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Default Original Sin - Stetch Goals and Music

April 8th, 2013, 07:03
Originally Posted by Roq View Post
Fleshes out the henchmen a bit - why wouldn't one want that?
Because henchmen are supposed to be exactly that - extra hands. The game already features two fleshed out characters, and I'd rather the focus would be on them. When I hear companions I think of contrived reasons for adventuring and awsum cutscene sex.

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April 8th, 2013, 07:55
Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
When I hear companions I think of contrived reasons for adventuring and awsum cutscene sex.
Did Ultima VII have that? Since that's still their namedropping tool of choice. I imagine there can be companions besides Bioware's various iterations.

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April 8th, 2013, 08:08
Originally Posted by Arhu View Post
Did Ultima VII have that? Since that's still their namedropping tool of choice. I imagine there can be companions besides Bioware's various iterations.
IIRC U7 didn't give any reasons as to why your companions are travelling with you. Which is fine by me, but sort of defeats the point of having companions.

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April 8th, 2013, 19:56
Eh, I like the 800k stretch goal, and I really hope they reach it! I'd rather have my "extra hands" to have some personality than be faceless.

NPC schedules and day/night cycles would be beyond awesome too.

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April 8th, 2013, 22:29
To me, the 800k stretch goal is the most attractive one.
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April 8th, 2013, 23:04
Originally Posted by rossrjensen View Post
To me, the 800k stretch goal is the most attractive one.
I agree, although NPC schedules and a day/night cycle would be nice as well.

Not even at 400k yet though with 17 days to go. I hope they get a strong late push.
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April 8th, 2013, 23:07
The last two interest me the most, primarily for immersion reasons. NPC's that are interactive and develop with you, along with NPC's that have their own in-depth routines and habits, makes the game that much more immersive. Zombie henchman mean nothing to me and I will just skip them if the stretch goal isn't reached - I will only like them if they have some actual personality installed. Guess that makes me a mindless bioware fan boy lol … even though I haven't really band on the band wagon since DAO. But I do like in-depth NPC's. I consider them one of the vast improvements brought to games over time.

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April 9th, 2013, 02:47
^ Nothing wrong with fleshed out companions… Observing what Swen had to say in his recent Matt Chat Interview:

Personality customization

Now because we have this cooperative multiplayer mode and we had to ensure that this particular gameplay element was going to be fun, it means it's deeply integrated into the core gameplay.

That allowed us to do something in single player that you haven't seen before (we think). Other than customizing the looks and stats of your party members, you can also customize their personality. That means that if you're playing alone, and you don't want to roleplay both characters, the party member you're not controlling at the time of initiating a dialogue might actually disagree with the choices you make, just like in the example where we had two players control the party members.

As with all new things, at first sight this might sound like folly, but think it through.

Imagine that this would be Ultima VII, and you would have Duprez (a known womanizer) in your party. In our system, whenever the option to flirt would pop up, you could rest assured that Duprez would go for it, even if you might think it'd be a bad idea. If he'd win the discussion, you'd have to deal with the consequences, adding to the fun and potentially showing you a part of the game you'd otherwise not see, because you'd instinctively have answered otherwise.
This isn't like PE or T:ToN, where the games are still in pre pre-production. My only fear, since DOS is basically done and was primarily designed around the aforementioned co-op experience, any companions may feel tacked on, like third wheels or perhaps even lacking comparatively speaking(to the two mains).
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April 9th, 2013, 05:06
Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
IIRC U7 didn't give any reasons as to why your companions are travelling with you. Which is fine by me, but sort of defeats the point of having companions.
U7 didn't need to give reasons…they were all your companions from the previous games….they were the Avatars friends…and they gave lines as to joining you again.

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April 9th, 2013, 10:15
Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
Because henchmen are supposed to be exactly that - extra hands. The game already features two fleshed out characters, and I'd rather the focus would be on them. When I hear companions I think of contrived reasons for adventuring and awsum cutscene sex.
Well Original Sin is a party RPG with strategic combat (in this case turn based), so the main reason for having companions in such games is to give some more depth and strategy to combat. All those Infinity engine games, such as BG 1&2 would have been a lot less fun without companions. I don't see why Original Sin is any different in that respect.

I am not sure why companions should result in "contrived" reasons for adventuring, on the contrary they can add to the story and reduce the number of fedex quests as they do in Baldurs Gate.

The Witcher series manages quite a bit of cut scene sex with just a single playable character; it doesn't seem obligatory that companions should increase that and I don't think that is Larian's intention.

In any case, since the game already has henchmen, making them more reactive and interesting surely makes sense. I imagine that even if the 800K is not reached they will do some work on this, the 800k goal is more to have companions of the same kind of scope and detail as BG2, I think.
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April 9th, 2013, 10:29
Originally Posted by Roq View Post
Well Original Sin is a party RPG with strategic combat (in this case turn based), so the main reason for having companions in such games is to give some more depth and strategy to combat. All those Infinity engine games, such as BG 1&2 would have been a lot less fun without companions. I don't see why Original Sin is any different in that respect.
if they serve to enhance combat, they don't need any personalities beyond that, mirite?

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April 9th, 2013, 10:37
Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
if they serve to enhance combat, they don't need any personalities beyond that, mirite?
Strictly speaking, just for combat, Original Sin wouldn't need any of the NPCs to have personalities; story and dialogue would also be unnecessary. But, I don't think that's the kind of game that many people would want to play… probably including yourself. It's really a very odd position you are taking that in an RPG half of your party should have no behaviour and be totally bland. Can't imagine why anyone would *want* that.
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April 9th, 2013, 10:54
Originally Posted by Roq View Post
Strictly speaking, just for combat, Original Sin wouldn't need any of the NPCs to have personalities; story and dialogue would also be unnecessary. But, I don't think that's the kind of game that many people would want to play… probably including yourself. It's really a very odd position you are taking that in an RPG half of your party should have no behaviour and be totally bland. Can't imagine why anyone would *want* that.
I repeat myself: there are already two fleshed out characters in the party. I would be bummed if "henchmen" are upgraded to "companions", but the dialogue with them doesn't have the same depth as dialogue between the two core members. And that means A LOT of writing in this case. To which one could say, "doesn't matter as long as they can do it with that amount of money". Which would be true, but personally, I'd rather those ressources were spent on something else, because I don't want the focus to shift to other characters, and I personally very rarely get a kick out of PC "personalities" in CRPGs. It's just so rarely done well that I'm better served by leaving their personalities to my imagination.

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April 9th, 2013, 12:01
Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
I repeat myself: there are already two fleshed out characters in the party. I would be bummed if "henchmen" are upgraded to "companions", but the dialogue with them doesn't have the same depth as dialogue between the two core members. And that means A LOT of writing in this case. To which one could say, "doesn't matter as long as they can do it with that amount of money". Which would be true, but personally, I'd rather those ressources were spent on something else, because I don't want the focus to shift to other characters, and I personally very rarely get a kick out of PC "personalities" in CRPGs. It's just so rarely done well that I'm better served by leaving their personalities to my imagination.
What you actually said though was: "I hope you don't meet your 800k stretch goal." If they don't meet that goal then they wouldn't have those resources to put into other things anyway.

In any case, they aren't saying that they are going to make companions the same as the main two player characters. Think of it like this: In BG2 and most other games you roll up a single player character, whereas in Original Sin you can have two player characters. You can play both of those separately or merge them so that you have an integrated party that follows the decisions made by the leader, just as in BG. Then, each of your two characters can additionally have a single companion and a single summons making a maximum party size of six.

So they are not intending to make henchmen into player characters, just to give them some more personality and associated quests. This is no different to other role playing games. So what you are asking is the equivalent of stripping out all the characterization & differentiation from the companions in say BG2. If that's really what you would have wanted for BG2, you'd probably be in a minority of one .
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April 9th, 2013, 12:26
Originally Posted by Roq View Post
What you actually said though was: "I hope you don't meet your 800k stretch goal." If they don't meet that goal then they wouldn't have those resources to put into other things anyway.
Yes, as I already said, this point is moot if we assume that they are right, and it will take exactly this additional amount of money to create the reactivity they want.

So they are not intending to make henchmen into player characters, just to give them some more personality and associated quests. This is no different to other role playing games. So what you are asking is the equivalent of stripping out all the characterization & differentiation from the companions in say BG2. If that's really what you would have wanted for BG2, you'd probably be in a minority of one .
Uhm… you think no one except me would have been interested in a BG2 where you can create your entire party on your own, at the cost of personal quests and "banter" ? Just from reading RPG forums over the years, I think you're wrong. (and I know about making a multiplayer session, but it totally unbalances the game since this was not the devs' primary goal).

Companions in CRPGs are actually a pet peeve of mine. If you go out on a limp by assuming that Larian's scripted PC's will be loads of AWSUM, then you might not get why I'm against that. TTBOMK Larian doesn't have any credentials in this area though, so I'm not at all convinced. I expect cringe-inducing or boring dialogue where the characters' personality is played out in contrived ways to give them some semblance of depth ("I don't like you, you're a meanie, so I won't level up the skills you want me to").
Furthermore, IIRC Original Sin will use a classless system like all Divinity's, which makes differentiation among PC's difficult. Why does my PC have a set personality, but I can choose his skills as I please? OTOH, take away the character customization to enhance believability of the character, and I think you've misplaced your priorities.

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April 9th, 2013, 14:54
I can't think of anything more dull then a bunch of henchman that follow you around like some brain dead zombie robots with zero personality or dialogue. I much prefer some fun interaction and dialogue myself. I can fill in things myself if needed (like in the Icewind Dale or the Might and Magic games where you make your own party) but really prefer characters with some depth like in Torment, BG/NWN games or DAO. Not talking about in-depth relationships - just some fun dialogue, comments, and maybe a side quest or two. But to each there own. Having been around the block way more times than I would like, I know companions are very popular with both older and newer gamers, but I also know many traditionalists like quiet henchmen. Given a choice I would still go with henchmen for combat + personality versus just combat alone. Just adds more immersion.

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Last edited by wolfgrimdark; April 9th, 2013 at 15:49.
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