Grimoire - More Incentive for Cleve

The game is actually quite balanced, much like Wiz 7/8. You can succeed with any reasonable party and there is some overlap of skills and spells such as you find in the Wiz games as well.

Originally Posted by Corwin
The game is actually quite balanced, much like Wiz 7/8. You can succeed with any reasonable party and there is some overlap of skills and spells such as you find in the Wiz games as well.

Good to hear, I was waiting for feedback from people who've played the game/ demo (I can't run the demo right now).

Still I'd like some feedback from Cleve where he sheds some light on what he's done to balance stuff, and how extensive the playtesting (I assume at beta) will be. If that's convincing I'd buy it at full retail price gladly. Otherwise I'll just wait for the full game to come out and see if people discover any major flaws/bugs/glitches.

Cleve says that the game has already been beta tested several times and Corwin mentioned earlier that several people from here were part of one of those tests. Am not sure how much of the game that applies too. The bugs we are seeing are to do with windows compatibility - I get the impression that Cleve doesn't have a windows 7 system himself to test on, which wouldn't appear to be optimal if that was the case.

Cleve mentioned in the Codex thread that he did not encounter the problems on the Windows 7 machines he uses, so he does have them. What I guess he lacks is experience in programming on Windows 7 or maybe even Windows in general.
He should get someone involved who does have that experience. Then again Cleve does not strike me much as someone who works really wel with others.

Originally Posted by Myrthos
Cleve mentioned in the Codex thread that he did not encounter the problems on the Windows 7 machines he uses, so he does have them. What I guess he lacks is experience in programming on Windows 7 or maybe even Windows in general.
He should get someone involved who does have that experience. Then again Cleve does not strike me much as someone who works really wel with others.

I think he mentioned on Indiegogo that he actually has someone helping him with the port - IIRC

…isn't all this 'Huh, no wonder Cleve's being worshipped on the CODEX, how typical of them, they're not like us smarter-than-your-average bears who post here' stuff more than a little one-eyed, given that the man has shuttlecocked back and forth between both forums over the years, hanging out at one community for a couple of months before taking umbrage at something or other someone said about him or his game and then leaving again with a dramatic and deeply inaccurate vow never to return?

I mean, let's face it, somewhere out there there is a parallel universe almost exactly identical to ours where, at some point in the past decade, one vaguely critical forum-post was made or not made, and now Cleve is proudly holding court amongst his various disciples in the RPGWatch Grimoire MegaThread.

I suppose what I'm saying is; you may scoff and mock and enjoy your sense of internet-tribalist superiority now, folks, but soon enough fortune's wheel will turn again. And then you can have him back.

Originally Posted by Lev
100 men pushing one single person in the corner? Certainly this person can hardly keep his polite attitude in such circumstainces. The joke is 17 year old. Isn't it time to talk about the game and what can we do to make it better instead of spending yet another year searching for weak spots in someone's personality?

By the way, is there any site where we can report Grimoire bugs?

Same position as mine.

People report bugs on codex threads. There's also the indiegogo campaign comments that could work I suppose.

Originally Posted by MaskedGumball
…I mean, let's face it, somewhere out there there is a parallel universe almost exactly identical to ours where, at some point in the past decade, one vaguely critical forum-post was made or not made, and now Cleve is proudly holding court amongst his various disciples in the RPGWatch Grimoire MegaThread.

I suppose what I'm saying is; you may scoff and mock and enjoy your sense of internet-tribalist superiority now, folks, but soon enough fortune's wheel will turn again. And then you can have him back.

He has in fact already returned. I good form, too!

Originally Posted by Charles-cgr
Same position as mine.

Brilliant position, Charles. It is a very rational response to criticism for someone to call all of us:

(1) Trailer trash…
(2) Who live with our phone sex operator mothers…
(3) Who weep at the very prospect of our forlorn employment in various fast food establishments

Very mature, right?

Originally Posted by MaskedGumball
…isn't all this 'Huh, no wonder Cleve's being worshipped on the CODEX, how typical of them, they're not like us smarter-than-your-average bears who post here' stuff more than a little one-eyed, given that the man has shuttlecocked back and forth between both forums over the years, hanging out at one community for a couple of months before taking umbrage at something or other someone said about him or his game and then leaving again with a dramatic and deeply inaccurate vow never to return?

I mean, let's face it, somewhere out there there is a parallel universe almost exactly identical to ours where, at some point in the past decade, one vaguely critical forum-post was made or not made, and now Cleve is proudly holding court amongst his various disciples in the RPGWatch Grimoire MegaThread.

I suppose what I'm saying is; you may scoff and mock and enjoy your sense of internet-tribalist superiority now, folks, but soon enough fortune's wheel will turn again. And then you can have him back.

That's pretty funny!!!

In our defense, though, we do generally drive him off pretty quickly. The Codex seems to be pretty happy playing with him for the past 6 months. They can keep him indefinitely. Unless the mods here ban his account, what can we do to prevent his return?

Wait…maybe we can get him to say his name backwards…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Mxyzptlk

@Gozioso - Don't you think we can be big enough on RPGWatch not to react to those things? And perhaps to understand where that kind of angst comes from?

@gozioso Criticism would be just fine to me. I'd criticize it too but with that many people doing it I don't feel it is warranted to add more.

I prefer to focus on the positive. There's a game and it is worthy of notice and praise. Cleve might be nuts but seems rather harmless and actually quite hilarious. This bodes quite well for the writing in Grimoire.

He's been an internet joke for about a decade now. I can understand how he might have difficulty dealing with criticism and prefer to pass on that.

Also, who cares if he's mature? I sure as hell am not.

Originally Posted by Myrthos
Cleve mentioned in the Codex thread that he did not encounter the problems on the Windows 7 machines he uses, so he does have them. What I guess he lacks is experience in programming on Windows 7 or maybe even Windows in general.
He should get someone involved who does have that experience. Then again Cleve does not strike me much as someone who works really wel with others.

You sound like you have a really rich fantasy life you enjoy with me. Do you have a little doll in your room you call Cleve and have complex discussions with?

If you have any experience programming in Windows at all then you already know such porting problems are common going from 98 to XP and XP to W7/Vista.

Common.

Unless you're one of the sh*thouse lawyers on here who had probably never had a bug in any of his code. Because he works the night shift at Dennys.

Well unfortunately being "nuts" may help with entertaining and crazy writing, but it's a very bad thing when it comes to writing computer programs. People who are delusional or who have similar disorders also tend to have severely disordered thinking, which is the sort of thing that can severely get in the way when your trying to write complex code or plan out a detailed project. Sadly it usually gets worse and worse with age.

But anyway if Grimoire comes out, I only care if it's a good game. I could care less about the writer's mental health, how impolite he is, or whether he has a history of lying and ammoral behavioral. However when a game hasn't been released yet, those are all things that have an important impact on how seriously I take it.

Originally Posted by GhanBuriGhan
To be fair, that incident took place in Politics & Religion, IIRC? Things that happen there have little to do with the professional relationship between a developer and a games journalist, IMHO. We all venture there at our own risk.

In Bolshevist world, people who oppose carpet bombing of kindergartens with remote piloted drones are the "evil" ones. They have radical ideas none of us should countenance. Corwin was really embarrassed when I suggested blowing up kids in distant lands with U.S. munitions might be wrong.

Originally Posted by fadedc
Well unfortunately being "nuts" may help with entertaining and crazy writing, but it's a very bad thing when it comes to writing computer programs. People who are delusional or who have similar disorders also tend to have severely disordered thinking, which is the sort of thing that can severely get in the way when your trying to write complex code or plan out a detailed project. Sadly it usually gets worse and worse with age.

I can tell how sad you are.

Ad hominem and psychoanalysis of those who disagree with us puts us in good company - the Soviet Union used it to manage all dissent. It's passive-aggressive behavior pretending to be concern and it is often connected to latent homosexuality. But I am sure somebody as versed in psychology as you already knew that.

The nice thing about Cleve is that when your struggling to explain to people why it's hard to take him seriously, he always comes to the thread and demonstrates it far better then you ever could.

Originally Posted by Charles-cgr
Also, who cares if he's mature? I sure as hell am not.

I disagree. You developed and released an indie game, responded well to criticism, and demonstrated a commitment to supporting your game. Very professionally, I might add. That sounds mature to me. That's part of the reason why I purchased your game.

People like you…I want to succeed. People like Cleve…not so much.

Originally Posted by Roq
@Gozioso - Don't you think we can be big enough on RPGWatch not to react to those things? And perhaps to understand where that kind of angst comes from?

You're partly right. I should ignore him, yes, but I certainly have no compassion for him. He makes that pretty much impossible with his actions. Honestly, this whole Grimoire business is starting to bore me. There are so many more pleasant things to discuss on this site.

Originally Posted by gozioso
I disagree. You developed and released an indie game, responded well to criticism, and demonstrated a commitment to supporting your game. Very professionally, I might add. That sounds mature to me. That's part of the reason why I purchased your game.

People like you…I want to succeed. People like Cleve…not so much.

What!? Wait… I grew up and nobody told me?? EEK!

Frankly these criticisms and ad hominems are thoroughly dull, whatever the rights and wrongs, they don't achieve anything and are likely to be detrimental to the development and marketing of the game, which deserves a fair chance to speak for itself. There is a politics and religion section on this forum, that is a better place for slinging mud, You Tube style, about non RPG issues, I would have thought. So whatever, the past history, can we now call it quits and let the game stand or fall on its own merits?

WRT the compatibility bugs on Win7/Vista: It appears to be possible for most people, at least on Win7 to get the game running in XP compatibility mode with just a single game breaking glitch (the mouse goes haywire in the character screen). Whilst in native mode the crash is quite replicable on my setup (happens every second combat). Those things indicate that there isn't anything too fundamentally wrong (such as a completely flawed threading model), although, of course, it can be incredibly frustrating tracking down these bugs and they sometimes result from the last thing one would imagine.

Originally Posted by Cleveland Mark Blakemore
You sound like you have a really rich fantasy life you enjoy with me. Do you have a little doll in your room you call Cleve and have complex discussions with?

If you have any experience programming in Windows at all then you already know such porting problems are common going from 98 to XP and XP to W7/Vista.

Common.

Unless you're one of the sh*thouse lawyers on here who had probably never had a bug in any of his code. Because he works the night shift at Dennys.

Oh Cleve, you are so sexy when you talk like that to me…