil…out of sight, out of mind,

Not surprised, those who want to ban guns have this invincible aura about the gov.
The Nazi govenrment unfortunately had majority support in the german population pretty much throughout their rule. I wish I could point towards any evidence for a popular uprising against Nazi rule in Germany, but to our shame (I am German), there is none. It was not lack of guns in the population that allowed the Nazis to rule, it was many things, but mainly 1) the initial economic and political successes of Hitlers government 2) the ruthless control of information i.e. the media and constant propaganda at all levels and 3) maintaining a front of legality while effectively subverting the legal system.

(So my tip if you are worried about a corrupt government taking over: forget the guns, make sure you do everything you can to strengthen a free press and an independent legal system)

In fact the Nazi were militarist and quite pro-gun: Civil disarmament was actually first demanded by the Allies after WWI this was enacted by the Weimar republic govenment although very ineffecively because there was no gun registration at the time. The weapon laws and creation of gun registration were actually created in '28 during the Weimar republic in response to the widespread violence (often bordering on civil war like conditions) between armed militias of extremists on the left and right, that is, it was an attempt of the first democratic government of germany to maintain control. The Nazis themselves in fact tried an armed uprising in '23, several years ahead of their '33 grab for power that failed (Hitler-Putsch, often referred to as beer-hall putsch in the english literature).

Interestingly this law actually lifted the strict ban on weapons that had been in effect after WWI allowing the population to own guns for sport and hunting again (provided weapons were properly registered, the owner had a permit and so on), so it could be argued that it was actually a pro-gun law.

The Nazis merely prolonged these laws when they came into power, and like everything else started to subvert them and use them for their own ends, e.g. to confiscate weapons of Jews which was part of the general deprivation of Jews of their rights as Citizens. Although here again, there is no evidence of any plans for armed resistance among the Jewish population that I know of, in fact any such attempt would probably have been welcomed by the Nazis as an excuse to deport and murder the Jews even sooner. There is no indication, as I said above, that these confiscations were a major factor in allowing the Nazi government to control Germany. Weapon training was a regular part of the Hitler-Youth activities, and they were actively trained to prepare them for service as soldiers. (Crazy irish, You might have liked those lads, they were all ready to fight, too. And they lost).

Here is an english site on these issues, it's a bit superficial, but largely correct on the facts to the best of my knowledge: http://www.guncite.com/gun_control_gcnazimyth.html

Incidentally despite what you guys fear from the anti gun lobby, I think the ONLY way you'll get strict gun laws in the US if the NRA pundits actually try to live up to their big words and attempt an armed uprising. So I would say "go ahead, MF, make my day" if it weren't for all the suffering that such a conflict would inevitably bring.

I think the thoughts that led to the second amendment make sense in the context of the time, and from the viewpoint of the revolutionaries of the American independence movement. But considering how much the situation has changed since then, those thoughts simply do not apply to today's reality.

Finally @Crazy irish - right, the military might be divided, and in fact that would be the ONLY thing that matters - your guns at home won't make a difference. Although I dearly hope you will be spared another Civil war.
Last edited by GhanBuriGhan; January 11th, 2013 at 10:17.
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January 12th, 2013, 00:22
Originally Posted by mudsling3 View Post
want some entertainment, see a bit of AJones vs. Morgan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtyKofFih8Y
Uhm… lol… Yeah, that was amazing. Can't argue against that really.

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January 12th, 2013, 04:52
GBG, please read your respond a few more times. Thanks for you tips, so I will do the same.

How could those believe in Nazism rebeled aganist Hiter? I only suggested that those can see through the veil, or those were about to sent to concentration camps could do nothing since Hitler confiscated all guns from people soon after taking power.

Those in the US gov want to take guns away from people LOVE to have guns for themselves and guarded by tens and hundreds of armed body guards everywhere they go. They LOVE bombing some distance people into smithereen. I would not call them "Pro-guns". You can't expose your weakness in an argument like this by committing bait and switch. I would call these killers "pro-war". See how that match with Hitler.

You must have not watched MSM on this side, nothing but propaganda driven mouth pieces of those in power. Drumming up for wars in Iraq… slam those who dared to question gov's version of reality as fringe, conspiracists…did anyone challenge the "Change"?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUCf0…ature=youtu.be
Appealing to offical power such as press and court is contrary to my belief of power decentralization. An internet free of gov's grasp is essential. Guess what, the gov wants to censor/control it for the "greater common good"…"you don't want those _____ get to you kids, don't you?" or in case of "gun control", you don't want those ______ get to you kids, don't you? Any how often you heard news about these demogogue were caught with their pants down? For me, a gun in hands is better than 1000 cops on the street as protection against crime and 10,000 politicians advocating for my safety.

And check your number first before argue against it. There are 90 guns per 100 people in the US. That's 270+ million known guns!!! Civil war means they are kicking down my doors for my guns as I sure won't surrender them voluntary, let's see who will prevail.

"A strong president, means having the strength to resist the temptation of taking all that power isn't yours" - Ron Paul

"If you think the problems we create are bad, just wait until you see our solutions",- Government
Last edited by mudsling3; January 13th, 2013 at 03:05.
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January 12th, 2013, 05:06
Originally Posted by JemyM View Post
Uhm… lol… Yeah, that was amazing. Can't argue against that really.
UK 2034 violent crimes per 100,000
US 466 violent crimes per 100,000
who can argue with that…. just glad the brit got some of the *&$% he dishing out.

One more piece of Piers Morgan vs. Ben Shapiro
http://youtu.be/Fkyy_QqTGFE

"A strong president, means having the strength to resist the temptation of taking all that power isn't yours" - Ron Paul

"If you think the problems we create are bad, just wait until you see our solutions",- Government
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January 13th, 2013, 20:41
Yet more actual evidence:
(I held my nose and used HuffPo so that any bias would be against my position)
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0…_n_627773.html

On Monday, the Supreme Court upheld a challenge to Chicago's 28-year-old handgun ban, which ultimately signals the end of the ban on handguns in Chicago and Oak Park.
So, you've got a ban that's been in place for 28 years. Plenty of time to get entrenched, both practically and mentally. So, folks, how has that worked out in a real-world case study actually in the nation under debate?
Chicago Police Department statistics, we are told, reveal that the City's handgun murder rate has actually increased since the ban was enacted and that Chicago residents now face one of the highest murder rates in the country and rates of other violent crimes that exceed the average in comparable cities.
Now, being an unenlightened knuckle dragger, I wouldn't want to confuse the issue with objective facts based on relevant examples, so perhaps some of you smart folks can explain this data to me.

Sorry. No pearls of wisdom in this oyster.
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January 14th, 2013, 00:33
Can you check Chicago's poverty rates as well ?

As I've been saying before, it's not all black and white and reducing handgun crime rates to only the number of handguns by disregarding every other factor just oversimplifies complex issues.
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January 14th, 2013, 02:55
But you're more than happy to simplify the problem to being the easy access of guns. Is the problem poverty, or guns? If it's guns, then why didn't the ban solve anything, as y'all claim it will? If it's poverty, then why are you going after the guns? And before you tell me it's both and that it's just so damn complicated, then why are you only up in arms about one aspect and only attempting to deal with one aspect? Y'all make the problem sound pretty simple when you're trying to grab the guns.

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January 14th, 2013, 09:15
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
But you're more than happy to simplify the problem to being the easy access of guns. Is the problem poverty, or guns? If it's guns, then why didn't the ban solve anything, as y'all claim it will? If it's poverty, then why are you going after the guns? And before you tell me it's both and that it's just so damn complicated, then why are you only up in arms about one aspect and only attempting to deal with one aspect? Y'all make the problem sound pretty simple when you're trying to grab the guns.
Point out where people are saying the issue is exclusively about guns.

Oh, you can't? Well - then your bullshit is just that - yet again.

Gun availability is a major issue - and poverty is a major issue. We need to deal with both - but we shouldn't ignore one while dealing with the other.

Especially since poverty is a much harder nut to crack - as people are too selfish and ignorant to ever give up resources for other people on a wider scale.

Guns, however, can be dealt with - at least in the long term. I'm sure a lot of people are pissing their pants at the thought of all that lost profit, but it's not everyone - and there are other ways to exploit people than manufacturing weapons.

Are you suggesting we can't deal with one issue and keep others in mind? I'm sure that's beyond your own capacity - but that's not the case for others here. We can focus on guns in a thread about guns - and yet understand that there are other issues requiring constant attention.

Create a thread about poverty - and you'll find many of the same people there. Amazing, isn't it?
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January 14th, 2013, 09:32
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
But you're more than happy to simplify the problem to being the easy access of guns. Is the problem poverty, or guns? If it's guns, then why didn't the ban solve anything, as y'all claim it will? If it's poverty, then why are you going after the guns? And before you tell me it's both and that it's just so damn complicated, then why are you only up in arms about one aspect and only attempting to deal with one aspect? Y'all make the problem sound pretty simple when you're trying to grab the guns.
I wasn't… I was responding to other people's posts about gun control specifically. I also never advocated a complete gun ban, so stop saying y'all. Again, this is you pointing all of us as "they" which none of us are. Everyone has been advocating different things here. Again, black and white… Still don't see an issue with doing that ?
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