|
Your continuous donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » RPGWatch Feature: Mars War Logs - Review

Default RPGWatch Feature: Mars War Logs - Review

May 3rd, 2013, 14:39
Originally Posted by Dr. A View Post
Yeah, well I don't think any rational human being is going to take criticism from the Codex seriously. Too much bile, not enough substance
Well, but from a purely argumentativ point of view he has a point. The core mechanics you spend most of your time on are solid but the game sucks?

We had a second guy who played the game, btw. He didn't feel misrepresented by the article.
Gorath is offline

Gorath

Gorath's Avatar
Prime Evil
RPGWatch Team

#21

Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 6,813

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 15:52
Still, how is one determining that others should stop writing reviews simply based on the fact they don't agree with the review…and because they claim the reviewer lacks experience.

I don't know how much experience Fluent has, but how does one get more experience if they're not allowed to write? Though of course, experience also can come with harsh comments and one has to be ready for that… but simply saying they should stop writing is a bit much to me.

Steam: Galaad97
Galaad is offline

Galaad

Galaad's Avatar
Sentinel
RPGWatch Donor

#22

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ste-Agathe-des-Monts, QC, Canada
Posts: 413
Send a message via MSN to Galaad Send a message via Skype™ to Galaad

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 16:05
Come on people.

Fluent likes what he likes and he bothered to do a full review of a game we're all looking at. That's more than can be said for most of us around here.

I appreciate any review - even if I don't agree with it. As for this one - I haven't played Mars and have seen nothing to be impressed by as of yet.
DArtagnan is online now

DArtagnan

DArtagnan's Avatar
Waste of potential

#23

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Denmark
Posts: 14,211

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 16:11
Originally Posted by Galaad View Post
Still, how is one determining that others should stop writing reviews simply based on the fact they don't agree with the review…and because they claim the reviewer lacks experience.

I don't know how much experience Fluent has, but how does one get more experience if they're not allowed to write? Though of course, experience also can come with harsh comments and one has to be ready for that… but simply saying they should stop writing is a bit much to me.
True, but this review is representitive of rpgwatch, a web site dedicated to rpgs and so should be very detailed when it comes to what cacaro mentioned (quests quality/variety/multiple outcomes/meaningful choices).

The review should also consider the budget involved in making such a game in the rpg genre and give credit where due to the developers when attempting to do well and maybe suggest improvement to encourage rpg developers in the future.
SpoonFULL is offline

SpoonFULL

SpoonFULL's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#24

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,319

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 16:30
Originally Posted by Gorath View Post
Well, but from a purely argumentativ point of view he has a point. The core mechanics you spend most of your time on are solid but the game sucks?
That is kind of what Temple of Elemental Evil is like. The implementation of the mechanics of the game were great but the story was terrible. Story is a HUGE part of an RPG, IMHO, the MOST IMPORTANT part.
BillSeurer is offline

BillSeurer

BillSeurer's Avatar
Eternal Supreme Dictator

#25

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 1,727

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 16:35
Haven't had much time to game lately but plan on playing this eventually.

As for the review it does seem a bit unbalanced to me. If most of the other aspects were good and fun I probably wouldn't have given so much weight to the story but it was Fluent's review. Who am I to say how important each aspect of the game is to him.

As Dart said I don't have the time to do reviews so I'm not going to bash Fluent for taking his time to do one. Especially since he's new to it.

I guess my biggest shock is that there are actually games Fluent doesn't like.
sakichop is offline

sakichop

SasqWatch

#26

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,156

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 16:39
Originally Posted by BillSeurer View Post
That is kind of what Temple of Elemental Evil is like. The implementation of the mechanics of the game were great but the story was terrible.
Yet questwise it was much better than most people make it out to be. Multiple paths to solve most quests, choices with sometimes delayed consequences, not to mention that in the temple you could align yourself with one of four conflicting factions (or not, depending on what you chose).

So it may have been terrible storywise (though you certainly couldn't expect a story on par with PST from a RPG based on an ancient PNP module), but it's much better if you look at quests. That's exactly my main problem with this review - it mentions an allegedly terrible story, while at the same time completely neglecting core aspect of a RPG: quests.
Last edited by cacaro; May 3rd, 2013 at 16:49.
cacaro is offline

cacaro

cacaro's Avatar
Codexian Spy

#27

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Italy
Posts: 121

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 17:57
[QUOTE=SpoonFULL;1061196111]Fluent, have you tried different paths or dialog trees to see if it leads to different consequences and different endings?[/QU

No. I was uninterested in the story, so branching dialogs and choice and consequence was of little importance to me. Sure, maybe the second ending is a bit better, but I couldn't be bothered to try it because the experience was poor.

To be honest, I don't care one bit about choices and consequences or branching storylines if the core story is done poorly. If I don't care about the story, why should I care about the choices involved in it?

I didn't mention the quests in the review because they were middle of the road, nothing to really see here. A few of them were okay, and maybe I should have talked more about them in the review, but they really didn't stand out and I can't even remember half of them, so that tells you how good they were.

The core mechanics of the game which are fun (combat, skill tree and crafting) do not carry the game through to being good. The most important part (The story) is uninteresting and meandering, so there's no real reason to continue playing. The combat does get repetitive after awhile too unless you kill your enemies. I probably should have mentioned that in the review as well, but sometimes you can't think of everything and something goes unmentioned.

I will try to do better to be more thorough in my future reviews.
Fluent is offline

Fluent

Fluent's Avatar
RPG Fiend
RPGWatch Team

#28

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,129

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 18:04
[QUOTE=Fluent;1061196150]
Originally Posted by SpoonFULL View Post
Fluent, have you tried different paths or dialog trees to see if it leads to different consequences and different endings?[/QU

No. I was uninterested in the story, so branching dialogs and choice and consequence was of little importance to me. Sure, maybe the second ending is a bit better, but I couldn't be bothered to try it because the experience was poor.

To be honest, I don't care one bit about choices and consequences or branching storylines if the core story is done poorly. If I don't care about the story, why should I care about the choices involved in it?

I didn't mention the quests in the review because they were middle of the road, nothing to really see here. A few of them were okay, and maybe I should have talked more about them in the review, but they really didn't stand out and I can't even remember half of them, so that tells you how good they were.

The core mechanics of the game which are fun (combat, skill tree and crafting) do not carry the game through to being good. The most important part (The story) is uninteresting and meandering, so there's no real reason to continue playing. The combat does get repetitive after awhile too unless you kill your enemies. I probably should have mentioned that in the review as well, but sometimes you can't think of everything and something goes unmentioned.

I will try to do better to be more thorough in my future reviews.
Many thanks for your reply. I review academic articles from time to time and keep reminding myself to review them keeping in mind the bigger picture and not on the things that I personally like or dislike.

Your review is now published elsewhere (Gamebanshee for example) which does not provide the developer with any encouragement for future improvement or work and maybe to their detriment.
SpoonFULL is offline

SpoonFULL

SpoonFULL's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#29

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,319

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 18:18
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
No. I was uninterested in the story, so branching dialogs and choice and consequence was of little importance to me.
I think that the branching plot should have at least got a mention, regardless of how good or bad the story itself actually is.

To be honest, I don't care one bit about choices and consequences or branching storylines if the core story is done poorly. If I don't care about the story, why should I care about the choices involved in it?
Interesting choices and a weak storyline aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. I can recall more than a few examples of RPGs with nonexistant/weak plots which, at the same time, offered some pretty interesting choices either during the main quest (such as the above example with TOEE and its -among others- temple faction quests) or the side quests.
cacaro is offline

cacaro

cacaro's Avatar
Codexian Spy

#30

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Italy
Posts: 121

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 18:37
I won't spoil anything, but you do get one major choice later in the game, but both sides of the story are so underdeveloped it's hard to make a meaningful decision. You just pick one to get it over with and continue the rushed story.

You're right though, I should have mentioned this stuff. There's even one single instance I recall that was pretty cool. It involved choices and had a very severe consequence for making the wrong choice. You C&C guys would have loved that.

That's about the only time I recall having some interesting consequences for my choices I made.

I see for future reviews I have to be a little more thorough and report everything in the game, even if I don't find it all that interesting or intriguing, or it's poorly executed, etc.. Like I said, I will try harder on my next one to do just that. I'm actually listening to all your guys' criticism and I guarantee the next review will be much better for you all.
Fluent is offline

Fluent

Fluent's Avatar
RPG Fiend
RPGWatch Team

#31

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,129

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 19:14
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
I won't spoil anything, but you do get one major choice later in the game, but both sides of the story are so underdeveloped it's hard to make a meaningful decision. You just pick one to get it over with and continue the rushed story.

You're right though, I should have mentioned this stuff. There's even one single instance I recall that was pretty cool. It involved choices and had a very severe consequence for making the wrong choice. You C&C guys would have loved that.

That's about the only time I recall having some interesting consequences for my choices I made.

I see for future reviews I have to be a little more thorough and report everything in the game, even if I don't find it all that interesting or intriguing, or it's poorly executed, etc.. Like I said, I will try harder on my next one to do just that. I'm actually listening to all your guys' criticism and I guarantee the next review will be much better for you all.
Many thanks Fluent .
SpoonFULL is offline

SpoonFULL

SpoonFULL's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#32

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,319

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 19:29
Maybe Fluent can, odd as it may sound, revise his review?

Flesh it out further, add more talking points, etc?
Dr. A is offline

Dr. A

Dr. A's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#33

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Singapore
Posts: 801

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 20:03
BTW, I started the game but after playing a few hours it didn't grab me so I put it aside. Maybe this weekend I'll play more.

That's a bad sign for a cRPG. Most of them I end up playing WAAAAY too long at a sitting and for far too many sittings a day.
BillSeurer is offline

BillSeurer

BillSeurer's Avatar
Eternal Supreme Dictator

#34

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Minnesota, USA
Posts: 1,727

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 20:14
I edited my review slightly to add a paragraph about choices and consequences, as well as a bit about combat and how it got repetitive. I think that is the extent that I want to revise this review, but I will keep all suggestions in mind for the next game I review.

Thanks for reading and commenting!
Fluent is offline

Fluent

Fluent's Avatar
RPG Fiend
RPGWatch Team

#35

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,129

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 21:12
Thank you - Fluent.

Don't tell others what they want to hear, stay true to your own opinion.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong. - HL Mencken
HiddenX is online now

HiddenX

HiddenX's Avatar
The Elder Spy
RPGWatch Donor

#36

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NRW/Germany
Posts: 3,770

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 21:49
Absolutely, HiddenX.

I added the bit about C&C because for one, lots of you guys like that sort of thing, and two, it was a "feature" that played a part in the game that I completely ignored in my initial review, so it was good to add a little about that in.
Fluent is offline

Fluent

Fluent's Avatar
RPG Fiend
RPGWatch Team

#37

Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,129

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 22:42
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
Thank you - Fluent.

Don't tell others what they want to hear, stay true to your own opinion.
It is not a matter of telling people what they want to hear, it is a matter of being thorough, competent and honest in your review to include 'all' aspects/features of the game so that the readers can then make up their minds about purchasing the game or not. Similar to reviewing an article, the editors include check sheets with tick boxes that the reviewers must complete irrespective whether the article is acceptable or not.

The reviewer can also inject their own opinions but based on experience rather than personal preference to be professional.
SpoonFULL is offline

SpoonFULL

SpoonFULL's Avatar
Keeper of the Watch

#38

Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 1,319

Talking 

May 3rd, 2013, 23:04
We have a good laugh over at the Codex because of this "review". As another codexer said, the game might very well suck, but its probably not worse than this review. I suggest you Watchers introduce some minimum quality requirements for your content.
talesfromthecrypt is offline

talesfromthecrypt

Traveler

#39

Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 11

Default 

May 3rd, 2013, 23:18
Hey, even if his review skills could use some work - I appreciate the effort Fluent took to write it. You gotta start somewhere right? Thanks Fluent for taking the time to write and adding content to the RPG community.

If other folks think they can do so much better - then go ahead and write one.
Myrkrel is offline

Myrkrel

Myrkrel's Avatar
Sentinel

#40

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Oregon
Posts: 510
RPGWatch Forums » Comments » News Comments » RPGWatch Feature: Mars War Logs - Review
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 09:36.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright by RPGWatch