|
Your continuous donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Cyberpunk 2077 - Teaser Trailer

Default Cyberpunk 2077 - Teaser Trailer

January 14th, 2013, 07:33
JemyM: This is either trolling, or a severe psychological reaction to uncertainty. The answers to the questions "is it a game" or "a bad movie" are self evident and a vocal frustration for not understanding the meaning of a teaser trailer show an extreme incompetence in relation to modern marketing…

You're being quite defensive considering I'm pretty sure there's nobody here who would have even been able to come up with a good guess what that trailer was about if they weren't told ahead of time.

Dr. A: …sex (or some form of it) will be a part of the seedy underbelly that exists an arm's length away…

Unfortunate Freudian slip aside, the availability of sex and human sex drive seems to be one of the few constants in human history. It should be neither more common nor more rare in a dystopian future. Nor was it, to the best of my recollection, in cyberpunk scifi. You wanna agitate for more sex in games that's fine by me and I might even co-sign, but don't act like it's a genre requirement
CraigCWB is offline

CraigCWB

Sentinel

#41

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 492

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 08:11
Originally Posted by CraigCWB View Post
It should be neither more common nor more rare in a dystopian future. Nor was it, to the best of my recollection, in cyberpunk scifi. You wanna agitate for more sex in games that's fine by me and I might even co-sign, but don't act like it's a genre requirement
The genre is basically combining advanced technology with excessive vice - that is what Cyberpunk is. Sex and/or Drugs tend to be the most widely utilised vice in the genre. Blade runner had sex replicants, as did the Ghost in the shell movies. Neuromancer may not of had much but drug usage was prevelant.

Without vices it is not Cyberpunk - merely Cyber Sci-fi.

Favourite RPGs of all time: Wizardry 6, Ultima 7/7.2, Fallout2, Planescape Torment, Baldurs Gate 2+TOB, Jagged Alliance 2, Ravenloft: The stone prophet, Gothic 2, Realms of Arkania:Blade of destiny (not the HD version!!) and Secret of the Silver Blades.
bjon045 is offline

bjon045

bjon045's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#42

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sigil
Posts: 945

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 09:28
Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
The genre is basically combining advanced technology with excessive vice - that is what Cyberpunk is. Sex and/or Drugs tend to be the most widely utilised vice in the genre. Blade runner had sex replicants, as did the Ghost in the shell movies. Neuromancer may not of had much but drug usage was prevelant.

Without vices it is not Cyberpunk - merely Cyber Sci-fi.
Excessive vice is common whenever and wherever societies decay/decline. That's why it's in the genre. I realize computer nerds don't get out much, but here in LA it wouldn't take long for me to find an environment in which I'd be surrounded by "excessive vice" 24/7, and LA is pretty tame compared to some places I've been. This is not genre specific. It's human nature.
CraigCWB is offline

CraigCWB

Sentinel

#43

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 492

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 09:38
And by the way, thanks for mentioning Bladerunner. Somebody who was 10 years old when that movie came out is over 40 years old, now. I was in high school at the time and as far as I can recall it didn't have an excessive amount of sex in it. It hardly had any sex in it, at all. Even by the standards of the day.
CraigCWB is offline

CraigCWB

Sentinel

#44

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 492

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 09:47
A pre-cybrepunk dystopian post-apocalyptic movie that suits some of the genre descriptions being offered here better than cyberpunk classics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zardoz

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbGVIdA3dx0

There are others I could probably recall and reference if I have to.

The key feature of cyberpunk to me, other than being dystopian, is that the protagonist is an outlaw tech user. Which would mean Blade Runner doesn't qualify, while The Matrix does.
CraigCWB is offline

CraigCWB

Sentinel

#45

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 492

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 09:57
I think you are missing the point of the discussion on sexism. It's part of a discussion of a larger problem in the industry rather than about this one particular trailer. The problem is that female characters are depicted more often as villains or victims than heroes and always designed for male gaze, with sexiness as the first and foremost (and sometimes only) characteristic. The issue isn't the sexpot on this trailer, the issue is that there's very little of anything else.
Last edited by Raggie; January 14th, 2013 at 10:08.
Raggie is offline

Raggie

Watchdog

#46

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 142

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 10:18
Raggie: The problem is that female characters are depicted more often as villains or victims than heroes and always designed for male gaze, with sexiness as the first and foremost (and sometimes only) characteristic.

What games are you referring to, specifically? Fallout 3? New Vegas? Original Fallouts? Dragon Age? Other Bioware titles? The Mass Effect games? Jagged Alliance series? XCOM series? KOTOR 1 or 2? Online games like Everquest, WoW? If people want to start a discussion lets get into specifics and have at it
CraigCWB is offline

CraigCWB

Sentinel

#47

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 492

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 10:38
Originally Posted by CraigCWB View Post
If people want to start a discussion lets get into specifics and have at it
I've seen this discussion too many times already I have no intention to "have at it" again. Would it be enough to refer you to an ongoing discussion? It goes over the same arguments that pop up every single time. It would save time just to read that instead of starting it all over again.
Raggie is offline

Raggie

Watchdog

#48

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 142

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 10:56
Raggie comment 1: I think you are missing the point of the discussion on sexism. It's part of a discussion of a larger problem in the industry rather than about this one particular trailer.

Raggie comment 2: I've seen this discussion too many times already I have no intention to "have at it" again. Would it be enough to refer you to an ongoing discussion?

Lecture everyone about the nature of a discussion they aren't even having, and then tell them you've got no interest in the discussion that nobody but you is talking about?

I spent a few minutes thinking about it, after you brought it up, and I listed some of the games I had in mind when I was doing what passes for analysis with me and I'm really not seeing the issue. If anything, meaningful female characters are over-represented playing the parts of characters that are traditionally "alpha male" characters in similar real life situations. Which I don't mind a bit because it makes games more interesting. Nor have I noticed female NPCs tending to be any more in need of assistance or any more despicable than male NPCs. If anything they tend to be tougher and more likeable. Compare Bastila Shan and that annoying wimp Carth Onassi in KOTOR, for example. Or Morrigan and that annoying wimp Alistair in Dragon Age Origins. And so on. You might have a point when it comes to the revealing outfits but as far as I can tell even female gamers aren't really complaining much.

So, anyway, since you don't want to tell me how wrong my analysis is I guess I'll just forget about it.
CraigCWB is offline

CraigCWB

Sentinel

#49

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 492

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 11:07
Originally Posted by CraigCWB View Post
You might have a point when it comes to the revealing outfits but as far as I can tell even female gamers aren't really complaining much.
Do you want to know why? Because bringing it up usually ends in a flame war and pm harassement. Which is why I'm not going to get into this, for real. Just read the thread if you are really interested.
Raggie is offline

Raggie

Watchdog

#50

Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 142

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 11:23
Originally Posted by CraigCWB View Post
If anything, meaningful female characters are over-represented playing the parts of characters that are traditionally "alpha male" characters in similar real life situations.
Similar real life situations?

How many games do we play that feature situations that could possibly happen in real life?
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch

#51

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 17,701

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 11:31
It seems to me developers and moviemakers are going out of their way to turn female characters into male-like macho heroes.

Personally, I find such characters unappealing and even less plausible than their male counterparts - who're already extremely ridiculous in the vast majority of cases.

If that's an attempt at gender equality - I have to say I find it laughably stupid. If women want to be macho - then they should consider testosterone on their cornflakes - or it won't work.

I wonder why we're not seeing strong feminine roles instead - or rather I'm not wondering, but it would be nice to see - both in gaming and movies.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#52

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,210

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 11:40
Raggie, I know female gamers who like the sexy outfits. I don't know any female gamers who want their characters wearing masculine clothing. Maybe that's not the norm. On the other hand you've made some claims about stereotypes that I'm not seeing, and you've refused to offer evidence because, you claim, the evidence is… eh… self-evident… or something.

JDR13: Similar real life situations? How many games do we play that feature situations that could possibly happen in real life?

Remove the fantasy/scifi elements and the absurdities involved with combat and special abilities, and such situations are not at all uncommon.
CraigCWB is offline

CraigCWB

Sentinel

#53

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 492

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 11:47
I agree with you, DArtagnan. It seems to me like devs took the easy way out with gender roles.
CraigCWB is offline

CraigCWB

Sentinel

#54

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 492

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 12:02
Originally Posted by CraigCWB View Post
Excessive vice is common whenever and wherever societies decay/decline. That's why it's in the genre. I realize computer nerds don't get out much, but here in LA it wouldn't take long for me to find an environment in which I'd be surrounded by "excessive vice" 24/7, and LA is pretty tame compared to some places I've been. This is not genre specific. It's human nature.
It is part the genre. Not the act of sex as such but sex as a vice. I.e. in Blade runner you see hookers on street corners, and Zhora is a exotic dancer replicant that works in a sex club. In GitS2 a hooker android goes crazy and murders people.

I'm not sure the exact point you are trying to make? Yes society may have these elements now but that doesn't mean it is not part of the definition of the genre. If the streets were clean and law and order prevailed and cyborgs were upstanding citizens - it would not be cyberpunk.

The key feature of cyberpunk to me, other than being dystopian, is that the protagonist is an outlaw tech user. Which would mean Blade Runner doesn't qualify, while The Matrix does.
I see it more as humanity losing itself under the layers of technology, primarily cybernetics. Things like Virtual reality/drugs are often used to escape the reality of the world. I would consider both your examples very good examples of the cyberpunk genre.

Favourite RPGs of all time: Wizardry 6, Ultima 7/7.2, Fallout2, Planescape Torment, Baldurs Gate 2+TOB, Jagged Alliance 2, Ravenloft: The stone prophet, Gothic 2, Realms of Arkania:Blade of destiny (not the HD version!!) and Secret of the Silver Blades.
bjon045 is offline

bjon045

bjon045's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#55

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sigil
Posts: 945

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 12:24
Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
It is part the genre. Not the act of sex as such but sex as a vice. I.e. in Blade runner you see hookers on street corners, and Zhora is a exotic dancer replicant that works in a sex club. In GitS2 a hooker android goes crazy and murders people.
I can drive down to Sunset Blvd right now and find hookers standing on street corners, and I have heard stories of drugged up hookers going crazy and killing people. And wasn't there a prostitute serial killer in Florida in the 1990s that made international headlines? The difference in your examples is that one is a replicant and the other is an android. That's not related to sex. It's related to tech.

Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
I'm not sure the exact point you are trying to make? Yes society may have these elements now but that doesn't mean it is not part of the definition of the genre. If the streets were clean and law and order prevailed and cyborgs were upstanding citizens - it would not be cyberpunk.
It would not be dystopia, and that's why it would not be cyberpunk. And that is the exact point I am trying to make

Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
I see it more as humanity losing itself under the layers of technology, primarily cybernetics. Things like Virtual reality/drugs are often used to escape the reality of the world. I would consider both your examples very good examples of the cyberpunk genre.
Blade Runner and Matrix?I watched Blade Runner the year it was released and I read Neuromancer the year it was published. It never occurred to me back then that Blade Runner was cyberpunk, though it seems now that it is almost considered the definitive example. I'd agree the setting and the presentation of Blade Runner are pretty much spot on for what I think a cyberpunk dystopia would be like (Matrix is not), but where are the actual cyberpunks in that movie?
CraigCWB is offline

CraigCWB

Sentinel

#56

Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 492

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 12:42
Well, I'd say sex is significantly more prominent in a proper dystopian Cyberpunk setting than other sci-fi settings. Mostly because of the class separation and exclusive focus on urban life, where whores are common and highly visible.

So, I agree that "sex on display" is a Cyberpunk thing, though it's obviously not exclusive to that setting. It doesn't matter if there are cities or places in real life with whores being prominent - because they're not prominent in most places. In Cyberpunk, they're pretty much everywhere you go - and that's what makes them part of the setting.

Blade Runner might not have shown many whores - but I think the setting is sufficiently seedy to make it plain that they'd be there. That whole snake dancer thing in the bar is a good example - as are the "basic pleasure models" of the replicants.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#57

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,210

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 13:09
Originally Posted by CraigCWB View Post
Originally Posted by JemyM
a vocal frustration for not understanding the meaning of a teaser trailer show an extreme incompetence in relation to modern marketing…
You're being quite defensive considering I'm pretty sure there's nobody here who would have even been able to come up with a good guess what that trailer was about if they weren't told ahead of time.
The point was that this is a common quality of teaser trailers. They are subtle, mysterious and sometimes a puzzle to figure out.

Mankind must put an end to war or war will put an end to mankind. - John F Kennedy
An eye for an eye, and soon the whole world is blind. - Mahatma Gandhi
The world is my country. To do good is my religion. My mind is my own church. This simple creed is all we need to enjoy peace on earth. - Thomas Paine
JemyM is offline

JemyM

JemyM's Avatar
Okay, now roll sanity.

#58

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 6,027
Send a message via ICQ to JemyM Send a message via MSN to JemyM

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 13:38
Originally Posted by CraigCWB View Post
Dr. A: …sex (or some form of it) will be a part of the seedy underbelly that exists an arm's length away…

Unfortunate Freudian slip aside, the availability of sex and human sex drive seems to be one of the few constants in human history. It should be neither more common nor more rare in a dystopian future. Nor was it, to the best of my recollection, in cyberpunk scifi. You wanna agitate for more sex in games that's fine by me and I might even co-sign, but don't act like it's a genre requirement
But what is the alternative? No sexualization whatsover? A "Nintendification" of sorts? I myself am annoyed at overly portrayed female tropes in fantasy (all that flesh is covered by a metal bikini, yeah right!) but to neuter (another Freudian slip? ) the sexual dysfunction in a cyberpunk setting is, to me at least, unsettling.

Or like you say, we could just have the usual amount of sex we already have in current times. Which based on the saturation rate of current mainstream media, seems to be excessive to begin with

Excess. Vice. Vulgarism. All major components of cyberpunk, are they not? Surely sex fits in here as well?
Dr. A is offline

Dr. A

Dr. A's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#59

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 801

Default 

January 14th, 2013, 14:09
As far as cinematic trailers go, this one was brilliant.
GhanBuriGhan is offline

GhanBuriGhan

GhanBuriGhan's Avatar
Wose extraordinaire

#60

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,471
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Cyberpunk 2077 - Teaser Trailer
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 17:28.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch