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Default General News - Always On DRM

April 16th, 2013, 22:19
Rampant Coyote shares his views on 'Always On' DRM in an article I completely agree with.
Hey, kids! You know what you call software that goes out on your computer and does stuff without your knowledge, permission, or … let’s be honest … benefit?
Malware.
Oh, of course, now it’s not “malware” because you gave it permission when you installed the software. Yeah, there are a whole bunch of horrible programs out there that will make your computer run like a 386 and inform every marketer in the world of your bathroom habits that use the same excuse.
The thing is… well, maybe young gamers really are that ignorant, but those who understand the world recognize that games frequently have an online component, even if it’s just updating a leaderboard. No problem. But we also recognize which components are critical to us playing a game. And that’s really limited to playing simultaneously with friends on the Internet, or playing in shared world. Oh, there are minor conveniences or nifty items, like having our saved game in the cloud so we can resume from a different computer (something relatively few gamers actually use, but I occasionally do), or leaderboards, or having the game directly announce news and updates for us. But we recognize that these are not critical to playing the game.
We also recognize that this is nothing more than a control grab by game manufacturers, an attempt to force us to their door so that we can pay for a game like it was a product, but use it only at their discretion as if it was a service. It’s the best of both worlds as a publisher, and the worst of both worlds as a consumer.
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April 16th, 2013, 22:19
If the next xbox has always on built into it as a requirement for all games then I'm out. I don't even need to think about it, I'm just out.

If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?
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April 16th, 2013, 22:51
I have an Xbox and a Xbox 360, but I'm with you. If it has Always On DRM I'm not going to buy the Xbox 720.

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April 16th, 2013, 23:02
Originally Posted by Myrthos View Post
I have an Xbox and a Xbox 360, but I'm with you. If it has Always On DRM I'm not going to buy the Xbox 720.
Ever since King's Quest 1, I've always been first and foremost a PC Gamer. But I've always enjoyed consoles too. I've purchased most of the consoles that have been released during my lifetime and have found enjoyment in many console games.

But this whole 'always on' thing is just a pain in the ass. I know young people probably don't care about this as they lack the 30 year perspective that people such as myself have (not that we're geniuses or anything -we've simply just been alive longer).

I agree with the article. For me, the most troubling thing is that I have zero control over something I paid money for and the publisher has 100% of the control. That is a very bad deal for the consumer.

Single player games should be playable at any time, not restricted by internet issues, server issues, account issues, or other whims of the publisher. And if I want to re-sell my game, I should be able to do so. What's next? Is Best Buy going to declare I can't re-sell my old refrigerator someday because they don't get a cut?

This is inherently wrong and for those who can see that I hope you vote with your wallets - for whatever it's worth - and do not buy into this paradigm. I truly mean it, I'm absolutely 100% committed to not buying any console that forces always on down my throat or even partially down my throat. It's unacceptable.

If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?
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April 17th, 2013, 01:08
Since the PS4 isn't going to have always on drm it is likely that the Xbox 720 won't either since it is likely that having it would hurt their sales since there is a console without it that will already be out.
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April 17th, 2013, 01:27
I wouldn't even consider buying ANYTHING with always on DRM!! (MMO's are different by definition). No X-Box for me.

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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April 17th, 2013, 09:35
Not been able to read the article carefully but it seems to focus on the gaming dimension and not on consumption habits.

The Microsoft person is right: wanting everything online is right, considering his position.

With a $20 Internet connection per month, a consumer buying an always online (hypothetically here) XBox must pay $240 per year to be able to use her console.
$480 every two year. Maybe the retail price of a Xbox.

The way to hide that fact is to dilute the useless online feature over several appliances requiring a useless permanent always on feature.

The more of the appliances, the cheaper the useless always on feature will appear. Which will get customers to demand more and more always on feature on their appliances in order to spread as much as possible the cost of a useless feature from the start.

The march is on.
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April 17th, 2013, 09:49
For me the point is not so much that I'm online always. The points are that they are able to log all my activity on the console and that they want me to pay full price for the game, but not own it.

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April 17th, 2013, 13:03
Those who get used to it basically get trained to get used to it. Err … was that understandable ?

I mean - if people reach a point where they are trained in such a way that they don't even bother anymore … Congratulations to the "game industry" for finally concluding/winning an huge psychological experiment !

Human, the Pavlov Dog.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Pavlov

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World

“ Any intelligent fool can make things bigger, more complex, and more violent. It takes a touch of genius – and a lot of courage – to move in the opposite direction.“ (E.F.Schumacher, Economist, Source)
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April 17th, 2013, 13:25
The comment about "young gamers" is unnecessary and fallacious. People who actively oppose DRM are in the minority even among adult gamers. But that kind of hysteria/ finger pointing isn't new of course. Thor knows that a lot of RPG players buy into the "people have been conditioned to play dumbed-down games" theory, even if the truth is simply that a lot of people wouldn't play deep and complex RPGs even if they were the only video games in existence.


But yeah, DRM. It's kinda bad. I've never used Steam and I never will be forced to do so. I don't play Sim City or Call of Dödel. Start exercising your right to choose, FFS.

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April 17th, 2013, 13:29
I basically AM always online, and I am all for games making cool new use of online features (and yes, i think in principle even single player games can profit from this. E.g. what they did in Demons Soul was pretty cool). I also think that having always online just for DRM is a discourtesy to your customers, and I avoid such games.
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April 17th, 2013, 17:01
The comment about "young gamers" is unnecessary and fallacious. People who actively oppose DRM are in the minority even among adult gamers. But that kind of hysteria/ finger pointing isn't new of course
The point about younger gamers is that they haven't grown up in a gaming environment where being offline is the norm. They are the ones that are easy to convince because they don't know anything else. They are the ones lacking the experience with older games that informs them that the implications being made by publishers is horse crap.

Ignorant of the past, they don't have to be "de-programmed" before they can be programmed.
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April 17th, 2013, 17:09
In that case, let me adjust my tin-foil hat.

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April 17th, 2013, 17:24
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
With a $20 Internet connection per month, a consumer buying an always online (hypothetically here) XBox must pay $240 per year to be able to use her console.
For me, the cost of an internet connection really has nothing to do with my dislike for 'always on' when it comes to single player games. Myrthos captures my position perfectly:

Originally Posted by Myrthos View Post
For me the point is not so much that I'm online always. The points are that they are able to log all my activity on the console and that they want me to pay full price for the game, but not own it.
[emphasis mine]

Originally Posted by Sacred_Path View Post
The comment about "young gamers" is unnecessary and fallacious.
I tried to make it clear that I wasn't jabbing younger players. We're all young once. We're all old once. No point in disparaging myself which is certainly not what I was trying to do with that comment. But RampantCoyote beat me to the punch clearing this up:

Originally Posted by RampantCoyote View Post
The point about younger gamers is that they haven't grown up in a gaming environment where being offline is the norm. They are the ones that are easy to convince because they don't know anything else.
I see the above point play out again and again with my two kids (7 and 10). I tell them SimCity (which they both are in love with) is primarily a single player game but requires that you MUST be online ALWAYS. They look at me like a puppy with its head tilted sideway trying to comprehend why I'm pointing that out and trying to fathom why the tone of my voice is negative about what I'm saying.

I have to explain this to them. My 10 year old gets it somewhat but if I never explained it he'd wouldn't even think about it… he would just believe, 'this is how things work.' He has little perspective because he's only 10 years old. Nothing derogatory about it - he's 10 years old for God's sake.

If I'm right but there is no wife around to acknowledge it, am I still right?
Last edited by TheMadGamer; April 17th, 2013 at 17:38.
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April 17th, 2013, 20:24
Originally Posted by TheMadGamer View Post
For me, the cost of an internet connection really has nothing to do with my dislike for 'always on' when it comes to single player games.
I commented the reaction of the Microprose person reported in the article.

The Microsoft person is right: wanting everything online is right, considering his position.
Every has to be connected in order to hide the fact a customer buys a useless feature.
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April 18th, 2013, 00:33
Like Myrthos, I'm always connected to the net and I can be reached via Skype 24/7, but it costs me a LOT more than $20 a month. However, the cost isn't the issue for me either. I want to be able to play the SP games I buy whenever and wherever I am AND with or without a net connection if I so choose. After all, it's MY game isn't it?? I did PAY for it!!!!
I know analogies are odious, but imagine buying a car which would only run on fuel bought from ONE company. Then consider what would happen if that company either went out of business, or decided to stop making that particular fuel.

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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April 18th, 2013, 01:42
Or decided to change its fuel once every three years. You know, for your improved driving pleasure. You were tired of driving around that three-year old clunker anyway, right?
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April 18th, 2013, 02:02
Exactly, but what choice do you have except to build your own?

If God said it, then that settles it!!

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April 18th, 2013, 08:19
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
I commented the reaction of the Microprose person reported in the article.
That's Microsoft. Microprose has nothing to do with it.
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April 18th, 2013, 10:44
Originally Posted by TheMadGamer View Post
I tried to make it clear that I wasn't jabbing younger players. We're all young once. We're all old once. No point in disparaging myself which is certainly not what I was trying to do with that comment. But RampantCoyote beat me to the punch clearing this up:

I see the above point play out again and again with my two kids (7 and 10).
I was referring to the article, not you.

But I don't think that by "young gamers" he meant 7 year olds, as it's quite obvious they don't understand the issue (or are simply not paranoid about corporations).

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