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RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » Torment: Tides of Numenera - Update #9, Chris Avellone

Default Torment: Tides of Numenera - Update #9, Chris Avellone

March 22nd, 2013, 21:29
Chris Avellone will join the team if funding reaches 3.5m.
Of course, from the start, we hoped Chris could contribute to Torment as well. But as recently as a couple weeks ago (16 days to be precise), we didn’t know whether Torment would even fund. And besides, Chris’s commitment to Project Eternity made it unclear whether he’d have the time. Given his key role in Planescape™: Torment, and the respect he has earned from the game’s fans, we didn’t want to even hint that Chris might be involved unless we were certain it would be possible. Our unexpectedly strong start – because of you – made it an option we could explore. So explore we did. We’ve been able to work out the scheduling matters so that Chris can contribute to Torment without impacting Project Eternity.
At $3.5M, Chris will be joining our design team. He’ll have two primary roles. First, he will be reviewing and providing feedback on all creative elements of the game, including the story, characters, and areas. His input will be invaluable as a resource to Colin in further detailing the creative vision for the game. Second, he’ll be designing and writing an eighth companion for the game, working with Colin and Monte to craft a companion ideal for both Torment and the Ninth World of Numenera.
More information.
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March 22nd, 2013, 21:29
Between CA and Pat Rothfuss, I'm very tempted to increase my pledge. TEH EXCITE
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March 22nd, 2013, 21:54
Originally Posted by killias2 View Post
Between CA and Pat Rothfuss, I'm very tempted to increase my pledge. TEH EXCITE
Yes and looks like the Kickstarter is picking up a bit again - not that one could be too unhappy with it's previous progress .
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March 22nd, 2013, 22:01
How big will this design team be anyway? Normally I'd say this is completely overkill, but Torment was always about writing and design, so in this particular case I think it's a good thing.

I'm undecided how high I should go. We definitely have to get both Rothfuss and Avellone on board..
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March 22nd, 2013, 22:09
"I'm undecided how high I should go. We definitely have to get both Rothfuss and Avellone on board.."

I'm thinking the KS will end around 4 million. It might be a bit higher or a bit lower. A lot depends on how well it ends. That 4 million figure depends on a pretty robust follow-through.
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March 23rd, 2013, 09:42
Eternity got $1m in its last 3 days, and a bout $400 the three days before that. Torment is just under $3m, which is about a million more than Eternity at the same point.

I'm guessing $4.5-5 million.
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March 23rd, 2013, 13:26
have they mentioned anything about gameplay other than "it's single player and isometric"? Really that's all that matters to me, the whole story is just background fluff for me in games.
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March 23rd, 2013, 13:46
The story, and your character's participation in it, is the gameplay in Torment. That said, they claim they are going to make the combat better than it was in PS:T. It'll still be almost entirely avoidable, though.
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March 23rd, 2013, 13:56
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
have they mentioned anything about gameplay other than "it's single player and isometric"? Really that's all that matters to me, the whole story is just background fluff for me in games.
No, except that and that is based on Numenera PnP rule set.I am opposite here,for Torment I care only about story but it would be nice if they could deliver on gameplay(some combat areas in PS:T felt like chore I wouldn't want to see that in Torment) as well but you can see clearly so far that it isn't primary concern.I would like to know more about combat as well up to same point in campaign Project eternity gave much more info on combat,classes and their roles and potential skills.
Last edited by Nameless one; March 23rd, 2013 at 14:06.
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March 23rd, 2013, 15:12
Originally Posted by Badesumofu View Post
The story, and your character's participation in it, is the gameplay in Torment. That said, they claim they are going to make the combat better than it was in PS:T. It'll still be almost entirely avoidable, though.
hmm… yeah. That doesn't cut it for me. I liked PS:T's combat/gameplay, but I don't remember the story at all, I think the protagonist was dead or something, and there was a talking skull. That's how much I care about that story fluff
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March 23rd, 2013, 15:58
I, on the other hand, have discovered, that unless a story can draw me into a game, I couldn't care less about mechanics, and I can even put up with a lot of errors and nuisances if a story and its presentation is gripping, immersive, and cohesive.

I am a great fan and enthusiast of story and storytelling. Storytelling (be it the everyday kind that we all do, or the more eloquent kinds, like fiction) is one of the primary ways of the human mind to convey meaning and to teach.

I would not call the story of PS:Torment 'fluff', especially if I was admittedly uninformed and uninterested in stories in general. The quality of it is quite astounding. I sincerely hope that the people who are creating this new Torment game understand what made the interactive story PS:T was great.

That said, I do hope the RPG gameplay mechanics will be fun enough to cater for number crunching fans, too, but I believe the emphasis is well put on interactive storytelling. It's rare enough as it is.
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March 23rd, 2013, 17:24
They've mentioned that it is going to be isometric? Shame, I was hoping they'd try to break new grounds.

I'd just like to interject here and point out that I'm not going to say anything to spoil the mood, Chief. I'll just float here and watch. Don't mind me, just sitting here, floating and watching, that's me.
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March 23rd, 2013, 18:11
@Soulbane - Thoroughly agree.

One thing, on the dialogue side, I wouldn't want to see is to be presented with a long menu of options that you have to laboriously select, one after the other, in order to trigger story progressions or quests lurking somewhere in the dialogue tree. Then when you've exhausted the options that character has nothing more to say for the rest of the game… That's a really poor "adventure" style implementation of story aspects, I think and one reason I dislike most adventure/RPG hybrids.

Dialogue options should be mostly exclusive, so if you choose one it sets the game on a different path to if you had chosen another and then you don't have to plough through multiple branching options with every character conversation. Even better I think is to have character interactions and dialogues occurring spontaneously in the world and characters volunteering information rather than just waiting to be clicked on as if they were some sort of branching information terminal (Wiz 8 did ad hoc dialogue rather well, for instance).

So maybe it is to some extent a deficiency in the way some games handle dialogue that tend to turn people off some of the more story driven games.
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March 23rd, 2013, 19:48
Originally Posted by Soulbane View Post

I would not call the story of PS:Torment 'fluff', especially if I was admittedly uninformed and uninterested in stories in general. The quality of it is quite astounding. I sincerely hope that the people who are creating this new Torment game understand what made the interactive story PS:T was great.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the story was awesome, but in my case, it's fluff. Look at it this way, to me the formula to know if I like an RPG game or not is sort of like this:
Score 1-10. Multiply score * weight, add it modifiers.

Story: Weight 1
Music: Weight 0.3
Voice acting: Weight 0.1
Tactical gameplay: Weight 10
(so basically gameplay trumps everything else)

Then of course there are modifiers:
Party based: +25

Turn based: +25
Real time with pause: +10
Real time: 0

Not open world: +10

Multiplayer: -10 (I actually like games less if they have multiplayer, even if I don't use it)

High Fantasy setting: +10
Dark Fantasy setting: +5
Modern setting: -5
Steampunk: -10

Respawning enemies: -25
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March 23rd, 2013, 20:50
@Wolfing - It's strange that you should care about the setting, as that is after all just the backdrop to the story. If you really didn't like stories then surely you'd just be playing chess (its a good game) or checkers or some tabletop war game?
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March 23rd, 2013, 21:32
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the story was awesome, but in my case, it's fluff.
That's a pretty puzzling stance regarding RPGs. But anyway, if that's the case, then story-heavy games like Torment probably aren't for you. There won't be all that much combat in the game anyway, no grind, quality over quantity.

As for systems, it'll have an isometric camera. For combat, Adam and Kevin are designing several systems (phase-based, turn-based and RTwP) and will engage backers in which one to use post-funding. There's a set of core goals each of these combat systems will fulfill which makes us more agnostic to which one exactly ends up being used.
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March 23rd, 2013, 22:20
@wolfing: Sounds to me like you're an avid strategy gamer more than an RPG guy. How do games like Civ or Total War stack up in your opinion?
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March 24th, 2013, 00:53
Originally Posted by Roq View Post
@Wolfing - It's strange that you should care about the setting, as that is after all just the backdrop to the story. If you really didn't like stories then surely you'd just be playing chess (its a good game) or checkers or some tabletop war game?
You see, I have a really bad memory, that's probably why story isn't important to me. What that cutscene revealed yesterday is probably gone from my mind the next day. I see finishing the game as a challenge to be overcome, and that's why I play it. But while I play it, I like high fantasy settings more than dark fantasy, and totally hate steampunk settings. I don't mind the occasional gun in Wizardry or a spaceship in M&M but the overall setting is still high fantasy.

Originally Posted by Brother None View Post
That's a pretty puzzling stance regarding RPGs. But anyway, if that's the case, then story-heavy games like Torment probably aren't for you. There won't be all that much combat in the game anyway, no grind, quality over quantity.

As for systems, it'll have an isometric camera. For combat, Adam and Kevin are designing several systems (phase-based, turn-based and RTwP) and will engage backers in which one to use post-funding. There's a set of core goals each of these combat systems will fulfill which makes us more agnostic to which one exactly ends up being used.
Any of those 3 systems are ok with me, as long as I can think of what to do and issue the commands. Some games have you control one character in real time and the other characters, if any, do their stuff on their own, I don't like that at all. That's why some games that are so popular in this site are nothing to me, like The Witchers, the Gothics, etc.

Originally Posted by Bedwyr View Post
@wolfing: Sounds to me like you're an avid strategy gamer more than an RPG guy. How do games like Civ or Total War stack up in your opinion?
Sort of. I like tactical and grand strategy games but I don't like Real Time Strategy games (like Total War). I used to like Civilization, until I discovered Paradox strategy games (first Rome, then Europa Universalis 3 and now Crusader Kings 2).

What I liked about old RPGs and why I liked games like Pool of Radiance, Wizardry and Might & Magic wasn't the story at all. It was the party creation and management, the growing of the characters from level 1. During battles, what abilities and spells to use. Positioning, resource management. There needs to be challenge too, I don't like 'grind' i.e. battles that are there just to gain experience with little chance of failure.

I also despise twitch in any way, I like to think of tactics and issue the commands. One of my favorite 'RPG' games I've played (to my taste) wasn't even on PC, it was Gladius in the original Xbox (and PS2). It had everything I liked, and it also had a good story that I sort of remember only because I replayed it recently, making it one of the very few RPGs I've ever played more than once.
Last edited by wolfing; March 24th, 2013 at 01:06.
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March 24th, 2013, 01:12
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
High Fantasy setting: +10
Dark Fantasy setting: +5
Modern setting: -5
Steampunk: -10
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
Sort of. I like tactics and grand strategy but I don't like Real Time Strategy games (like Total War). I used to like Civilization, until I discovered Paradox strategy games (first Rome, then Europa Universalis 3 and now Crusader Kings 2).
Have you tired Game of thrones mod for Crusader kings 2?Even if you don't like books/show it's still fantasy game with CK2 mechanics.
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March 24th, 2013, 05:15
Originally Posted by Nameless one View Post
Have you tired Game of thrones mod for Crusader kings 2?Even if you don't like books/show it's still fantasy game with CK2 mechanics.
I tried it when CK2 was new, was cool enough but decided to give it some more time. Maybe when I finish my current Byzantine Empire game I'll give it another go. (And I love the books/show, just wished the author finished them already)
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