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Default Anyone playing GW2?

May 3rd, 2013, 06:43
DDO is on my short list of games to play, just haven't gotten around to it yet. I'll probably download it soon and check it out.
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May 3rd, 2013, 06:43
DDO and Lotro are so very different…

DDO is a game that eventually revolves around you setting min-maxing goals to keep yourself committed to the game. There is little endgame, so you are forced into TRing (rerolling the same character) over and over and over for very minimal gains. That or making alts. Either way, you're doing the same mundane quests over and over again… and you (or at least I) come to a point where you ask, "what's the point - this feels more like a chore than a game."

Lotro is a different breed of game. There is significantly more exploration and simply roaming around for the sake of roaming around. If you complete some quests while doing so, all the better. What it truly suffers from is 1) lack of classes and character customization - DDO's strongpoint (and only strongpoint IMO) and 2) absolutely no variety in enemies - those orcs, goblins, uruks, and trolls you fought at level 30? They comprise 99.9% of the entire game; it gets old, so very old after a while.

As for Guild Wars 2, as much as I wanted to like it, it is very shallow and simplistic. Fashion is your endgame (but at least there IS an endgame!) and social skills amongst players are all but non-existent due to how events are set up. Yes, it's quaint that anyone can fulfill any role… but the game suffers for it. It's more of a Massive Zerg Online game than it is an MMORPG.

Those are my thoughts on the three. If I had to rank them, I'd still likely put Lotro on top despite my reservations. I can't really say which would get second place since DDO and GW2 each have their good attributes.
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May 3rd, 2013, 07:15
A massive Zerg game eh? Well you are validating my impressions of group play. In Lotro failure to perform your role in an instance can have staggering consequences for the group. In GW2 it is just anarchy. I don't see a strong social focus in GW2 which I find bizarre. What I'm hoping for from GW2 however is a strong Single Player experience punctuated with some fun group bashes. Certainly *I* play tactically (with admittedly mixed results thus far) but the class I chose is very tactical by nature. The challenge is there and the system has plenty of carrot so it's far from bad news overall. In fact a proper duo could have a great experience here as well. I just wouldn't want to run a PUG.

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May 3rd, 2013, 15:19
I made a quick high res video trying to capture some tactics for my explosive happy Engineer as well as show just how mobile the combat is. Those little buggers look sort of whimpy but they pack a nasty punch, just watch my health. This is why I enjoy the game so much, it feels like a single player game with all that mobility. Check it out in the 720 or 1080 option…

I can't figure out how to embed the video. If anyone knows how I'd be curious :/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IY37gLJwEoQ

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May 3rd, 2013, 18:18
Nice video, Todd. That DOES look pretty cool, with all the mobility involved.
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May 3rd, 2013, 19:28
Thanks. I just got gun turret capability too that does nice crowd control. They are fragile but do kill, and most importantly draw aggro which give me crucial moments to plan the next few seconds or finish a cool down. Pretty soon I'll have bomb drops on dodge, which means I leave a nasty surprise when I roll away. Rolling uses lots of stamina but it makes a huge difference given I have no melee. I'll do another vid in a few levels!

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May 4th, 2013, 09:41
I'm kinda taking a break with GW2 now. Maybe I've stopped for good.

Hard to put my finger on this game - as in REALLY hard. In some ways, it's really the best MMO out there right now - but in other ways, it's among the very worst of them.

My original impression wasn't as inaccurate as I thought - and in fact, I think I was spot on for the most part - EXCEPT I had no idea what kind of love and passion that was poured into crafting the world, the classes, the exploration and so on.

It's simply that the overall design of the game just doesn't jive with me - ultimately. This despite me liking many of their ideas.

I think it has to do with me being a solo player - at least I am in this game. I've had no interest or desire to group up - because there's really no dedicated group content apart from dungeons - and since they don't have a dungeon finder (I have a love/hate relationship with those) - it means a lot of work getting a group together for a dungeon that doesn't really reward you with anything but new skins.

I'm having a very hard time investing myself in the story - even though I realise there's a reason things are happening. But I don't think it's a good idea that I have to go around and talk to NPCs (complete strangers for the most part) to get the idea. While it may be more natural in terms of realism - it doesn't work to drive you forward or to get you invested.

Since the game is very much about experiencing all of the content at your personal whim - I feel like I'm moving from area to area without having any real idea what's going on and why I'm doing things.

While I enjoy the dailies and the map completion - it's more like a job than a calling. It's crossing things off a list - it's not doing what my heart is telling me.

That brings me to the very core of the issue I seem to be having with GW2 - my heart isn't telling me anything. There's absolutely nothing in the game that I really want to achieve. There's no goal I can set for myself - because none of the goals appeal to me that much.

Oh, I'd love to get my hands on the legendary weapons - because I think they're AMAZINGLY well done, visually. But since it's nothing more than a skin - and since there's no way to stand out in the world - I really don't see the point.

There's no world PvP - and WvWvW doesn't engage me. You're just a stranger amongst strangers - and without a guild, it's just pointless.

But it's really, really unfortunate - because if the overall design had appealed to me more - it would have been a fantastic MMO.

If they could make games like Darkfall: Unholy Wars that played and looked like GW2 - I would be in heaven.

Sadly, I just don't think GW2 is for me once I stop to think about it. It has a fantastic flow and feel - and it's just entertaining in a way that's unlike any other MMO out there - but it's also the most pointlessly shallow design in the AAA MMO space.

Games like SWtOR, Secret World, Age of Conan - all have much better storytelling to motivate you to play to the end. Games like WoW, Rift - and so on have a LOT more unique end-game content. Games like Darkfall, EvE, UO - all have what I consider meaningful player-driven sandbox elements throughout the game.

They really need to combine all of those to get the genre to move forward - at least for me.

With all that said, at least I can now appreciate why so many people love GW2. I couldn't see that before - I really couldn't. Now, I see the talent and passion behind the team. It's just that they have a COMPLETELY different idea about what constitutes a meaningful MMO experience. As in, they're almost directly opposite my own position.

I find it really interesting that people can have that amount of skill/talent/passion and yet have such an alternate concept of the genre. I guess that means there really is no right way to make a game….
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May 4th, 2013, 13:43
I can't really contest anything you wrote - other than challenge your perspective. As a traditional MMO you have legitimate issues with it. But what about as a Single Player game with group content and as an action RPG with a strong class/skills system with crafting? I agree it falls short measured against the MMO heavies, but when I modify my perspective and change the measure I see some brilliance here. I think GW2 was designed to be both less and more. As you say, it will not replace the others. Perhaps it was never meant to?

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May 4th, 2013, 14:14
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
I can't really contest anything you wrote - other than challenge your perspective. As a traditional MMO you have legitimate issues with it. But what about as a Single Player game with group content and as an action RPG with a strong class/skills system with crafting? I agree it falls short measured against the MMO heavies, but when I modify my perspective and change the measure I see some brilliance here. I think GW2 was designed to be both less and more. As you say, it will not replace the others. Perhaps it was never meant to?
As a singleplayer game with group content it fails because the narrative isn't compelling and the personal stories are downright awful for the most part.

My personal preference when it comes to a game functioning as a singleplayer game - demands a compelling reason to keep playing until the end, and I also demand an actual ending. I've never understood the appeal of playing a singleplayer game without an ending. So, not only can I not find a good story or any truly meaningful goals - I also face no end in sight - meaning everything I accomplish is very obviously temporary - which is not the kind of feeling I want from a singleplayer game.

As a multiplayer game - I do understand the appeal of competition and achievements requiring coordinated group play. My personal preference when it comes to an MMO demands that there's a reason to level up my character beyond simply getting to the cap. I want perspective - some goals that I consider meaningful. Examples of this would be world PvP with actual objectives and player-driven economies. EVE Online is a good example of this, except the core gameplay is dull as dish water and there's a massive lack of appealing and unique content.

So, GW2 fails in both ways - to me.

The primary issue isn't the content - which is quite fantastic, but the presentation of the content. If the personal story had been compelling in any way (and it REALLY is not) - or the various areas had managed to present actual narratives that you'd want to invest in and follow through to the end - I think I would have played it until cap - and possibly a bit beyond the cap. I've tried talking to all the NPCs involved in events - but all I got from that were bits and pieces, totally lacking the complete picture. Beyond that, the game inspires you to move from area to area - and as such, you quickly forget all about what happened in that other area you just came from. That's been my experience, anyway.

The living story is a very interesting idea - but again, I think the execution is awful. I really tried finding the right people and talking to them, and all I got from that was that the lands were being invaded by some force. Pretty meaningless to me - and I had real trouble figuring out how to progress. You spend more time figuring out how to contribute than you do actually contributing. The fact that all the content is temporary is beyond stupid. Not because the concept of temporary content is bad, because it's actually a great idea for a living story. The problem is that they CLEARLY don't have the resources to create dynamic content that's actually engaging and which lasts for a significant amount of time. Seems to me they're struggling to put out the minimal amount of stuff as it is - and to have it be available for a limited time only smacks of stubborn refusal to realise their own limitations.

Crafting is fun and well done for short-term entertainment - but like 99% of MMOs out there - it utterly fails to do even the most basic concepts of a good crafting system well. One of the most obvious things a crafting system should provide is a way for the crafter to stand out and a way to provide truly desirable items that very few (if any) crafters can provide. Ways to specialise and TRULY customize your items - both visually and in ways that affect gameplay (doesn't have to be much at all). Almost no MMOs understand how to accomplish that - and instead they make every crafter just another redundant self-provider. They put a master blacksmith on every corner, so to speak.

I have no idea why so few MMOs understand how to do crafting well - but GW2 is unfortunately not an exception. Games like SW:G and Vanguard are among the few MMOs that provide(d) a strong crafting component to compliment the other avenues of gameplay.

So, sadly, GW2 is just not my cup of tea.

The best way to describe it is like being a kid in a candy store - but without ever getting exactly the kind of candy you want - and you never feel sated. You just pick some random colorful piece of candy and go "mmm, tasty" - but not THAT tasty. You soon start to wonder why you're eating all that candy when it's never the kind you really want. You start craving being full - even though you never thought you'd want to.

I'm sure that analogy sounds appealing to a lot of people, despite my issues. That's exactly the kind of people who should be playing GW2 - and not those who find it as hollow and pointless as I've come to find it.
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May 4th, 2013, 16:39
Well I've reconciled to what it is and I'm having a blast with it. There are enough peeps around that difficult areas are easy to group on without even saying a word which is nice. I just finished the first area and hit the achievement gift which was cool - got a few nice accessories with decent stat bonuses. What can I say… its a just plain fun. A few more levels and I get some very cool capabilities to unlock in the traits system.

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May 4th, 2013, 17:12
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Well I've reconciled to what it is and I'm having a blast with it. There are enough peeps around that difficult areas are easy to group on without even saying a word which is nice. I just finished the first area and hit the achievement gift which was cool - got a few nice accessories with decent stat bonuses. What can I say… its a just plain fun. A few more levels and I get some very cool capabilities to unlock in the traits system.
Well, have fun then
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May 4th, 2013, 22:53
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
If they could make games like Darkfall: Unholy Wars that played and looked like GW2 - I would be in heaven.
Are you playing it? I am not but from my understanding you are pretty much forced to group in Darkfalls and I thought you are not too big on grouping up? Or is that mainly for GW2?
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May 4th, 2013, 23:13
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
Are you playing it? I am not but from my understanding you are pretty much forced to group in Darkfalls and I thought you are not too big on grouping up? Or is that mainly for GW2?
I haven't played it much - but you're not forced to group up. They've implemented safe zones where you can develop your character to a reasonable degree of initial power without being ganked.

Obviously, being a PvP oriented MMO - you'll face a much harder time going solo, but it's definitely doable. At least, that's what people who've done it are saying.

I'm looking forward to playing it quite a lot - but I know from experience that this kind of game takes a lot of free time, and I don't have that these days.

But from what I've played of it - it seems like a very decent step up from Darkfall.

As for grouping, I'm not against it - I just prefer to play with real life friends, and it's always a challenge to get people together for the same game. Especially with the amount of high profile MMOs out there. It's nearly impossible.

The next game on the horizon where it seems likely to have some friends join me will be Elderscrolls Online.

But the MMO I'm looking forward to the most is ArcheAge. It's the most interesting game in the genre for many years.
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May 4th, 2013, 23:34
Thanks for posting those breakdowns of GW2, Dart. I enjoyed reading them.
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May 4th, 2013, 23:41
The story of this new player made me want to play Darkfalls but not got the time This story is what MMOs are all about,

https://forums.darkfallonline.com/sh…zone-by-a-noob

I prefer to play with friends and I also enjoy PUG as well. You get many idiots and some good players. I have made some good on line friends this way.

ArcheAge - I am on the fence still. Hearing lot of mixed views about it even from some hard core ArcheAge followers who played in the korean betas.
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May 5th, 2013, 00:20
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
The story of this new player made me want to play Darkfalls but not got the time This story is what MMOs are all about,

https://forums.darkfallonline.com/sh…zone-by-a-noob

I prefer to play with friends and I also enjoy PUG as well. You get many idiots and some good players. I have made some good on line friends this way.

ArcheAge - I am on the fence still. Hearing lot of mixed views about it even from some hard core ArcheAge followers who played in the korean betas.
No game is for everyone.

I've heard lots of different things about ArcheAge - but it has a feature-set so rich and a design so bold (considering the competition) that I have absolutely no doubt it's worth checking out. For me, that is.

Also, no matter what people are saying - it does put a rather extreme damper on your enjoyment if you can't understand anything NPCs are saying and if you're playing with heavy lag.
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May 5th, 2013, 00:20
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
Thanks for posting those breakdowns of GW2, Dart. I enjoyed reading them.
You're welcome
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May 5th, 2013, 07:13
Fluent if you get a chance on a free weekend you should give the game a try. No of offense to Dart as his opinions are thoughtful, but he has pretty much stated he is matching his negativity to the hype surrounding the game. Remember he started out liking the game and praising some of the mechanics. Now he is in typical Dart mode. Everything is a failure and a waste of time. Sorry Dart.

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May 5th, 2013, 07:50
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Fluent if you get a chance on a free weekend you should give the game a try. No of offense to Dart as his opinions are thoughtful, but he has pretty much stated he is matching his negativity to the hype surrounding the game. Remember he started out liking the game and praising some of the mechanics. Now he is in typical Dart mode. Everything is a failure and a waste of time. Sorry Dart.
No need to apologize

If you really think I consider everything in the game a failure and a waste of time - then I guess I've not been very clear.

I've been trying to explain why the game is both fantastic and awful - actually. But I'm talking exclusively about myself - and I do appreciate that other people are very different from myself.

It's true that my first reaction after forming my opinion was overly harsh, and it WAS because of the hype. I was disturbed by how blind people seemed to be. As I said, I now understand the appeal to a much larger degree - even if I don't entirely understand the perpetual desire to praise it so much.

Your reaction is surprising - and it strikes me as needlessly unreasonable. As if you're blaming me for ultimately deciding the game isn't for me.

Are you afraid my opinion is contagious and you might catch something if you happen to agree with some of it?

I'd also encourage Fluent to try it. In terms of value for money - GW2 is a great deal almost no matter who you are.
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May 5th, 2013, 11:35
In terms of value for money - GW2 is a great deal almost no matter who you are.
This is indeed very true. GW2 will give you good 100+ hours game play for the price of the box. GW2 is an MMO you play for months (not years) and then stop. Their business model also reflects this.
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