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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Shroud of the Avatar - Update #10, Selective Multi-player

Default Shroud of the Avatar - Update #10, Selective Multi-player

March 19th, 2013, 13:51
Originally Posted by rossrjensen View Post
It says under the Q & A section that Garriott has already invested a substantial amount in the project and will likely invest a substantial amount more than is raised by the Kickstarter. It's definitely there.
From the official website, FAQ's:

What happens if you don’t raise enough money?

We feel confident that, with your help, we will reach our goals! In the unfortunate case that we don’t raise the money via Kickstarter, we would likely have to go from “indie” development to working with a major publisher, who would probably not be as open to what I, Lord British, and YOU, our fans have envisioned for the game.
————————————————

Considering that RG already raised 7mil for this game, and others were going to 'self publish' with only about 1mil, I'd say this is controversial to say the least.

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March 19th, 2013, 14:38
Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
'xcuse me? Just following the kickstarter and looking around on the official website, I didn't find a sign anywhere that said "we have all the money we need, thank you. Do donate if it makes you feel better". I only realized he already had the money when somebody pointed out a magazine article to me.
From the QA:

Richard has already invested several million dollars in the game and will almost certainly invest more before we ship. We would have to have a record setting campaign to match what Richard already invested in the company. But there is no reason to suggest that we can't also raise money from the community we are making the game for to get them involved too. 100% of the money raised in the Kickstarter will go to make a better game and the community involvement is a huge bonus for US.

By supporting this project, you will be also be able to collaborate with the developers, lending your voice to what features you would like to see added. You can be a part of the creation of the classic fantasy role playing experience you have been waiting for!
No he doesn't say it as bluntly as you put it, but that seemed pretty clear to me that in answer to the common question they've been asked about why they need the money that they're basically saying "well really he money from this is dwarfed by our own investments, but we'd loved to get the community involved and we'll certainly put it to use." As for why they're raising money - they clearly say they're raising "money from the community we are making the game for to get them involved."

In video interviews that have been linked to from he site and dev chats he has also been asked what would happen if he didn't meet the goal. His response was that he'd be disappointed no to have he large community (think he actually managed to say community 4 times in that answer) to collaborate with but that the game will be funded regardless.

Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
From the official website, FAQ's:

What happens if you don’t raise enough money?

We feel confident that, with your help, we will reach our goals! In the unfortunate case that we don’t raise the money via Kickstarter, we would likely have to go from “indie” development to working with a major publisher, who would probably not be as open to what I, Lord British, and YOU, our fans have envisioned for the game.
————————————————

Considering that RG already raised 7mil for this game, and others were going to 'self publish' with only about 1mil, I'd say this is controversial to say the least.
Well I think he's considering a succesful kickstarter as substituting for the advertisement power brought to the table by a publisher. Making the 1 million goal isn't the difference between having to go to a publisher or not - it's the 1 million as well as then having to secure probably a couple million in ad money if the kickstarter hadn't generated enough free advertising.

But yeah that was kind of a weird answer and the way he worded it I could see someone maybe feeling he was threatening sadle it to a large publisher if the fans didn't show their love. I don't think that was the intent though at least.
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March 19th, 2013, 16:25
Originally Posted by jhwisner View Post
As for why they're raising money - they clearly say they're raising "money from the community we are making the game for to get them involved."
I can't really swallow that. There are people out there waiting for a new Ultima style game. That's the pull of the project. Would these people have been less vocal/ supportive without a kickstarter? I see no reason why. Now that they've pledged they certainly feel more entitled, but 'involved'?

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March 19th, 2013, 16:37
Ah, but entitlement is such a strong bond!
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March 19th, 2013, 16:39
Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
I can't really swallow that. There are people out there waiting for a new Ultima style game. That's the pull of the project. Would these people have been less vocal/ supportive without a kickstarter? I see no reason why. Now that they've pledged they certainly feel more entitled, but 'involved'?
My god, what's next on your list of things LB has done to you?

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March 19th, 2013, 17:21
Originally Posted by rune_74 View Post
My god, what's next on your list of things LB has done to you?
hey, I don't have a problem with the existence of uncritical fanboys, so why should they have a problem with me?

To clarify, my point was that RG didn't really need the exposure through a kickstarter. He'd have no problem getting coverage as it is. He's not Guido Henkel after all.

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March 19th, 2013, 17:45
Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
hey, I don't have a problem with the existence of uncritical fanboys, so why should they have a problem with me?

To clarify, my point was that RG didn't really need the exposure through a kickstarter. He'd have no problem getting coverage as it is. He's not Guido Henkel after all.
And I think you have made it about 20 times….what do you need a cookie?

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March 19th, 2013, 18:06
Originally Posted by rune_74 View Post
And I think you have made it about 20 times….what do you need a cookie?
lol, I haven't made that point a single time before. It seems to you every critic is part of the anti-LB conspiracy.

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March 19th, 2013, 18:14
Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
lol, I haven't made that point a single time before. It seems to you every critic is part of the anti-LB conspiracy.
Nope just the stupid stuff…keep going.

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March 19th, 2013, 18:35
Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
hey, I don't have a problem with the existence of uncritical fanboys, so why should they have a problem with me?

To clarify, my point was that RG didn't really need the exposure through a kickstarter. He'd have no problem getting coverage as it is. He's not Guido Henkel after all.
If he wants the multiplayer to end up being a success without relying on a publisher to provide publicity/advertising (advertising budgets can often approach the design costs of games themselves) he probably does. To have a long-lived and strong community in an online gaming space, you need both the loyal dedicated core and also a sufficient mass of more regular gamers too.

Personally I could care less about the multiplayer and you'd be right to say he doesn't need kickstarter to make the game I'm most interested in. But he doesn't do those anymore, so this seems like its his attempt at a win-win. In theory he gets to do he t things he likes most - try and create another social role-playing experience - and dedicated old-timey Ultima fans get another Ultima - as single-player as they want. I don't know how well that sort of division of interests (his and those like me who are more interested in everything except the online play) will work out in the end though. Hopefully well, but it should be interesting to watch it play out regardless.
Last edited by jhwisner; March 19th, 2013 at 18:35. Reason: sa
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March 19th, 2013, 18:45
Originally Posted by jhwisner View Post
If he wants the multiplayer to end up being a success without relying on a publisher to provide publicity/advertising (advertising budgets can often approach the design costs of games themselves) he probably does.
I don't think he would have had trouble getting featured in magazines and on gaming sites, with the relevance especially of UO for today's gaming world and the fact that he is again making a multiplayer-heavy game. The fact that you can rely on him to take his mouth full could have helped there too.

Contrast that with Guido Henkel, who with his plans for a retro single player RPG couldn't get a foot in the door anywhere, even with a kickstarter going. So kickstarter doesn't seem to be the deciding factor here.

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March 19th, 2013, 18:56
Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
I don't think he would have had trouble getting featured in magazines and on gaming sites, with the relevance especially of UO for today's gaming world and the fact that he is again making a multiplayer-heavy game. The fact that you can rely on him to take his mouth full could have helped there too.

Contrast that with Guido Henkel, who with his plans for a retro single player RPG couldn't get a foot in the door anywhere, even with a kickstarter going. So kickstarter doesn't seem to be the deciding factor here.
I imagine Richard Garriot probably doesn't have the easy access to a lot of publishers in the way it might seem he would. Its just one of the most recent things that would mark his reputation from their point of view would be his time at NCSoft which resulted in a failed product, one of the strangest ways I've ever seen a CEO fired, and him suing that employer and winning 28 million dollars. And yeah that last bit was NCSoft being kind of retarded, but I don't think publishers like the idea that you wouldn't hesitate to sue them if they screwed you over.
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March 19th, 2013, 23:43
Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
'xcuse me? Just following the kickstarter and looking around on the official website, I didn't find a sign anywhere that said "we have all the money we need, thank you. Do donate if it makes you feel better". I only realized he already had the money when somebody pointed out a magazine article to me.

I was referring to the following under "why do you need my money" —

"Richard has already invested several million dollars in the game and will almost certainly invest more before we ship. We would have to have a record setting campaign to match what Richard already invested in the company. But there is no reason to suggest that we can't also raise money from the community we are making the game for to get them involved too. 100% of the money raised in the Kickstarter will go to make a better game and the community involvement is a huge bonus for US."

It's written right there on the Kickstarter page.

EDIT: looks like jhwisner beat me to it.
Last edited by rossrjensen; March 19th, 2013 at 23:58.
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March 20th, 2013, 07:22
Just to point out the obvious, "we have invested" doesn't mean the same thing as "funding secured". Why are they tiptoeing around this fact?

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